Whitney Houston: I think I think she's great

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no really!

― mark s, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

there's this best of and it waa on TV and it was just the way she held this note — this is a v.v.v.famous song btw which you all know and prolly totally hate — and held it pure then just started to let it vibrate and i thought that's the best thing i evah heard

even tho i heard the song before a trillion times

― mark s, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That was the old Memorex ad, you silly person.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Poetry of the municipal, right? But remember: just cuz a cowflop looks especially interesting on a certain day doesn't mean it ain't still just a big pile of shit.

― Clarke B., Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Whitney Houston is HORRIBLE. She is FLATFLATFLATFLATFLAT all the time. She belts every single song she sings, didn't learn how to switch registers until her most recent album, and is just all-around awful.

― Dan Perry, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

perhaps it is radical and ground-breaking microtonalism dan.

(i see i am on to a winnah here, opinion- wise)

― mark s, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Whitney's greatest moments: "I Wanna Dance With Somebody", "I'm Your Baby Tonight", "It's Not Right, But It's Okay" and "Heartbreak Hotel" (and what was that one she did with Wyclef?).

I suspect that none of these are the same as the one you refer to, Mark.

― Tim, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

this is where i pay dearly for nevah listening to the words: i am singing back in my head this INCREDIBLY FAMOUS PHRASE hoping a. the sounds will suddenly sound like speech and b. that the speech will be the name of the song

if i fail i will have to buy the LP and defend my love for it

― mark s, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Shit, Tim. I have to admit, I haven't heard "I'm Your Baby Tonight" in probably four years, but I get in my head at least once a month.

― Clarke B., Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Tim is right, except that he failed to mention "My Love Is Your Love" the single, also GRATE.

― Robin Carmody, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

who produced 'it's not right, but it's okay'?

― ethan, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm scared.

― Sean, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Duh, Robin, 'My Love Is Your Love" *is* the one she did with Wyclef. I just couldn't remember the name.

Ethan, "It's Not Right..." is a Rodney Jerkins production - probably his peak along with "Say My Name".

― Tim, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm certain Mark is thinking of "I Will Always Love You", which I fondly call "I Will Always Sing Held Notes A Quarter Tone Flat Because I Suck Ass".

― Dan Perry, Thursday, 7 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Surely none of these songs top "So Emotional"!

― Andy K, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

She has the same birthday as me!

― dave q, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Whitney Houston: great on Material's "One Down" singing Hugh Hopper's "Memories" with Archie Shepp on tenor. Arguably better than the Wyatt version as it has the additional "I want you - I want you IN ME" verse.

Much smarter than she is given credit for. I must revisit "Her Greatest Hits."

There is another very major reason why I like her but I think I will leave that to my colleague Mr Ascender.

― Terry Shannon, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The greatest moment was when La Houston met Serge Gainsbourg.

― helenfordsdale, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yeh but dirty old smelly frog werent ever gonna get in her knicks, woz 'e? Nah the Whitey girl she needs a good man a REAL MAN not that bobi brahn useless cufftickler. Omigod Whiteboy Hoosegow Oi'll be yer baby tonight and any night well you and that Janet Jackson girl anyway cor blimey double savings roight Whitney my darlin' when I come you let me know LOUD AN PROUD and then Janet darlin' can piss in my mouth at the same time OI GETS SAHH EMOTSHUNAL BAY-BEE-HEE innI oh control me gels NOW LIKE or else I need a dustbin lid so you don't notice the yellah like Leabridge council funny geezers about that sort of palaver.

― Chingford Tor Ascender, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Bleurgh! Whitney I find largely responsible for the current style of singing where swoops, warbles and singing everything at full strength are misinterpreted as soulful.

It's Not Right, But Its Okay is the best thing she ever did purely because she exerted some self control.

― mms, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

pointless vibrato like it's a competition to fit as many fucking notes into a word as you can, more notes + more 'emotional' = better. As practiced by so, so many of our present R&B/soul divas. Is this Whitney's fault? I think so.

― misterjones, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Whitney Joins The Jams". "I Want To Dance With Numbers". Both suggest that given less sympathetic production - i.e. something that enormous set of lungs (gor blimey chingford etc.) has to work against - she could be/have been very effective.

― Tom, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Also 'soulful' is a meaningless word anyway though I'm broadly sympathetic to what mms and gavin are saying.

― Tom, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No it's Aretha's fault.

― Terry Shannon, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah ok let's entirely write gospel out of the history of expressive black music, business-as-usual hurrah

of course the question probably arises since i LIKE the way eg beyoncé the robo-diva and others use/abuse/play with this technique, i think it goes right to the heart of the "soulful" problem, esp.in ref the extreme (= rich) tension between modern tuff-girl go-it-alone bling bling techno-materialism and gospel's more traditional yes-i-abase-myself-to-flourish communitarian-humanist persona

― mark s, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Actually, having been listening to the 'I've Never Loved A Man The Way I Love You' album recently, Aretha would have been the example I would have given for the opposite. Certainly at this stage in her career.

I don't know her enough to know whether she became a warbler later.

― mms, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry that took so long to write i end up looking snarky at the wrong people

mahalia jackson is my pick for blame

― mark s, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

prefer the former as well u kno.

But Aretha = Coltrane = zzzzzzz.

Stretch a point for Whitney = David Murray.

Which means of course that Mariah = Evan Parker.

― Terry Shannon, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Her greatest moment was in a French tv show when Serge Gainsbourg said to her in front of the camera: "I want to fuck you." Her reaction was utter disbelief.

