I don't like Gram Parsons

As for the question: I love both Gram Parsons and Ryan Adams (a slight minor quibble, I would say now that it should be Bruce Springsteen vs Ryan Adams).

Pathetic in what way? The hype hasn't faded into nothingness (get out of your indie ghetto and talk to some other people (-; ) but even if it had, why would that make now a stupid time for Tom to express his approval? Are you suggesting that Tom DOESN'T REALLY LIKE THE STROKES?? Actually I think he always has done, in the same way I do - as a good time fun pop band.

I don't know why I'm defending Tom. He's an arse.

The reason FT's talking about them now is that all the hype and anti- hype about the Strokes was saying basically the same things and that wasn't what I was hearing on the record, so I thought I might as well write about that.

I'm always glad to see the return of Nick's "internet hardman" persona, too.

Ryan Adams is a fairly rocky mainstreamish country artist, Gram Parsons makes country music. I'm not even sure why Parsons is considered the father of alternative country anyway. Perhaps because of his "rock and roll lifestyle" (yawn).

But I put in a smiley face and everything! Who will rid me of this troublesom persona?

This Strokes = Updated Velvets thing is particularly daft. Sure the VU are in there, as are Television and The Smiths, but context is surely as, if not more important than the way they play their guitars. The question 'what can The Strokes do with their music in 2002' or 'where do guitar bands fit in any more' are crucial. Whether they're 'better' than a band who happened to have a similar *sound* 30 years ago doesn't matter.

Are any of these followers any good? Sometimes, yes - why not?

In ten years time I will like 80% different music from that which I do now. Hopefully.

Dr C is right too.

It's only pathetic because the question 'what is the greatest rock and roll band of all time' is pathetic. Oasis is as valid an answer as any other if that's what you feel and can argue your corner. As is Limp Bizkit or The Adverts or The Standells or The Cult.

Speaking for myself I don't have fixed opinions about the majority of groups whose music I know. Anyone can change from fantastic to bollocks from one day to the next, from one song to the next, or within a song! I like that. I depends what else I've been listening to, what someone has said or a whole complex mix of parameters which assemble themselves as they will.

You're on great form today, by the way, Alex!

Tom Ewing's PANTHEON OF ROCK. Whatever next?

Regarding your disdain at the Ryan/Gram juxtaposition, the best way of hearing exactly how much Ryan has been influence by Gram (in his singing style, not the style(s) on Gold but on the previous records) is to hunt out A Song For You (Parsons) by Whiskeytown, and, err, another Parsons song that Ryan duetted with Emmylou on. It's startling how similar he sounds.

The founder of modern country rock. Well, as a strict adherent to Dr C's multi-faceted outlook on the world of music, it would be impossible for me to conceive that Gram is solely responsible for the emergence of country rock. But it is incorrect I believe to dismiss his claim to the throne (a throne, note, that I don't believe exists) on the grounds that you perceive it is based on his RnR lifestyle. Arguably the first country rock album to come out was The Circle Will Be Unbroken by The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band (which pre-dates Sweetheart of The Rodeo) which saw a rock band unite with country musicians to create, essentially, purely country music for a rock audience. The Byrds took it one step further, under the influence of the non- contracted and visionary Parsons, bringing country influences into rock structures (per se) but bringing it up a level (this is why it is so important) by bringing it to a much larger audience (the Byrds were bigger the Dirt Band).

Parsons essentially took what he was rinsing through in the birds and tied the country in with rock structures. The songs are heavily country-tinged but its not the rhythms and structures that denote this but the instrumentation (pedal steel, mandolin) and that blond- boubon-soaked drawl of Gram's.

Whiskeytown essentially following in Gram's footsteps with Ryan (who has a similar irascible drawl) brought rock into country structures.

The influence is there.

This is very potted (and there may be mistakes but this is how I understand it 'went down').

I'd have to hear the songs you mention, but one thing I noticed on the Timeless (Hank Williams tribute) CD was that Adams can sound like alot of people, if the fancy takes him, so when doing a cover it's slightly different I think.

But how would the author choose which artists to mention and which to ignore? Do it on a sales basis? Or were you just joking?

I suppose I must have. I'm not sure what you mean by reference points. Do I constantly check to see where a piece of music fits into the pantheon of rock? No. Do I check to see where it fits into my own hierarchy? Impossible, because my own hierarchy is too chaotic. Do I check to see if the guitar player sounds like Johnny Marr, or the singer like Ian Curtis? No. My ultimate reference point (if we're talking about the same thing) is 'does this music make me want to enter its *world*'. This is badly expressed and possibly pompous, but I haven't time to agonize over this. I think I once started a thread on music which creates its own *world*, but it sort of petered out. If you can find it, it might explain what I mean.

**Otherwise it would be difficult for you to find the pearls in the heap of rubbish which most of today's music undoubtedly is**

I'm just limited by time and money. And the fact that there is another 40 years or more of music that I haven't fully explored yet. I don't think that most of today's music is rubbish.

**I am nevertheless curious in which Strokes song you heard The Smiths**

I think it was the rhythmic (but not lyrical) jauntiness of Last Night and/or Someday. Plus a certain vulnerability in general.

What has been absorbed are their melancholia (which is fairly easy to rip off musically) so that's where I'll be your mirror, for instance, comes in.