Is there something musically fundamentally WRONG with the high notes that Mariah Carey attempts/plays around with?

That doesn't make it right! .

I would have to say YES!! Of course!

She doesn't sing properly (i.e. from the diaphram (sp?)), so I think that makes them "musically fudamentally WRONG".

Plus, it hurts my ears.

But that's exactly my point. I mean when you hear her do that, it's obvious that we are SUPPOSED to give her credit for doing that. Never mind that it adds absolutely nothing emotionally or creatively to the melody or theme of the song. It's kindof like those speed metal guitarists my brother used to tell me about who just want to play as fast as they can just for the sake of doing it. I would wager that notes as high as that are probably a lot easier for trained women singers to reach than we might think, it's just that most such women have the good sense not to squeeze them into silly lovey dovey pop songs. Even Kate Bush in her early days, as high as the notes she sang back then, didn't even dare to venture where Ms. Carey is determined to make her home. Does it mean the sex was 5 times better than any human being could experience because she hit those notes? Does it mean she loves that guy any better or more than most people do in committed relationships? I doubt it. Take the fairy wings off and get real. Music is a language and there is such a thing as an out of place word.

Let me get this straight...she called an album "Charmbracelet"? FFS.

you fuck with mariah you fucking with me so make sure you know because it's gon get swedish in here!!!

-- Lord Custos Omicron (l.custo...), July 17th, 2005.

Hey, I just meant singing really high with your throat is no more fundamentally right or wrong than singing really low with your throat and your esophagus.

Yes! We're talking R&B here, and Mariah's at least 50% classicist. A given R&B (/Mariah) song's vocal (interpretation) is almost always its most important component, not just because she's upholding a soul tradition, but also because her function is to be a diva. Her high notes add to her frazzled, larger-than-life (,camp) persona, and like it or not, there are many examples of her using them to shade in her emotion. When words fail and become even too trite for her, Mariah still has her notes as kind of a thesaurus.

Yeah, Mariah's often dim (which I forgive but wouldn't hold against anyone else for not forgiving), but she is not without nuance. I mean, c'mon, she has, like, the best voice in the world and she knows a thing or two about what to do with it.

But that's exactly my point. I mean when you hear her do that, it's obvious that we are SUPPOSED to give her credit for doing that. Never mind that it adds absolutely nothing emotionally or creatively to the melody or theme of the song.

This is a blindingly ignorant, uneducated, nonsensical criticism that pretty much marks out the person saying as a musical Luddite who should never, ever, ever be listened to or taken seriously. Study some classical music and some gospel music and then come back when you've got a better handle on the music you're trying to criticize.

NOTE TO ALL SINGERS/VOCALISTS: Don't whisper on every single song; it pisses your fans off.

And, yeah, she's still got chops, though, she sometimes flaunts them outrageously (I'm like, "Stop screaming at me" during "Stay the Night"). Also, some of the more vocally ambitious tracks tend to be like quilts of really good takes (I don't think she sings two lines of "Mine Again" successively on the album).

The new single, "Shake It Off," is pretty whispery. I dunno, though, it breaks my heart when she says, "You'll never ever find a girl who loves you more than me." Also, some high notes, so gather 'round, haters.

I haven't heard "Shake It Off" too many times but what I remember of it has her phonating a lot more than she does on, say "Through The Rain" or the track she did with Flipmode (both of which had me running for the hills).

You're probably right, and at the very least, "Shake" is a greater mix of "on" and "off" breath. I mean, I love it regardless, but I can see how it'd drive people less invested in her character carayzay.

Mariah Carey, of course, was all of those things, the chart-reigning beneficiary of not committing to a side. Its tempting to box her into W.E.B. Du Bois theory of double consciousness to excavate how the discord between white societys maligning eye and her own self-image affects her psyche vis a vis her music, but its not quite right and damn near impossible, anyway (Du Bois theory spoke only about blacks, and not necessarily about those from a mixed race background). Mariah has more eyes on her than just whiteys. More accurately, she's a woman splintered- attempting to keep many demographics happy. But at the same time, she suffers from the effects of what Polish writer Witold Gombrowicz (via translator Danuta Borchardt) writes about in Ferdydurke in his Nth-degree revamp of double consciousness: a whole ocean of opinions, each one defining you within someone else, and creating you in another mans soul. "It's as if you were being born inside a thousand souls that are too tight-fitting for comfort!"

Black people -- they so crazy!