LAY OFF NATALIE MERCHANT

Yes, there are!

Oh Hope Chest is the shit, man. You've got that one right. That's probably the very best Maniacs there is, although Wishing Chair gives it a good run for its money, and probably tops it in the lyrics department. Also this is the sexiest album cover I've ever seen:

http://www.lovepeace.org/vos/album/01album/01natalie.jpg

"A frosted tower/of sugar and flour/for the couple of the hour"

or "Verdi Cries", or the "The Painted Desert"...

1. Maddox Table
2. Katrina's Fair
3. Planned Obsolescence
4. Like the Weather
5. Can't Ignore the Train
6. Wildwood Flower
7. Orange
8. Eat for Two
9. Don't Talk
10. My Mother the War
11. Daktari
12. Back o' the Moon
13. A Campfire Song
14. You Happy Puppet
15. Verdi Cries

Doctors have come from distants cities, just to see me
Stand over my bed, disbelieving what they're seeing

1-They say I must be one of the wonders
Of God's own creation
And as far as they see, they can offer
No explanation

Newspapers ask intimate questions, want confessions
They reach into my head to steal, the glory of my story

Ooo, I believe, fate, fate smiled
And destiny laughed as she came to my cradle
Know this child will be able
Laughed as my body she lifted
Know this child will be gifted
With love, with patience, and with faith
She'll make her way, she'll make her way

People see me I'm a challenge to your balance
I'm over your heads how I confound you
And astound you
To know I must be one of the wonders...

Really, what is this song about, a clairvoyant who wants to upset the status quo?

xpost Ned that's totally bizarro! Unless that was your grandmother in the video or something. "Trouble Me" was kinda just "Like the Weather" remade. A lot of Blind Man's Zoo was In My Tribe remade, better written and better produced and yet still not as good, what with Merchant's lyrics tipping over the line from "oh cool she sings about actual stuff" to "yeah, I know, an issue, just write a short story or something." (Seriously, it's amazing how much her lyrics have forever been like Marilynne Robinson books and such.)

I've always heard it as a fantastical musing on a newborn baby seen as destined for great things. I'm not generally a fan of Natalie's voice or work, but that song always struck me as really intriguing, and it was the first thing that came to mind when two of my best friends had a baby last summer. Little Lydia is a fortunate child indeed: "with love, with patience, and with faith, she'll make her way."

the thing i always hear about that record is "i'd love it if it wasn't for the dated '80s production." to me the production's the best thing about it! peter asher, i worship you.

Nabisco startlingly OTM re: Blind Man's Zoo vs. In My Tribe

haha he's a terrible guitar player though! there are bum notes on unplugged that even the usual "live album" post-production sleight of hand couldn't sweep under the rug.

A buddy of mine watched her in the early days huffing markers onstage (and twirling around in a skirt with no underwear). She is now playing with symphony orchestras. So, yeah, she's grown up (and her new album is really solid, if also a bit stolid).

It's easy to make that claim when markers doesn't post here anymore.

She and Stipe came into the record store I worked at in college (10,000 Maniacs were opening for R.E.M. in town that night). This would have been . . . 1985? I thought they were a couple of homeless people.

1985 seems too early. It might have been the 1986 show. Camper Van Beethoven opened for them then. I think they were a couple then, so maybe they were just hanging out.

https://lastfm.freetls.fastly.net/i/u/ar0/398be0596de44ff6abd2552f5bf543cf.jpg

That photo's from later though, it was taken at the MTV Inaugural Ball in 1993.

listening to 10,000 Maniac's first album (Wishing Chair) right now, I really dig this, definitely in the jangly post REM college rock vein but has a unique feel

guitar playing is great, reminds me of Marr a bit

Some of those guitar lines are wtf in the best way

yes! very inventive and odd

TWC wasn't their first album though, that was Secrets of the I Ching. xps

hmmm that's not on streaming for some reason

ums- hope chest

that's the first 2 eps on one disc

It was on a small indie. All the songs are on Hope Chest

x-post!

It was reissued (along with their début EP Human Conflict No. 5) as Hope Chest, you'll probably find it under that.

xps lol

I mean, who else in America was recording folk rock with Indestructible Beat of Soweto guitars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiBv1VPZjaY

For some reason they faffed around with the running order of the songs on The Wishing Chair for the CD (and presumably streaming) versions. The album flows much better with the original vinyl running order IMO.

