Very Basic questions about using Reason.

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I got a midi keyboard, an m-audio one, and I have Reason!

I have some very (very) basic questions which probably betray a real lack of understanding of what I'm doing, but here goes anyhow.

Is it possible to "make" your own drum sounds or are you always at the mercy of editing the ones in the soundback and fucking around with them? What is most common in dance music production? Do people sample a drum sound from external sources and use that? Or do you always need a sample from which to begin making a drum noise? I realise this is probably a fundamental sort of question but I am on the groundfloor as far as production knowledge goes.

Same question as regards synths and stuff, like, I guess I'm asking; is it possible to get any type of synth noise no matter which sample you begin with, simply by fucking about? It seems not, but in that case are synth noises all about the hardware you have? Do some synths have a default sound that will always make the samples used sound different/better? And a midi keyboard is basically just a conduit for whatever you put into the Reason synth?

I probably have more questions but those are my first two, any general advice or anything would be great. Or any non expensive programmes that will be helpful for me.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 2 September 2005 09:46 (nineteen years ago)

that's more than two questions!

Good Dog (Good Dog), Friday, 2 September 2005 09:52 (nineteen years ago)

heh, they are sub-questions!

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 2 September 2005 09:55 (nineteen years ago)

There are basically two ways of generating sounds: samples or synths. I've never used Reason but I imagine you use either way for any sound be they drums, bass, or whatever. If you generate sounds from a synth, it very much is the case that each machine has a sound of its own and you work with that.

Good Dog (Good Dog), Friday, 2 September 2005 09:58 (nineteen years ago)

Is it possible to "make" your own drum sounds or are you always at the mercy of editing the ones in the soundback and fucking around with them? What is most common in dance music production?

If you search around a bit, you should be able to find a short tutorial by (if I recall correctly) German hardtrance producers Cosmic Gate on how to build a kickdrum from scratch (start with a few sine waves, and process from there). In trance and hardcore circles it's quite common to do it this way, but as you probably know, in more conservative electro/techno circles people swear by the classic 808/909 sounds.

Siegbran (eofor), Friday, 2 September 2005 10:00 (nineteen years ago)

Reason doesn't have an 808 or 909 does it?

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 2 September 2005 10:05 (nineteen years ago)

If no-one's helped out by the time I get home from work, and I'm not too drunk, I'll try to point you in the right direction Ronan.

Rawer Patrick, Friday, 2 September 2005 10:05 (nineteen years ago)

i only use reason for the redrum drum machine and i use it simply because you can put whatever sounds you like into it - it's a drum sampling machine. i never use the presets but make up my own banks of drum samples (either sampled from other sources or by using sounds from an ancient synth that i then tweak into drum sounds. for example, i'll use a burst of white noise to create a hi hat) i load my own sounds in and mess about with them using the controls in redrum. i do this because i don't like having the same drum sounds as anyone else although i will usually add a (slightly tweaked) pre set sub kik drum or two to give it some oomph.

as for the synth side, yes, by messing around you can come up with pretty much any sound, although unless you know about synthesis this is going to be quite random in that if you are trying to get a specific sound, unless you know what you are doing you probably won't get what you are after. but, along the way you will probably come up with some interesting sounds. i do think the synth side of reason is a bit weak though.

and yes, the midi keyboard is just a conduit.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Friday, 2 September 2005 10:13 (nineteen years ago)

there should be 808 and 909 sounds in the sound bank.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Friday, 2 September 2005 10:13 (nineteen years ago)

Reason doesn't have an 808 or 909 does it?

The drum sampler Redrum probably has 808 and 909 sample sets included. If not, there are plenty of 808 and 909 sample sets on the net, some better quality than others perhaps, and you can load them into Redrum as a soundbank and use them.

Good Dog (Good Dog), Friday, 2 September 2005 10:14 (nineteen years ago)

Samples of the 808 and 909 kits can be found all over the net, should be easy to get hold of. this should help a bit btw - I know it's not your genre, but the basics are valid I guess.

