The Most UN-"Punk Rock" album ever..

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....is FRAGILE by Yes?

Ten minute songs? Check. Fastidious musicianship? Check. Lyrical allusions to Brahms and "the March hare"? Check and check. Swirly logo? Check. Garish science-fiction/fantasy cover art by Roger Dean? Oh, indeed check! Meticulously plucked twelve-string guitars rife with baroque stylings and roccoco intricacies? Check. Oblique, otherworldly lyrical imagery recalling Heinlein, Tolkien and Bradbury? Check, Check and thrice Check. Perfect, soaring harmonies? Check. Flawlessly sweeping, meticulous production? Check. Ridiculously pompous keyboard fills courtesy of hirsute Arthurian Rick Wakeman? Checketh.

The absolute polar inverse of, say, the first albums by the Damned, the Ramones and the Clash?

What say you? Or have you a better candidate in mind than this bloated wedding cake of classic prog rock? Is FRAGILE by Yes not the most UN-"Punk Rock" album ever recorded? If not, what is?

― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Uh - have you forgotten ELP? Pictures at an Exhibition or Works I. Everything that's FRAGILE and more. At least 'Roundabout' had a cool guitar riff.

― Dave225, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No no.

― Gage-o, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i must seek out this incredible record.

― ethan, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

lps by damned, clash and ramones = NOT PUNK alex, i thought we'd been here

all LPs by anyone are prog: ditto all live shows

― mark s, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ahh, I can always count on Mark S. to provide an entertaining violation of logic. Salut!

― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

THE FRAGILE by NIN is more un-punk, being so hurt and "soulful" and inward looking not to mention more produced than any classik-prog and being not two LPs, but two CDs.

― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Greatest Hits of Perry Como. Like...Duh.

― Lord Custos, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Perhaps I should have asserted the parameters as being "within the realm of rock'n'roll."

― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

but neither punk nor prog — insofar as they are distinct — ARE rock'n'roll: they are both the DEATH of rock'n'roll

― mark s, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Pat Boone's No More Mister Nice Guy
Like...Duh!

― Lord Custos, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Julian Lennon's 1st

― dave q, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

London Calling

― Kris, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Outside the gate" - Killing Joke

― john-paul, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Go to your room, John-Paul, or I'll tell Rob Moss on you!

― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

My stupid question: what makes FRAGILE less punk rock than TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS?

― doug, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Not a stupid question at all, Doug. I think I opted for FRAGILE being that its the more celebrated Yes album (which I suppose is also arguable).

Still, you're quite right. The mere usage of the term "topographical" renders it quite assuredly UN-Punk (although I'm sure Mark S. will predictably dissagree, citing something like: "BIG VOCAB WORDS = PUNQ!")

― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Prog = Punk in that both are made by social rejects trying to avoid blues cliches. Also, why isn't using a distortion pedal baroque? Still, if you want to make that claim, surely that "Wives of Henry VIII" album or whatever by Rick Wakeman far surpasses 'Fragile' in terms of progitude. I think Remy Zero is the polar opposite of punk.

― Clarke B., Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll tell you about punk rock.

― Lee, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Proof of the unpunkness of Yes and the sad delusions in the mind of Jon Anderson.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Anything by Sting.

― Dave Beckhouse, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

John Wayne's "America: Why I Love Her."

― JM, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

http://yesworld.com/gallery/images/albums/Fragile.jpg

― the Heart of the Sunrise, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ah, the fragile cover. a sight for sore eyes!

― cecilia, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Wait a second, did Larouche steal the Eurasian Land Bridge idea from Yes?

― Kris, Tuesday, 12 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

hey thats a pretty cover!

― gabe, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

well it all depends on what you take to be punk rock in the first place doesn't it? and why isn't the clash et al punk rock? punk is a really hard word to define anyway. so what does punk even mean (within music)?

― fran, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

well anything that claims to be a 'punk' album is Upunk. punk doesn't exist and it never has

― stevie, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ethan: You really should. It's a total classic. "Heart of the Sunrise" by itself justifies what you'd pay for it. Either that or "Starship Trooper" is my favourite Yes song. "The Fish" and "South Side of the Sky" are also great. The short instrumental tracks provide nice pacing and atmosphere.