Huh, I didn't know they did that (they added a bunch of songs, too). I've only ever known the CD version

Thanks for the Hope Chest heads up all! Will check it out

"About the Weather" has some interesting production choices...the track generally has a good amount of classic 80s reverb on it, even exaggerated on the lead vocal at times (there's a long tail on the last words of lines during the chorus for instance), but then the guitar sounds super dry and immediate and panned hard right -- almost sounds like a DI guitar, cool contrast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te7bbWBXusk

Cool to see some discussion/appreciation of Hope Chest. It's the only Maniacs I play regularly, in fact I just listened again last night thanks to this thread. Natalie's wordy lit class lyrics, delivered with maximum incomprehensibility and set to oddball calypso new wave, is really unique and charming.

I like how with "Planned Obsolescence" and "My Mother the War," they were like – "Yeah, 'punk,' we know what it is... we're not really into it, but here's our take."

i just started hope chest and the beginning of "planned obsolescence" reminded me of "public image" for a sec

the guitar playing on that track is bonkers, all squiggles

Yeah Robert Buck loved his pedal board.

looking at some of my initial thoughts about hope chest from 2009-

Imagine Johnny Marr playing guitar on the first Throwing Muses album and throw a sort of sporadic reggae slant into the mix and you have the first recordings of 10,000 Maniacs. It's your basic new wave formula for something that, by all reasonable logic, shouldn't work, but does because of the simplicity of the arrangements and tunes.

and yes, "planned obsolescence" is delectable.

lol I'm glad I'm not the only one who hears early Throwing Muses - though in some ways you could describe Kristin and Natalie as diametrically opposed in terms of their lyrical approach.

There's a thing about how if you took Hamlet and Lear and switched protagonists, neither play would be longer than 15 minutes.

Now I am trying to imagine Natalie singing Hips and Makers, or Kristin singing Blind Man's Zoo and... I admit I would kinda like to hear that.

Urgh maybe it's actually more likely to be said of Hamlet and Macbeth, but you get the the idea

Those guitars on "Planned Obsolescence"!

Back of the Moon is such a great song- I recently realized I can only understand the lyrics when I am readin g along with the song - which increased my appreciation. ALso one of the people of which I think "why such good songs for a breif period then not much good for decades? "

What's the saying, you have your whole life to write your first album, but only 6 months to write your second?

I recently realized I can only understand the lyrics when I am reading along with the song

The first time I saw them back in the 80s I thought it might be another language, or at least heavily accented English. Her lyrics, especially early on, are dense and "literary," and then she often condenses or divides syllables in odd ways to make them fit the music. I totally get the early Stipe and Liz Fraser connections.

There was a brief moment (before I became a fan) where I got them confused with the Sugarcubes… I knew one of the bands had an Icelandic singer, and I assumed it was Merchant (due to her enunciation).

Getting that goddawful "wonder" song stuck- and i mean STUCK - in my head because of this revive has been the worst music-related experience i can remember, would you kindly refrain from killing my soul.

"Jealousy" is worse: the least peeved jealousy anthem ever written.

Ooh.
Jealousy.

In favor of NM:
* her commentary in the Women Who Rock doc was enjoyable and it's fun to see her again. She clearly DNGAF
* she has a documented weird sense of humor because in the Lilith Fair oral history she admits to spraying Liz Phair with a squirtgun in the face even though she had just done her makeup

I never want to hear her singing voice again tbh but as a person I support her quietly goofy and puckish demeanor.

I will add that In My Tribe was one of the 10 tapes that I had when I had a 10-cassette container and I don't think I could listen to it today. Being reminded of the period of my life when 10K Maniacs was a full 1/10 of my listening (beyond radio) honestly scares me, do not wish to revisit middle school. Even thinking about "Peace Train" makes my stomach turn.

I revisited Blind Man's Zoo y'day; my sense/recollection was that it would be kind of a drag (due to the heavy-handed lyrics), but the songs are good!! (especially in the first half). Great melodies & performances, as usual. "Hateful Hate" is a definite skip – but other than that, it's not an LP to sleep on... I think its bad rep is somewhat unjustified.

Not only does Nat lay all her cards on the table in "Headstrong" (re: the pointlessness of trying to change her mind about anything), the "rock anthem" guitar sound on that song is pretty remarkable / unique for the band.

It's been sitting on my shelf pretty much neglected since 1987. I'll give it another try, but my interest in them post-Wishing Chair wanes considerably.

"Hateful Hate" is a stupid song, though.

Well I said it's a skip!

(Dan P. – if you limited tolerance for even In My Tribe, I doubt a revisit of these albums will really move the needle for you...)

Well I said it's a skip!

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that early maniacs vibe is like a stoned altered images. good stuff

make it stop make it stop make it stop 😭

God's own creation

Stoned Altered Images OTM