Siegbran (eofor), Friday, 2 September 2005 10:17 (nineteen years ago)

808 kit
909 kit

zappi (joni), Friday, 2 September 2005 10:22 (nineteen years ago)

808/909 kits are already bundled in the Reason drum machine.

everyone's got their fave bit of software but as a programmer of some 15 years i'd throw my hat in with Ableton rather than Reason because i wish something like this was around when i started out. it's just so easy to learn and get fluid on. Reason seems like a virtual version of an analog studio with all it's attendant frustrations and the sequencing/automation side is a bit lumpy.

if you've got an m-audio oxygen 8 keyboard i'd also recommend NOT inputing MIDI via the USB port as it displays some latency which is a pain.

john clarkson, Friday, 2 September 2005 10:31 (nineteen years ago)

i agree john. especially with ableton 5 where they have pretty much perfected the midi side (a few glitches not withstanding). it's a a much better enviroment for creating music and a lot more powerful too. the sequencing side of it is a dream.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Friday, 2 September 2005 10:33 (nineteen years ago)

not as easy to get a cracked copy of thus saving the 500 euro though!

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 2 September 2005 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

so far the synth sounds are a bit underwhelming, sounds like playing on a yamaha keyboard you get for christmas as a child, or alternatively when you ramp up the filter a bit it sounds like the prodigy 1993.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 2 September 2005 10:39 (nineteen years ago)

try googling 909.wav or kick.wav or clap.wav or whatever to find drum samples, there's thousands of sites that have free downloads of classic drum machines. i found a great casio one where all the drum samples sound like air being blown through a mcdonalds straw.

i'm not sure about the synths on reason, i use fruityloops and adore the ts-404 synth, it's a perfect starter synth and makes wicked tuff electro noises and 303 sounds (you can hear one on tomas anderson "washing up" for example.) this is pretty easily downloadable on the net or on slsk, i cannot reccomend it enough.

emma snell, Friday, 2 September 2005 11:08 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know about the drum machines, but the synths, yes.

There are two different analogue-emulator synths included - Maelstrom and, erm... SubTractor (had to check). Both of these are almost infinitely customisable - the same as if they were analogue synths. You can set the basic wave-shapes from a long list, or make your own, combine them, put on ADSR and all other kinds of filters and combs and stuff. They are really, really super-versatile. There's no reason to ever use a pre-set you're unhappy with.

Luminiferous Aether (kate), Friday, 2 September 2005 11:19 (nineteen years ago)

Is it possible to "make" your own drum sounds or are you always at the mercy of editing the ones in the soundback and fucking around with them?

reason does not edit/record audio waveforms. you need an audio editor - protools, cubase, logic, etc. which you can record your own sounds. then you can import those sounds into reason via the drum samplers (recycle is great for making beat slices)

amon (eman), Friday, 2 September 2005 11:37 (nineteen years ago)

The easiest way I've found to "make" your own drum sounds is to go buy one of those Hi-Fi Drums albums and sample from that. They usually have solid sounds, and then you can tweak them to what you'd like. It's faster for me than building sine waves. (But it depends on the sound you want: they tend to be rounder and less "perfect")

js (honestengine), Friday, 2 September 2005 12:52 (nineteen years ago)

I am getting some good stuff done actually! I have a nice electroey bassline loop and some nice pads behind it.

When I record something, can I then sort of save that as one "part" and begin working on the next part. Like, what's the best way to keep your basic song structure while you do a sort of bridge or deviate from it a bit, is there a save setting or something for individual devices?

Or can you have use one machine twice, effectively, like can I add in another line with the one Matrix synth I'm using for my bassline, or do I start a new one and hook it up to Subtractor again?

Sorry this is all sort of dumb probably but already making tracks seems a real "99 percent perspiration 1 percent" inspiration type of thing!

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 2 September 2005 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

You can hook up multiple sequences to the same instrument with the same sound - so long as it is a polyphonic sound. (Though actually if you're not having the two lines playing at once that doesn't matter.) If you want to change/edit the sound, you have to create a new instrument, and add a new sequence (though you can just copy and paste the entire section in the arrangement view.)

Luminiferous Aether (kate), Friday, 2 September 2005 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

Ronan, the best approach I've found to making my own drum sounds is actually to use Reason for it. You just start a new file, solely for drum-development, and then try to set up a machine that makes just the right sound. I'll sit down and try to make a unique kick drum out of, e.g., an 808 sample, one of the synth percussion settings, a sample of random noise/sound, a drum sound clipped out of another album, or whatever else -- all set up in a network of EQs and effects and compression or whatever else it takes to get them sounding right. Spit that out, clean it up in a wav editor, and it's ready to load back into your song as a single drum sound.

