please tell me about the scientological brainjazz of chick corea

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are there any resources on the web for exploring the relationship between scientology and his works with return to forever / early ECM albums / miles group work / etc??

this is a serious question.

vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 23:48 (twenty years ago)

I've noticed a big five percenter influence in his work.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

Have you ever noticed weird shit like the fact that every musician ever is into weird shit? You're talking about Chick Korea and practically everyone he's affiliated with is part of some weird religion. Like Jim O'Rourke and John Zorn doing tributes to Kenneth Anger / Aleister Crowley? Every band that was ever any good has at least one member who's into some shit like that, even a seemingly intellectual band like Sonic Youth.

David Oz, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 00:09 (twenty years ago)

I almost forgot. That's why the fundies are right about rock n' roll. Or in this case, jazz, too.

David Oz, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 00:10 (twenty years ago)

Like Jim O'Rourke and John Zorn doing tributes to Kenneth Anger / Aleister Crowley?

neither of them are satanists.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 00:12 (twenty years ago)

I resent the implication.

David Oz, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 00:18 (twenty years ago)

you made it, duh!

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 00:21 (twenty years ago)

Scientology doesn't cure crater acne, obviously.

maria b (maria b), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 00:22 (twenty years ago)

The most recent Chick Corea & the Elektrik Band album was "To the Stars," based on an L. Ron Hubbard sci-fi story. Hubbard wrote during the "golden age of sci-fi," which wasn't so much a golden age, as an age when writers were paid a penny a word. Hubbard got around this by writing thousands and thousand upon thousands of words. Profuse doesn't do him justice.

As a result, his sci-fi, some of which is fair to good, was verbose and much longer than it had to be. "To the Stars" is exactly like that. A concept album based on a short story about a trip on a rocket ship, with interludes -- way too may -- devoted to looking out the porthole at "the stars." ZZZZZZZZZZ.

Return to Forever's "Romantic Warrior" doesn't show any L. Ron Hubbard or obvious scientology influence. For a multitude of reasons, it's a much better record. My perception is the Elektrik band is supposed to be Return to Forever with L. Ron Hubbard sci-fi overlays.

Not worth the price of admission.

George Smith, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 01:06 (twenty years ago)

you made it, duh!

No, I didn't. I just said the fundies are right, which is true, according to their paradigm, which says that Satan is a sneaky devil and all other religions are the work of the devil.

David Oz, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 01:16 (twenty years ago)

... and that rock n' roll is the work of the devil, turning young people away from Christ, of course.

David Oz, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 01:19 (twenty years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000658MV.01.TZZZZZZZ.jpg

Spoooooooooky, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 01:26 (twenty years ago)

http://www.ecmrecords.com/Images/cover/ECM/1000/E1009g.jpg

These Robust Cookies (Robust Cookies), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 02:43 (twenty years ago)

But in general, there's probably not all that much to look for. Scientology values creativity (and worldly success) highly, a lot of people like gurus and "spiritual direction," it was the 70s etc.

These Robust Cookies (Robust Cookies), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 02:46 (twenty years ago)

even a seemingly intellectual band like Sonic Youth.

Tell me more about this plz >_>

Scientology is an offshoot of Crowleyism, which in itself was very popular in the 60's with the "do what thou wilt" attitude of moral relativism and the black majik stuff. For more information on those two you should check out L Ron Hubbard Jr.'s interview with Penthouse in 1983 (which should be around one of these topics, I think the Katie Holmes scientology one to be particular).

Know what I want to see a topic on? The weird link between arty post-modern bands and their obsessions with homosexuality, the occult, and Nazism. Coil, David Bowie and the industrial types come to mind immediately but usually when there is one of those you will find at least one other trait. Kenneth Anger was mentioned earlier and coincidentally was going to have Coil score one of his new films before a member died. Crowley himself was a huge pervert and was known to participate in many sex acts which are still illegal today I believe.

It is important to note also that one of the first things Scientologists do is make you admit to all of your kinky sexual sins and fantasies as part of their notorious auditing process. Is it any coincidence that their most famous members are notorious for scandalous sex lives (Cruise, Travolta, Errol 'If it moves I'm a a tappin' it' Flynn)?

I also can't think of a famous rock artist that professes a love of Crowley and didn't have at least one homosexual member or a semi-famous gay rumor (the only one I can think of is Black Sabbath and Sting, although he just mentioned Crowley off hand once I think)

I don't know why there is also a fasciniation with Nazism among many of these people but I suppose it might be through the occult and homosexual background of the Nazis.

*Note: I'm not making causation but merely correlation between some of these things. Many of the correlations like David Bowie being interested in all of these things just popped into my head as I was writing it.

I think I should just make a separate topic. I didn't mean to wander off a bit.

Cunga (Cunga), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 02:48 (twenty years ago)

'Errol 'If it moves I'm a a tappin' it' Flynn'

he was a Scientologist?

latebloomer: lazy r people (latebloomer), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 02:57 (twenty years ago)

According to L. Ron Jr.


http://www.ronthenut.org/penthous.htm

Cunga (Cunga), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 03:28 (twenty years ago)

Current 93 / Boyd Rice / Death In June queer nazi connections, pls?

Jay Watts III (jaywatts), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 13:44 (twenty years ago)

Wait, what member of Led Zepplin is gay, again?

Tigerstyle Shamanic Vision Quester (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 13:58 (twenty years ago)

This must be a joke, but okay...

Current 93 = Thelemic egregore (Crowley, OTO)

Boyd Rice = (Magister of Church of Satan.) Boyd Rice has gained noteriety through his work as a musician (under the name NON), prankster, countercultural instigator, and misanthropist. Being a high ranking member in the Church of Satan, a long time associate in the Partridge Family Temple, founder of the infamous Abraxas Foundation, and currently working on a book on the Luciferian Legacy of the Holy Grail, Mr. Rice has put the occult back into culture.