― sundar subramanian, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I still like "South Side of the Sky", even years after being a Yes fanatic. Bruford's "5 Percent For Nothing" is interesting, and miraculously, Anderson's "We Have Heaven" is also good.

However, I would venture to say that Yes has a few albums less punk than this, most notably the two that followed: Close to the Edge and Tales From Topographic Oceans.
― dleone, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It'd be punk to leave everything in italics.

― dleone, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That cover is SUCH a Wipers ripoff, man.

― David Raposa, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

mark s = OTM; alex nyc = mentalist; 5% + the fish (at least this orig. version) at least as close to punk as the damned ever were

― Jeff W, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drf000/f062/f062 26qhctt.jpg

Dude...

― JM, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"punk is a really hard word to define anyway. so what does punk even mean (within music)?"

Good point, Fran -- which is why, in the original question, I insisted on putting "Punk Rock" in quotation marks. Still, it strikes me that regardless of individual definitions and interpretations of the amorphous genre, FRAGILE by Yes singularly encapsulates practically everything "Punk" was designed to destroy.

― Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

P.S....for what it's worth, I'm not knocking FRAGILE. I think it's a complete monster of an album, "March Hares", "Moon Dogs" and all. Which, I suppose, renders *ME* most UN-"Punk." Oh deary dear....

― Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No, it's liking Fragile as an album, a suite, a concept, which is not very "Punk Rock". Why not think of it this way (as I do) - Heart Of The Sunrise is one of the Top 5 songs ever, Roundabout and Long Distance Runaround are great pop, the solo bits are failed attempts at establishing the band members as artistes in their own right (when only Howe was capable) but amusing nonetheless...

― Jeff W, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Blondie's Greatest Hits...which rocks!

― Joe "PappaWheelie" Gonzalez, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh come on. "Fragile?" Yeah sure, "un-punk" !t !z, but we're forgetting the orb, surely...."U F Orb" or that godawful "live evil" album....surely theeee most un punk, and bloody awful (the live one) to boot.

― Norman Phay, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i did consider the fact that you added rock to punk but its still pretty ambiguous. the essential part of punk rock is punk is it not? to define it from other rock. so punk still needs to be defined in my opinion...

― fran, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dude... The Duke... why is there discussion about this?

― JM, Wednesday, 13 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You'd be startled how many American punks LOVED Yes. I'll wait here while you go look.

― Colin Meeder, Thursday, 14 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dude, punk and indie kids are the only people who still listen to Yes.

― sundar subramanian, Thursday, 14 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

So is Ethan punk or indie?

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 14 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

3 words: Apples in Stereo

― sundar subramanian, Thursday, 14 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, that's pretty punk. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

cue ethan: why are so many people talking about me on this thread??

― jess, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

the first album by the clash

― maryann, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

two months pass...

vincent gallo made yes the coolest band in the world somehow...did anyone notice that kickass scene in buffalo 66...Chris Squire is GOD

most unpunk album ever: cocktail soundtrack

― rocak, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Most UN-punk album by Yes: Tales from Topographic Oceans by rep, Close to the Edge by actuality.

Most shameless punk-copping by Yes: "Release, Release" (Tormato) and "Tempis Fugit" (Drama).

By the way, Fragile doesn't have any 12-string guitar on it (that I know of), and I don't particularly hear much in the way of Tolkien, Heinlein, or Bradbury in the lyrics. Also, the 1976 Yes solo albums, for the most part, are fucking great.

― Joe, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

My vote, by the way, if your going to take a high-profile prog act, would be something by Renaissance, like "Turn of the Cards" or "Scheherezade".

Yes could have quite a heavy/intense side to them, the examples abound to anyone who has bothered to listen: "The Ancient" and the percussion/electronics middle of Ritual from Topographic Oceans (much more wild on their live '76 performances, admittedly); almost all of "Gates of Delerium" and "Sound Chaser" off Relayer, and the first part of "Close to the Edge" (e.g., I have a great import DVD of their classic concert at QPR in '76 and Howe just fucking goes off on that one; I thought he was going to explode).

