Taking Sides: Mick Jagger's solo career vs. Pete Townshend's solo career

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which is better? which is worse? which has done the pop politic more harm? which is the bigger embarrassment in relation to the group from whence either sprang? (and please, no kneejerk "I hate the Stones" or "I hate the Who" or "I hate both, who cares?" stuff here, please, if you can possibly help it.)

― M. Matos, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd actually argue that Pete Townshend's solo years have been more thoroughgoingly embarrassing, which is saying something. for one thing, no critics except Jann Wenner and co. have ever really given Mick any real respect, while crap like Empty Glass and All the Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes actually made it onto best-of- year lists that weren't even Rolling Stone's! for another, a lot of the Stones's chemistry has always come from the writing partnership of Mick & Keef; it only follows that you get less than half of that when you take one away (the partner-himself minus the intangibles), plus the two of 'em haven't written anything good together in god knows how long). Pete, on the other hand, might have had a good band but the songs (that he wrote, Entwistle fans) are all him, arrangements and everything. granted, the Who already sucked by the time of Empty Glass (I have already posited my theory on this site that "Squeeze Box" is the most embarrassingly dumb song in the English language), but you'd think ridding himself of that albatross would have freed him up to do something decent, wouldn't you? (you probably do, don't you? you probably think it is, isn't it? forget it. I'm sorry I brought it up.)

― M. Matos, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Mick Jagger scores no points whatsoever for any of his solo work. And his little Jane Fonda workout videos actually take him into negative territory. (On the other side of the duo, Keef gets many points for his solo work, which is better than anything the Stones have done in the last 25 years.)

Pete Townshend's solo career has been very disappointing, but with a few glimmers of hope. "My Baby Gives it Away", "White City" and maybe a few others ... not great songs, but sometimes listenable .. Probably just because I always liked Pete's voice much more than Roger's - so I have always been a little elevated by songs where Pete sings.

― Dave225, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Townshend's _Scoop_ and _Another Scoop_ are both super-fun and mostly unpretentious (and go listen to "Politician" from Scoop--somebody has to cover that someday!). _Deep End Live_ has its charms. And beyond that, Townshend wins because his failures are overambitious (poor guy, still flogging Lifehouse), as opposed to Jagger's, which are lazy.

Also, I think Pete's pretty embarrassed about "Squeeze Box" too.

― Douglas, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I got no dog in that fight... but a couple years ago I heard some countrified piano-based Jagger tune (I think produced by Rick Rubin) that was quite good... a relaxed drawl in the Exile vein... the only post-Stones I've heard that was good. And yes, I did say "post-Stones."

― Andy, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i say pete

― Gage-o, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hearing Entwhistle say "Squeeeeezzzzeee Bocksah" on bootlegs makes the song worthwhile. Besides, Pete will always have "Let my love open the door" which is enough to redeem every washed-up rocker ever.

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Townshend never marched around the Top of the Pops studio like some kind of paedophile. Therefore, Townshend it is.

― Robin Carmody, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

poor guy, still flogging Lifehouse

If he gets tired, I'd be more than happy to take up that chore for him.

― Prude, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Robin, you're tempting me to change my vote.

― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Since when is "Let My Love Open the Door" a GOOD thing?

With little knowledge of either's solo output (and I'll gladly stay ign'ant, thanks), I'll stick with Mick because it takes some sort of chutzpah to play the multigenarian sex tabby (cf. Reanimator) and ALMOST pull it off. (From the waist down, he's quite PHRWOAWR.)

― David Raposa, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Since its probably the sweetest love song this side of 1975.

― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Let Me Love Open The Door
A Little is Enough
Slit Skirts
Face Dances Part Two
Hiding Out

Pete.

― Mark, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think "Empty Glass" has a few great songs.

― Sean, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Since when is "Let My Love Open the Door" a GOOD thing?

Since forever, why do you continue to insist on irritating me with your horrible taste?

― Ally, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

for what it's worth, "Let My Love" is EXACTLY what I'm referring to when I decided Jagger's stuff wasn't as bad as Townshend's

― M. Matos, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think "Slit Skirts" is one of my faves, and Townsend has a lot of other strong material in his solo arsenal. Jagger, however...I can't think of anything memorable he's done solo. Maybe that song with all the pitiable double-entendres about cards at the end ("I got a **FULL HOUSE**!!", etc.)...what was that one called?

― Joe, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Pete Townshend, but only because he hasn't yet released anything as unredeemably bad as "Let's Work".

Now, if this thread were Keith Richards solo vs. Pete Townshend solo, ...

― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Not quite what this thread is about, but I very much like Townshend's demos of Who songs from the '70s. For example his version of "Pure And Easy" (released on "Who Came First") is much better than the Who's slightly clumsy and lethargic one. And "Time Is Passing" (from the same album) is fantastic.

― David Inglesfield, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Bill Wyman VS Keith Moon - GO!

― David Raposa, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

eight months pass...

