How much money do you think a musician such as, say, Ted Leo makes?

And I read that Ted Leo still lived with his parents, so that tell you something.

KIDS, STAY IN SCHOOL!!!

It's pretty rare that an independent musician makes enough money from their music to not have a day job.

Here.

$82,374.

KIDS, STAY IN SCHOOL!!!

He used to live with his parents. Now he's married. And he graduated from the Universtiy of Notre Dame in '93, so he's no drop-out.

I read somewhere that he's thinking of going back to grad school and then maybe teaching. Apparently he's burned out; 15 years of near constant touring in a van could do that to you.

One of my friends posed this question to Rob Crow of Pinback around 2001 and he said that it all added up to approximately minimum wage.

I find that hard to believe in Ted's case......but maybe you're right.

plus whatever he's getting in advances.

minus whatever it costs him to make an album.

plus t-shirt sales.

i'll assume touring is otherwise pretty much a wash, but maybe i'm wrong on that.

plus BMI or ASCAP royalties, but i have no idea how they figure in college/noncommercial airplay. but there's probably at least a pretty penny there.

plus, if he does in fact live in his parents' house and he wants to move out, he should get some songs in some movies or, better yet, in some commercials.

but the songwriters are getting paid, through bmi/ascap, aren't they?

Oh, right.

if he does in fact live in his parents' house

He doesn't.........anymore (at 34/35 years old).

Steve Earle said he makes about $300K a year

Wow.........I guess that's not doing half bad, but somehow I assumed established touring musicians like him would be making more than that....

Here's another take: what about folks like Superchunk (or more specifically Mac and Laura) who own their own label? I'd imagine Merge has been doing quite well in recent years. I wonder if Jon and Jim get anything off that?

Yeah, seriously. I mean, "The Problem with Music" to thread. I seem to remember reading an interview with Yo La Tengo recently where they said they were only able to make a living off music alone about five or six years ago.

xpost

In theory, yes you're right, not sure how often it is reported though.

Fugazi just can't catch a break from being coopted!

So who knows, some big mainstream artist could record a Ted Leo/Pornographers/YLT/etc. tune 10 years from now and the cash could start rolling in.

the interview where earle talks about how much he makes is very endearing.

not that talk talk were exactly indie, but i bet no doubt's cover of "it's my life" resulted in a big windfall for mark hollis. i like it when things like that happen.

the best story is when mississippi fred mcdowell got a check for more money than he'd ever seen in his life when the stones covered his "you got to move" on "sticky fingers."

there is no chance whatsoever that mtv isn't reporting every single published song it plays. none. zero. zilch. even if they play a split second of it, they're reporting it.

I think when a band owns the publishing rights to their own music, they are more likely to go for the salary approach. They also stand to make more from licensing to labels and TV shows (OC!) I remember something about The Datsuns doing something like this.

That sound's about right. I know a band who are signed to a major-label subsidary, and that's what they make.

probably true but apparently they don't pay, at least according to a friend who has had one of their songs used similarly. apparently you're expected to be grateful for the exposure.

Publishing deals are certainly helpful, too.

Two things with that:
-- He's got a 20-plus-year career going, and as far as I know all his albums are still in print, which means that part of that money is the cumulative weight of a back catalog that still probably sells decently (i.e. every year some number of people discover Steve Earle and go back and buy Guitar Town, etc.).

-- He's had several people cover his stuff, including Travis Tritt's huge hit version of "Sometimes She Forgets," which probably still gets played on country radio more than all of Steve Earle's own recordings combined, plus songs scattered across albums by Emmylou Harris and a bunch of other people, so he's got a decent sideline in residuals there.

Plus all his touring, etc. I think he's probably a case of careerism paying off -- it can add up over time, if you manage to keep going. (Which of course he almost didn't.)

That said, my guess is that Leo is making it a least to the borderline of long-term sustainable success.

Berman: Last year, I made about $16,000 from the four records that are in print. Drag City takes care of its own. Everybody who makes records for Drag City is getting the most money possible. The Silver Jews have never bought an ad. Ever. Well, once in Alternative Press in 1994, for The Arizona Record, but it was in the back and...

The last year I made a record, 2001, I made $45,000 from Drag City. This upcoming year I hope it will go up to that level again. In addition, I read at colleges multiple times a year at $1,000 a shot. Various writing projects bring in money. Actual Air brings in $1,000 a year nowadays. I get a dollar a copy, and they've sold a goodly number. And Rob Bingham gave me a $10,000 advance to finish it.

BMI checks are a couple thousand a year. Another couple thousand from foreign licensees. I made a movie with the artist Jeremy Blake last year. There are a couple movies with [Silver Jews'] songs in them that keep playing on Scandinavian cable at 3 a.m., apparently for the last four years.

drew - thanks for joining in and sharing your insight.

According to Maggotron, they pay like clockowrk. They used much of his stuff on the 'making the video' series.

Considering that Drew has been posting on the board for a couple of years now, there's a reason we didn't flinch.

So (for pure, unadulterated enjoyment) let's add up what he laid out in his answer and see what he may make this year:

($16,000/year for all 4 previous albums) + ($45,000 for Tanglewood Numbers from Drag City) + (let's say $5,000 for 5 readings at colleges) + ($1,000 for Actual Air) + (let's say $2,000 from BMI) + (let's say $2,000 from foreign licenses) = $71,000 (w/out taking into account tour revenue)

La la la I can't hear you la la la.

-- hstencil

If I'm not mistaken, for many of us here it actually IS our business!

This phenomenon is called "The Malkmus Effect".

Perhaps they changed the way they do it since this was a while ago, but when I was there, there were music bed tapes that would float around the production dept and be used for most of the shows that were produced there (not Real World, etc. but the VJ stand-up shows, Direct Effect, etc, TRL has its own bed tapes). The tapes had a life span of a month or two (which is why you hear the same beds over and over, if you're paying attention.) For long-form shows like weekend specials (I'm thinking Spring Break specials for instance), there were forms to fill out with every single music bed that had to be sent to the Rights and Clearances dept. But I don't ever remember filling out a single one of those for the daily shows that I worked on. For instance, I doubt TRL fills one out everyday. I could be wrong, of course. Also, it was common knowledge (rightly or not) that any song with a video that was sent to MTV for air (whether it ever aired or not) could be used unrestricted.