With Annie Haslam's vocals, the much more twee lyrics, and the emphasis on 12-string guitar and acoustic piano, Renaissance thus has the lighter, reliably more un-punk tone.

― Joe, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Greenslade makes Yes sound like the Exploited. (If you're reading this - hi there)

― dave q, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

two months pass...

where there's a mention of yes, talk about uriah heep is sure to follow.

magma were pretty unpunk (musically), but awfully close on the atmosphere/aim tip.

― mike bott, Thursday, 11 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Tying in with the Yes/punk kids theory

I interviewed Mark Perry for my Ramones book couple of nights ago.... and that guy defined 'punk' for me when I was a teenager (far more than Lydon, Strummer et al - who were clearly all media-created phonies)

He was saying he's totally been checking out ELP again recently - cos that's what he loved when he was 13

― Jerry, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I would actually consider Celine Dion/Barbra Streisand far more un-punk than any prog band.

― Siegbran Hetteson, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Certainly. The prog rock bands are still rock bands (like the punks).

― Jerry, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The Song Remains the Same by Led Zeppelin.

Live at the Fillmore by Humble Pie

Queensryche's Operation Livecrime.

Hours of aimless noodling/blind tubthumping and Pointless Wankery, Revolting sexism (OK, mostly not so in Queensryche's case) and pure rockstar idiocy (but twice so in Queensryche's case), delivered across such a huge(geographical)distance that it reinforces the utter impssibility of "DIY" ("hey, I could do this, too!") on the part of the listener. Hey, leave it to them, they're the stars!!

Nearly any heavy metal live album has such airs, in fact!

― Matt Riedl (veal), Saturday, 13 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The most un-punk album ever is Blink-182's Enema Of the State. There, I said it.

― Nate Patrin, Saturday, 13 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

nirvana's nevermind alb.

― Julio Desouza, Saturday, 13 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey Julie I already made the "name an album that's really pretty damn close to if not actual punk" joke.

― Nate Patrin, Saturday, 13 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

John Wayne. Read back a bit and you shall see.

― JM, Saturday, 13 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate- that wasn't meant to be a joke.

― Julio Desouza, Saturday, 13 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

U2 - All That You Can't Leave Behind

― Clarke B., Saturday, 13 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Well I sure as hell don't take it seriously.

― Nate Patrin, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't resist mentioning here an album I see quite often in car boot sales, though it will mean nothing to our American friends: "Val Doonican Rocks...But Gently". I haven't heard it, so it may be very punk indeed, for all I know (though I would not put money on that).

― Martin Skidmore, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Nevermind= a pop metal alb disguising itself as a punk alb. It took me a while to see it.

― Julio Desouza, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Which is funny 'cos Kurt and Courtney supposedly got within inches of getting into a huge asskickathon vs. Axl Rose and pals.
I also distinctly remember Sebastian Back talking shit about Kurt in a letter to Rolling Stone shortly after Kurt's suicide ("Kurt was a coward and he didn't write anything as good as Lennon's 'Beautiful Boy' anyways). Then again I suppose all "stupid three-chord Stooge-rock" sounds the same to you anyhow.

That said: Alice in Chains is another matter entirely.

― Nate Patrin, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

"Back"=Bach(=Crap)

― Nate Patrin, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

''Then again I suppose all "stupid three-chord Stooge-rock" sounds the same to you anyhow.''

Rock is dead, only indie is alive and well. Where have you been all this time?!

― Julio Desouza, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

How can a genre be replaced by a signifier of minor-label status? I don't get it!

― Nate Patrin, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

that last comment was obv. a joke (well, half of it was but can you guess which half?).

nevermind is hardly "stupid three-chord Stooge-rock" . It isn't stupid stupid. It sounds like a well-crafted studio pop alb. to me.

― Julio Desouza, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

Oh, and I have to add two other words, belatedly: GENTLE GIANT.