One thing I've found with putting drum sounds together in Reason: it helps if they have layers. The best sounds I've managed to put together tend to have a few things going on -- say, a kick that has a flat electronic bump at the low end, a quiet real-drum sound in the mid-range to add punch, and then some reverbed hiss at the high end to give it space.

If you're just starting, though, the important thing to figure out is how to script song movement -- play with the automations and the "curve" features as much as you can. (Automating filter sweeps with your keyboard should be a blast -- I always have to program them out by hand, it's annoying.)

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:22 (nineteen years ago)

ooh i've been fuckin around with the demo of ableton 5, and i'm trying to weigh how much damage i can do to my credit card. it's great, and the dj stuff is reeeally sweet.

here's a q: ableton can run AUs and VSTs; can you yank the AUs out of garageband and use them?

geoff (gcannon), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:43 (nineteen years ago)

here's a q: ableton can run AUs and VSTs; can you yank the AUs out of garageband and use them?

i think so. at least you could in 4 from what i remember. i'd check for you but i was running out of hard drive space so i trashed garageband.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:48 (nineteen years ago)

creating the Mentasm sound is a priority, Ronan.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 2 September 2005 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

Ableton's tempo changing stuff is really astonishing

geoff (gcannon), Friday, 2 September 2005 16:04 (nineteen years ago)

if you've got an m-audio oxygen 8 keyboard i'd also recommend NOT inputing MIDI via the USB port as it displays some latency which is a pain.

Is it possible to power a MIDI controller through USB, but not send the MIDI through USB? I have had these latency problems. And I can't find my power cord, blech.

Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 2 September 2005 19:51 (nineteen years ago)

Yea, you can do that, just make sure that the app you're using is set to receive midi in from the correct port, and not usb.

ryansf (ryansf), Friday, 2 September 2005 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

here's a q: ableton can run AUs and VSTs; can you yank the AUs out of garageband and use them?

Yes. Just start up Live and all of your AUs will be there. Actually on second thought I'm not too sure about GarageBand because some of those effects might be the logic effects which aren't really AUs but are proprietary built-in things. But anyway, anything that's an actual AU will show up in Live. Live's own native effects are pretty nice as well.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 2 September 2005 20:04 (nineteen years ago)

Ronan, Rebirth (which models 808/909/303) has just been released for FREE. Works great with Reason, get it now!!!

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 2 September 2005 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

same company even!

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 2 September 2005 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

Well the 303 sounds in Rebirth actually behave more interesting than any of the equivalent synth pathes in Reason, so yeah -- it's a great combination, whether you use Rewire to link them up or just output loops from Rebirth and load them into Reason as wav files. I dunno about the 808/909 bits, though -- why not just load samples of those hits into Reason? Much more functional, and then you get the chance to control them, build effects around them, etc.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 2 September 2005 20:35 (nineteen years ago)

Sometimes, you just want a guitar to have 6 strings...

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 2 September 2005 20:56 (nineteen years ago)

if you've got an m-audio oxygen 8 keyboard i'd also recommend NOT inputing MIDI via the USB port as it displays some latency which is a pain.

Actually, this is a common misconception about USB MIDI keyboards. The latency is a function of your computer's soundcard, and it is completely adjustable.

1) Go into your Reason Preferences window and select Audio.
2) In the Audio dialog box, set the Buffer size to a value between 128 and 512 samples. The faster your CPU is (and the more RAM you have installed in your computer), the lower a setting you can use.
3) Close your Preferences window.
4) Select any module in Reason, and try playing your MIDI USB keyboard with it. Your latency should be significantly reduced.

Tantrum sells this crap for a living! (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 2 September 2005 21:15 (nineteen years ago)

Actually, this is a common misconception about USB MIDI keyboards. The latency is a function of your computer's soundcard, and it is completely adjustable.

I think the audio latency and MIDI latency are two different things and John was saying that the USB interface built into the keyboard has more latency than using the MIDI out and a better, dedicated MIDI interface.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 2 September 2005 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

I've heard bad things about MIDI latency problems through USB but like, that's the only kind of interface these days, no? Even MOTU's top of the line MIDI interface is USB, so there really can't be a great issue with this, right? I was briefly using the MIDI ports on my 828 which I suppose makes it a firewire MIDI interface, but that wasn't enough and just bought a Micro Lite.

actually, I don't know how one goes about doing this, but can we start a new board called I Love Gear or something like that, maybe I Love Equipment would be better? I have a ton of questions as I've been rebuilding my home set-up.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 8 September 2005 02:54 (nineteen years ago)


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