Girls like dollys, boys like tanks.

I meant, presuming people are looking to "relate" to music based on race or gender, or whatever else, then how does the way they listen to it differ from ILMers (without meaning to sound overly pretentious re:this board).

Regarding the race thing.......these days it doesn't matter what color you are....noone cares anymore, it doesn't register....but if you're under the age of 25 and a bit of a socially retarded pussy, you'll avoid black music in reaction to basically everything....even if you're black....I know the game, I watch it unfold.

Oh, by the way, if you ever meet an asian indie girl that really dislikes hiphop, chances are almost bulletproof that the chick is a little to very ashamed of her parents, doesn't have much to say about whatever, and is a fucking loser. I'm very awesome so I can triangulate these things confidently. Don't get me started on Oreos. It's all socially constructed you know.

Oh crap, the above only applies stateside....UK people probably won't know what I'm on about.....okay I'm going to bed. L8s

Hey Ramosi - what about Cub?

I guess the 12 CD MTV Fanatic types (if we're calling them one and the same) tend to approach music with the desire to whole-heartedly believe in their artists. A big Janet Jackson or NIN fan or whatever feels they can "relate" because they eagerly associate themselves with overblown personas and illusions tailored by media. Such actions generally result from an absence of self-awareness or insecurity. From my experience, Asian teens looked towards black music over white music because of some sort of defensive, scared and vaguely anti-white stance. So the minority, perceived underdog stations of radio were the choice. Clinging to gender roles applies similarly.

I can't speak for all of ILM, but I hear music without rigid personal identifications and subcultural allegiances. People want to sit down and have tea with their artists, or they get caught up about keeping it real or credibility. But really.... nothing's at stake except the actual sound of the music. I want to construct my palette of taste based on whats there, the explicit waves of sound.... all the cultural gunk and whatnot doesn't need to be dutifully embraced so much as acknowledged and witnessed.

Ramosi.... how much worse could they possibly be than indie anti-rap girls of any race? Now Asian classical anti-rap girls on the other hand......

It would be ridiculous to state that gender doesn't play a role. But then that doesn't mean I (or someone else) apply to the cliche. Overall I don't much like Metal because I - as a woman - don't relate to it. I just find it overall to be one fist in the air and the other in the pants. But I am really BIG fan of noise (rock), punk,.... basically *hard* sounds because I need it. I listen to different genres because I experience different emotions. I dunno, I haven't thought it out enough.

Should have probably mentioned my pet hate. Irish people who like U2 and Thin Lizzy purely because of Whiskey in the Jar and Sunday Bloody Sunday and the to steal what Honda was saying,due to some vaguely anti-English sentiment.

This seems to be the question of "why do we like what we like" yet again. I think race and gender more likely effect social interaction which in turn effects not only aesthetic taste but what music/etc you are expposed to. I find myself disliking the "because they relate to it" stance because it often comes off as condescending. I mean, would anyone here admit to liking something because they can relate to it? Hm.

Girls tend to have different taste to boys because girls (believe it or not) are born different to boys (which isn't to say there can't be common ground or that emotional predispositions can't be modified by social context), but black people aren't born different to white people (that is, there simply aren't the clearcut on-average genetic differences which allow for any meaningful generalisations as to racial preference or potential). There's a strong chance a black person will be born into a different culture or subculture than a white person, which is where what differences there are take shape, but if it wasn't for the huge part still played by perception of racial difference (on both sides) in the shaping of a culture and its attitudes, then the mere fact of different traditions would be no bar to their being as many black indie kids as white and as many white rappers as black, so long as there was a similar prosperity-poverty balance between the races (the lack of which of course is often a consequence of races being perceived differently). There's girly music and guy music, but there's no such thing as 'black' music or 'white' music.

(And the implication which has been made by some ILM posters, that the relative one-sidedness of popular music appropriation to date equates to 'whites' stealing and watering-down 'black' music is racist: PEOPLE in a position of privilege have ripped off the culture created by PEOPLE in a position of disadvantage. Nothing more.)

No...I don't think it's true at all. Amongst young people, male nand female, it's all about which youth cult you identify with, who you're 'in with' etc. The Corrs/Simply Red fans are into the sohisticated, mature thing...& J-Pop fans would love to exist within a Hello Kitty cartoon. On the Subject of race, I knew a black guitarist in an indie band, who told me that everyone he spoke to assumed he played bongoes...

I don't think the set of subcultural experiences you're exposed to is everything, when it comes to race/ethnicity; I think there are certain things in music that appeal to different races based on the collective consciousness of that group of people. For example, why has melody always been so prevalent in the music of white people across the globe, while rhythm has always been foremost in the music of black people all over the world. When black people were taken as slaves to America, they were cut off from their cultural roots of polyrhythmic, repetitive music, yet later generations of blacks created music, such as jazz/r&b/rock'n'roll/funk/disco/house/hip- hop, that had the same funky feeling as African music. The same goes for white people: no matter how hard white kids try to rebel against staid old musical forms (and, in doing so, they frequently try to copy current forms of black music), the music they make always ends up, on the whole,as being very melodic. For example: white rock, punk, emo, trance, etc. Just a thought.

Honda, good points as usual....yes, I threw up asian indie girls as an example because it just came to mind as an fun easy dis....I can very much relate to your dead-on observation about the other half - the asian kids of the riceboy mold that align themselves with the murkily anti-white thing...."toughness"....it's very assimilationist yet paranoid and racialized......I remember a crew of asian kids in my school that only played basketball and would actually get genuinely angry if they saw some asian kids playing "whitewash" sports like tennis or skiing....hang at billiards halls all day...keep it real, Wa-Ching....blah. Yes, they're just as weak....I think I just find myself noticing the anti-rap indie stereotype more because I find myself in situations where I encounter it more eg the net, music discussions - the riceboys are slobs but I never have to actually hear them talk music. Whereas the indie kids.....you have to put up with the same old "ummm....I prefer melody!" thing every 2 days or so....it's just in my face too much and it gets repetitive..... You're right, an asian indie antirap girl is no worse than any old antirap indie girl....there's just that extra insecure racialized baggage that makes them so much more fun to make fun of....I love how the most predictable behavior manages to snake out of those people....must have something to do with the sewage system

Whatever! I liked lego not barbies, though I had them both. So take your generalisations and ... make my life miserable with them! Even if they're true, don't wave them round like that, you might injure someone!

Jesus Christ, Ramosi... By any chance, did you recently get done wrong by an anti-rap Asian indie girl?

Sorry if I offended you Maryann.

I noticed today how "Girls Like Us" by B-15 Project sounds like the ultimate Gran Turismo background music and I thought of this thread....