Townshend is the CLEAR Winner. I don't even see a need to explain. Pete is a musical GENIUS, and his Lyrics hit home. Easy to Identify with. Jagger is a Disco Sellout, the Likes of Rod Stewart, Phil Collins, etc.....Pete and The Who continue to Rule. Along with others like The Kinks, and Pink Floyd. You can have your Overadvertised, and Overrated Mick Jagger and the Stones.

― Ray, Sunday, 20 October 2002 03:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Jagger is a Disco Sellout

Jagger wins!

Pete and The Who continue to Rule. Along with others like The Kinks, and Pink Floyd.

Slightly off-topic, but can anyone think of what a country would be like if it were ruled by The Who, Pink Floyd and The Kinks? Pete and Roger Waters would be spending all the state funds on gigantic operas, while Ray Davies would be busy making Afternoon Tea mandatory!

― Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 20 October 2002 11:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Andy - the Jagger song is "Party Doll", and yes it's lovely. (Chieftains guest on it IIRC)

― dave q, Sunday, 20 October 2002 12:54 (twenty-three years ago)

oddly enuff, the phrase "yes it's lovely (Chieftains guest on it IIRC)" is what chomsky was still using in the original manuspcript, before he hit on "colourless green ideas sleep furiously"

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 20 October 2002 15:13 (twenty-three years ago)

"Pete is a musical GENIUS, and his Lyrics hit home. Easy to Identify with."

Yeah, that stuff about blind pinball experts always speaks to the Everyman in me.

― Ben Williams, Sunday, 20 October 2002 15:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Ahh, such an intelligent individual. He chooses Tommy, the Rock Opera, to take the Lyrics seriously. Get a Grip, Lay off the Dust Man! The Who as Band had Member for Member, the Greatest Band ever. The Best Rock Vocalist...Roger{Power}, The best Songwriting, and Guitar WOrk..Pete Townshend, and without a DOUBT, the next two, absolutely Ruled their Positions..John Entwistle, and Keith Moon.
To argue over a Talentless Little Weasle Like MIck Jagger, prancing around in Leotards isnt worth Arguing. Just ask David Bowie what Mick is Good at.

― Ray R., Monday, 21 October 2002 01:24 (twenty-three years ago)

two months pass...

Townshend never marched around the Top of the Pops studio like some kind of paedophile. Therefore, Townshend it is.

-- Robin Carmody (robin@), February 11, 2002.

oh well

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Sunday, 12 January 2003 23:11 (twenty-three years ago)

If we put their haircuts to battle, I'm sure of the winner.

"Just ask David Bowie what Mick is Good at."
Classic snide comment of the week.

― mallory bourgeois (painter man), Monday, 13 January 2003 01:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm sorry... though Mick Jagger has produced a pitiful album on his own here and there I think it quite a stretch to call that a SOLO CAREER!

― Pig Nuts, Monday, 13 January 2003 01:25 (twenty-three years ago)

two years pass...

Mick Jagger, "Let's Work" excepted.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 19 May 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

Well if this thread's back...

Through calendar 1992, I side with Pete on the strength of "Slit Skirts" as an AOR staple and, forgiving the odd lyrical airball, a touching response to "My Generation."

Wandering Spirit changes things for me. Plenty of crap, some of it genuinely unlistenable, but I have a real soft spot for the ballads. They're trifles, but they're sweet, personal trifles that wouldn't fit in a Stones context, which seems like exactly the point of a solo rec-ohd.

Agreed that all Mick/Pete's base belong to Keef. "Wicked As It Seems" 4evah.

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Thursday, 19 May 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

"Evening Gown" – great song. That whole album is the best Stones album since "Dirty Work."

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 19 May 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

"Rough Boys," so Pete.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 May 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

I WILL BE IMMMERSED
QUEEN OF THE FUCKING UNIVERSE!!!

Um, Pete, I guess.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 19 May 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

"Who Came First" and "Rough Mix" (half Ronnie Lane, I know) both seem better to me than Mick's solo best ("Wandering Spirit" I think) so I guess Pete. Although Jagger has never sunk to the depths of "Chinese Cowboys" or "Let My Love..."

― Not Thaat Chuck, Thursday, 19 May 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

"Evening Gown" – great song.

rogermexico

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Thursday, 19 May 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

"Evening Gown" – great song.

er, rogermexico ::heart:: Alfred Soto

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Thursday, 19 May 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

I ::heart:: rogermexico

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 19 May 2005 20:40 (twenty years ago)

jesus, this is very obviously Pete to me, for White City alone. And all the early singles (Rough Boys, Slit Skirts)

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 19 May 2005 22:48 (twenty years ago)

Pete without a doubt! Call me a rockist, but I like the fact that with Pete's solo career you never get the sense that he's trying desperately to be hip or score a hit as always seems to be the case with Jagger. Instead, you get the sense he's just following his muse or whatever (and to be fair, this muse has produced its fair share of stinkers.) Who Came First and Empty Glass are largely great to me, and All the Best Cowboys... has Slit Skirts, which despite a self pitying rock star lyric here and there, is one of the best songs he ever wrote. The chorus with its precarious mixture of resignation and hope is incredibly moving.