― matt riedl (veal), Saturday, 12 October 2002 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"Mark Sinker's Greatest Hits"

― Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 13 October 2002 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

Listening to Fragile this afternoon, and by gosh if it ain't just a great record....regarless of its unfathomable pomposity.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 22:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Diamanda Galas's "Vena Cava"

― Felcher (Felcher), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 22:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Someone upthread mentioned the Cocktail soundtrack. My parents used to listen to that one a ton. It probably is one of the most un-punk albums ever, especially the Starship song on it ("Wild Again"). Then again almost everything that punk and indie rockers thumbed their noses at one time or another has been resuscitated and made into an object of retro-semi-ironic fetishism (e.g. Brian Wilson, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Yes). So maybe Starship won't be far behind. I can just see someone doing a cover of "We Built This City" anyday now. I wouldn't be surprised if it's already been done.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

The Getz/Gilberto album.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

There are limits even to craven retro-semi-ironic fetishism.

Starship for one. Hall and Oates for another.

― Ian Grey (Ian_G), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 07:03 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.mikedaniels.gr/images/yannilivebig.jpg
http://www.homestead.com/yannigr/files/concerts/yanniconcerts.jpg

-Pretty close but I still think Jimmythemod hit it, it's the Duke. I can't believe nobody gave him credit for that!

― sucka (sucka), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 07:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely Going For The One is the more prog Yes album, because it doesn't predate the idea of punk rock, like every Yes album up to Relayer does, more or less. So GFTO is more of a red rag to a bull. I can imagine how annoying it must have been to hear "Wonderous Stories" on the radio in 1977.

― Schwingung (Damian), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

four years pass...

I love this record.

― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 03:33 (sixteen years ago)

I wish "Five Percent for Nothing" was longer. It's fun trying really really hard to count the time signature.

― Mr. Snrub, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 03:43 (sixteen years ago)

opening riff of "Heart Of The Sunrise" surely pretty punk

― Just got offed, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 09:11 (sixteen years ago)

I don't know whether it's Un-Punk or not, but this album is awesome. "South Side of the Sky" may be my favorite song of all time.

― Bill Magill, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 14:51 (sixteen years ago)

Surely most un-punk rock album can't be a progressive rock album? It's more likely to be some dreamy, melodic ambient LP or something.

― Tuomas, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 17:41 (sixteen years ago)

thats it.
i'm a hunting in the attic/archive tomorrow and seeing if in the current dissatisfied mood of the moment, this album finally hits the spot.

― mark e, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 17:59 (sixteen years ago)

Most un-punk? I'd nominate a Carpenters album, but dying of anorexia is surely pretty damn punk.

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 18:29 (sixteen years ago)

Most un-punk album ever: the Mark Hollis solo album

― Mr. Snrub, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 20:54 (sixteen years ago)

Hotel California

― ellaguru, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 20:59 (sixteen years ago)

"Five Percent for Nothing"

I haven't heard this record all the way through in probably 13 or 14 years.. I'm just now remembering that this song exists and I need to hear it now.. it's probably my favorite song on this album. (I heard "Heart Of The Sunrise" for the 1st time in years recently, and it's FAR less tedious than I when I discovered it.. perhaps I should give Fragile another shot.)

In response to the question, the most un-punk-rock album is something very safe-sounding, predictable, ordinary, well-produced and glossy, released on a major label and recieving top 40 airplay, from a band who sold their souls and dresses up as punk.

― billstevejim, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 05:15 (sixteen years ago)

Five Percent for Nothing is extremely cool. So is the Fish. Actually this whole thing is great

― Bill Magill, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 14:09 (sixteen years ago)

well i thought i had Fragile in the attic, turns out its actually Relayer, an album that doesn't seem to attract quite the same levels of adoration.

― mark e, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 14:15 (sixteen years ago)

From me it does. And from what I remember, Relayer's a big ILM favorite, at least among Yes fans here.

― Bill Magill, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 14:21 (sixteen years ago)

Be Your Own Pet it is!

― Formerly Painful Dentistry, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 15:19 (sixteen years ago)

If not for Wakeman's organ, you could play "5%" and quite easily convince yourself you're listening to Beefheart or the minutemen.

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Wednesday, 16 July 2008 17:18 (sixteen years ago)

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