Death In June = David Tibet was a member of 23 Skidoo and formed Current 93 in 1982. After meeting Pearce at a club in 1983, Tibet began working with Death in June. Upon meeting Tibet, Pearce began to devote more of his time to various occultic disciplines that markedly affected his approach to composing music. A longtime practioner of rune magic, Pearce introduced them to Tibet. Tibet similarly had been long interested in ceremonial magick and implemented occult concepts into his early recordings with Current 93. He contributed to two of Death in June's more acclaimed LP's: The World that Summer (1986) and Brown Book (1987). He continued his work with Death in June, through 1992's apocalyptic folk LP, But, What Ends When the Symbols Shatter?. Pearce also contributed to Current 93 projects, including the pagan folk LP, Swastikas for Noddy, released in 1988. http://www.answers.com/topic/death-in-june

--- By my Sonic Youth, I was referring to Jim O'Rourke.

David Oz, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

b-b-but Sonic Youth put out a track called "Satan is Boring"

Tigerstyle Shamanic Vision Quester (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:07 (twenty years ago)

All the World Serpent boyz strike me as very queer, esp David Tibet when I met him on a train.

Baaderonixx cancels each other out (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

What does this mean: Current 93 = Thelemic egregore (Crowley, OTO)?

Baaderonixx cancels each other out (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:12 (twenty years ago)

"Implemented occult concepts" = "bareback orgies"

Jay Watts III (jaywatts), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:13 (twenty years ago)

b-b-but that stuttering joke is old and lame. Does occult = Satan? Only to a fundie. Are you a fundie?

David Oz, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:13 (twenty years ago)

no, but I do like to have my cock sucked by trollish fat goths. WOULD YOU KINDLY INDULGE ME???

Tigerstyle Shamanic Vision Quester (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

I'm straight, 150 lbs, 5'9" and handsome with normal guy style. Sorry, weirdo.

David Oz, Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:21 (twenty years ago)

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Tigerstyle Shamanic Vision Quester (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:30 (twenty years ago)

And a supplementary question, what's with the Current 93/David Tibet/Death In June/Nico (let's include her, too) love of classic European sculpture and/or white masks?

Jay Watts III (jaywatts), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:32 (twenty years ago)

Some research on C93 after reading this thread informed me that David Tibet now goes by the name of David Michael and shall soon release an album featuring Will Oldham, Marc Almond and Charlemagne Palestine.

Baaderonixx cancels each other out (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

really?

Tigerstyle Shamanic Vision Quester (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

oh yeah and William Basinski too!

From Durtro: It now seems the full line-up on this album will be: David Michael, Michael Cashmore, Steven Stapleton, Ben Chasny, Marc Almond, Cosey Fanni Tutti, Will Oldham, Shirley Collins, Andria Degens, Antony, Baby Dee, John Contreras, William Breeze, James William Hindle, William Basinski and Charlemagne Palestine.

Baaderonixx cancels each other out (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:45 (twenty years ago)

threepenny opera?

Tigerstyle Shamanic Vision Quester (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 14:47 (twenty years ago)

Hubbard: No research at all. When he has answered that question over the years, his answer has changed according to which biography he was writing. Sometimes he used to write a new biography every week. He usually said that he had put thirty years of research into the book. But no, he did not. What he did, reaily, was take bits and pieces from other people and put them together in a blender and stir them all up --and out came Dianetics! All the examples in the book --some 200 "real-life experiences" --were just the result of his obsessions with abortions and unconscious states... In fact, the vast majority of those incidents were invented off the top of his head. The rest stem from his own secret life, which was deeply involved in the occult and black-magic. That involvement goes back to when he was sixteen, living in Washington. D.C. He got hold of the book by Alistair Crowley called The Book of Law. He was very interested in several things that were the creation of what some people call the Moon Child. It was basically an attempt to create an immaculate conception --except by Satan rather than by God. Another important idea was the creation of what they call embryo implants --of getting a satanic or demonic spirit to inhabit the body of a fetus. This would come about as a result of black-magic rituals, which included the use of hypnosis, drugs, and other dangerous and destructive practices. One of the important things was to destroy the evidence if you failed at this immaculate conception. That's how my father became obsessed with abortions. I have a memory of this that goes back to when I was six years old. It is certainly a problem for my father and for Scientology that I rememoer this. It was around 1939, 1940, that I watched my father doing something to my mother. She was lying on the bed and he was sitting on her, facing her feet. He had a coat hanger in his hand. There was blood all over the place. I remember my father shouting at me. "Go back to bed!" A little while later a doctor came and took her off to the hospital. She didn't talk about it for quite a number of years. Neither did my father.

latebloomer: lazy r people (latebloomer), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 15:51 (twenty years ago)

four years pass...

just picked up stanley clarke's "children of forever"

EXTREMELY SCIENTOLOGICAL

http://991.com/newGallery/Stanley-Clarke-Children-Of-Forev-314490.jpg

moonship journey to baja, Thursday, 13 August 2009 02:32 (sixteen years ago)

ten years pass...

"Create space — then place something in it." According to Hall of Fame drummer Ed Soph, @ChickCorea typed this leaflet up on his old Smith-Corona typewriter, and used to hand it out at clinics. (H/T Rare Jazz Photos) cc: @LettersOfNote pic.twitter.com/BRBaWKpZ2s

— Nate Chinen (@natechinen) February 6, 2020

j., Thursday, 6 February 2020 07:14 (six years ago)


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