How about a Townshend POX?

― D. Bachyrycz, Friday, 20 May 2005 03:56 (twenty years ago)

Okay....WOOOOAH. Excuse me I just saw the title of this thread...we're joking right? Pete Townshend could squash Mick Jagger like a bug. No not just a bug, we're talking microscopic bugs, here.

― The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Friday, 20 May 2005 04:08 (twenty years ago)

But Mick's got a bigger licking stick, Disco.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 20 May 2005 11:47 (twenty years ago)

Alejandro Escovedo's cover of "Evening Gown" ain't all bad either...

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:20 (twenty years ago)

He DOES?!? Well. SOMEBODY'S listening to Mick solo then.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 11:36 (twenty years ago)

Pete, hands down, easy choice. Jagger hasn't hardly been able to sing anything tolerably in years, let alone write.

And honestly, "Let's Work" is not anywhere near his worst output to me.

― Hutlock (Hutlock), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 18:59 (twenty years ago)

Todd, how would you answer this Taking Sides debate: "She's The Boss" vs "All The Chinese Girls Behind Blue Eyes" [sic]?

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

am i really the only person that thinks White City is a lost 80's classic?

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 19:56 (twenty years ago)

I do think "Hiding Out" is one of the best songs Pete ever wrote.

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

brillian blues! white city (the title track)! this album is leagues better than the last three Who albums, certainly; probably the best thing Townshend did after Quadrophenia. I liked the film as well.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

Alf, I still take Pete in that debate. "She's The Boss" is Jagger's best solo work to me, but it still isn't that great. Maybe three tunes I could honestly say I'd even want to hear again, and I'm not a huge fan of Laswell's production on that one.

― Hutlock (Hutlock), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 20:31 (twenty years ago)

*big, sincere backup singers chanting, "FACE THE FACE THE FACE THE FACE!"

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 20:57 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

So we got that Pete Townshend Gold here at the radio station. His music hall affinities appall me.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 15 June 2006 18:25 (nineteen years ago)

the whole premise of the thread seems like "I HATE PT and here's a convenient, hastily conceived Taking Sides to cover for it." Which is fine, but just lay it out there.
I have never read one nice thing about Mick's solo career until now. But does his song on the PERFORMANCE st count because that is truly great
As for "i'm just doing research" Pete, the Ronnie Lane collab (which maybe doesn't count, but it should), Rough Boys and a few other singles are fine (some of Empty Glass is rather dated in that Old Rocker tries to sound New Wave kinda way). I have never heard Pete's first solo album, any good?

― timmy tannin (pompous), Thursday, 15 June 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

does his song on the PERFORMANCE st count because that is truly great

"Memo From Turner" - iirc Ry Cooder gets some credit for that as well. Best Mick Jagger/Bob Dylan/William Burroughs mashup EVAR.

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Thursday, 15 June 2006 23:14 (nineteen years ago)

Pete by a NOSE? ha? ha?

I have never read one nice thing about Mick's solo career until now

rolling stone gave goddess in the doorway 5 stars i think.
because, you know, it deserves it.

S: Pete's rendition of "North Country Girl" on Maryville Academy is soooo nice.

― A Giant Mechanical Ant (The Giant Mechanical Ant), Thursday, 15 June 2006 23:33 (nineteen years ago)

Townshend. It's not even close. Nobody gives a shit about Jagger's solo career for good reason.

― don weiner (don weiner), Friday, 16 June 2006 01:31 (nineteen years ago)

don't really care about either, BUT 'just another night' is FANTASTIC.

― indie disco dancer, sweet romancer (haitch), Friday, 16 June 2006 02:37 (nineteen years ago)

four months pass...

Revived, because Pete has rereleased most of his '80s output. Anyone buy'em?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 21 October 2006 23:54 (nineteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

"Let My Love Open The Door" is so awesome. The beginning sounds like "Reading Rainbow" is about to come on! (=classic)

― wordy rappinghood (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 7 November 2006 21:40 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

mick jagger solo is truly shit, makes bill wyman's dreck look good

― gershy, Thursday, 6 December 2007 06:01 (eighteen years ago)

Get down with your bad self.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 6 December 2007 06:03 (eighteen years ago)

I still can't believe Matos doesn't like "Let My Love Open the Door".

― Mark Rich@rdson, Thursday, 6 December 2007 06:20 (eighteen years ago)

"Let My Love Open the Door" is fucking brill.

― King Boy Pato, Thursday, 6 December 2007 10:26 (eighteen years ago)

believe it

― Matos W.K., Thursday, 6 December 2007 12:02 (eighteen years ago)

haha I can't believe I started this thread

― Matos W.K., Thursday, 6 December 2007 12:03 (eighteen years ago)

KILL POVERTY

the Lennon-produced "Too Many Cooks" ain't bad. I heard a song called "Throwaway" last week in which he rhymes "casanova" and "bossa nova." Clever!

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 6 December 2007 12:15 (eighteen years ago)

WHAT A CHARMED LIFE

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 6 December 2007 12:21 (eighteen years ago)

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