― alex in mainhattan, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

well yes she was surprised, but she laughed in astonishment (rather than got bolshy), so i think she carried it off pretty well: i would not have touched serge gainsbourg with tor ascender's penis, frankly

actually WH's hugely effective pan-sexual shtick = majorly part of what she is/does (unlike say aretha), so where does this fit in also? (i can see where w.aaliyah or mary j.)

― mark s, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"i think it goes right to the heart of the "soulful" problem, esp.in ref the extreme (= rich) tension between modern tuff-girl go-it-alone bling bling techno-materialism and gospel's more traditional yes-i- abase-myself-to-flourish communitarian-humanist persona"

Wahey! I've always wanted to say that! Or something like that.

Nice one Mark. The sound of nails being hit on the head there.

Still can't stand the warbling tho. I think it's telling that so many of the auditionees on Pop Stars/Idol gave it that full strength ullulating vibrato schtick. I yee I weeyal ALLWAYZE luhuvv YOO-HOoo- ooooOOOOoooooOOOooooO It's ver new paradigm, innit.

Sham really as I think it grates like fingernails down the blackboard of my soul.

― misterjones, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"I Wanna Dance With Numbers" = great because it gives Whitney's vocals a more poignant edge. The problem with quite a few of Whitney's big moments ("The Greatest Love Of All", "I Will Always Love You") is that they sound too self-contained, too self-confident even when they're weepy (see also Celine Dion). With such a chill musical counterpart undercutting the vocal though, the Girls On Top bootleg turns "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" into the R&B "How Soon Is Now?"

― Tim, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Whitney's warbling vibrato almost certainly comes from her mum, Cissy, who was lead singer w/ the fabbo sixties soul-gospel group The Sweet Inspirations.

― Andrew L, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Celine Dion is MILES BETTER than Whitney Houston, precisely because of the control issue brought up by Tim.

― Dan Perry, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, and another thing; singing without vibrato is unnatural, unhealthy, and wrong. My issue with Whitney isn't her vibrato; it's that she substitutes vibrato for SINGING ON-PITCH.

― Dan Perry, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

singing without vibrato is unnatural, unhealthy, and wrong

General disgust with Whitnesque melisma would be enough to change that 'law' (which is in fact no more than a fashion) though, and usher in an age where everybody sang like Robert Wyatt. Hail the new puritans!

― Momus, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm up with helen on whitney's greatest moment, 2nd greatest moment s is the tears and stoned shit she pulled when she met bobby b outside the jail gates...like they've ever fucked.

― goeff, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(I will not get into a vocal technique argument on the Internet. I will not get into a vocal technique argument on the Internet. I will not...)

― Dan Perry, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dan - re: Celine Dion. What are you talking about? My point was: at her worst Whitney is in the same boat as Celine. Celine is certainly not miles better than Whitney. Celine has precisely one good song: "Falling Into You".

My point admittedly is only partly about vocals and partly about songs/arrangements.

― Tim, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The show where Serge and Whitney meet with sound & lyrics transcribed. I think Whitney is quite shocked and does not take it with humour Mark. Btw Serge was totally pissed here.

― alex in mainhattan, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Celine IS miles better than Whitney because she doesn't sing flat and she has more control over her voice, Tim. They have similar singing styles and Whitney has better songs, but Celine is an infinitely- better singer.

― Dan Perry, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Let me just say that Aretha is the greatest singer of all time. FACT.

― Sean, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

What, better than Patti Page? ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Well yes, Aretha is miles better than either of them. If I was going to list the female singers better than Celine and Whitney, my fingers would fall off. Anyway Sean, I though you said Sarah Vaughn was the greatest singer of al time...?

― Dan Perry, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Singing with vibrato all the time = dud. Straight tone + bringing in the vibrato strategically = classic.

― Jordan, Saturday, 9 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

four years pass...

For heavens sake, i love Whitney Houston and she does not sing flat, and having discussion of vocal technique.. i think u have no idea what you are talking about (Dan Perry), for starters, i do think Celine Dion is better than Whitney Houston, but not by a lot. Whitney Houston does not sing FLAT! It's either your hearing, or i haven't heard the song she has sung flat in. Another thing, Whitney Houston's rendition of "I will always love you" is exactly that, her rendition, she can decide to sing it anyway she likes, and with the amount of people who know her for that song, means she can do bloody well what she likes. And Celine Dion has some amazing songs, but i do prefer Whitney's songs overall.

― Matthew Canham, Monday, 15 May 2006 03:54 (nineteen years ago)

!!!

― Emily B (Emily B), Monday, 15 May 2006 04:02 (nineteen years ago)

Dan Perry may have no idea about vocal techniques, but I'm sure he can tell us if whitney's a crack smoking self pleasuring ho... can't you Dan? If not, Ned will surely know (if he really loves me)

― Queen Gettaouttamycrankbobby, Monday, 15 May 2006 08:20 (nineteen years ago)

two months pass...

Dear me.

Anyway, Dan, above:

I can't imagine what Dan is talking about.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 3 August 2006 20:48 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

Pretty good thread.

― _Rockist__Scientist_, Monday, 21 April 2008 01:55 (seventeen years ago)

The DJ Copy "Diva Mixtape" bootleg of It's Not Right is another strong tick in this column - possibly helped by her giving a (by her standards) restrained performance devoid of her usual grating "performative" tics. Not sure if I've ever heard the original though! - but I did download an official house remix that wasn't nearly as effective.

― energy flash gordon, Monday, 21 April 2008 03:51 (seventeen years ago)

ten years pass...

Rahawa Haile is a genius

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmO2XkzFHGC/

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 21:25 (six years ago)

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