Kanye West OTM

But before we do...

KANYE WEST HAS GOOD BEATS BUT CAN'T RAP
WHAT AN EGOTIST
K THX BYE

The other thread won't open for me. someone summarize it really fast.

In short, people agree with the sentiment; nobody thinks he was out of line; some wish he was more eloquent and some appreciate the rawness.

most of the affected people in the entirety of the devastated areas are white.

A Salon article on the photographs by Aaron Kinney suggests the captions were a result of a combination of contexual and stylistic differences:
Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that [photographer Dave] Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."

Regarding the AFP/Getty "finding" photo by [photographer Chris] Graythen, Getty spokeswoman Bridget Russel said, "This is obviously a big tragedy down there, so we're being careful with how we credit these photos." Russel said that Graythen had discussed the image in question with his editor and that if Graythen didn't witness the two people in the image in the act of looting, then he couldn't say they were looting.
The photographer who took the Getty/AFP picture, Chris Graythen, also posted the reasons behind his caption:
I wrote the caption about the two people who 'found' the items. I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not 'looted' them in the definition of the word. The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. there were a million items floating in the water — we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. it had no doors. the water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow.

bcuz
a) it loads
b) better thread title
c) jc's 'readers digest' thread summary

Shockingly, it is possible for a human being to be right on one subject and wrong on another.

Anyone? Anyone? Okay, nevermind.

An Army Corps of Engineers "hit list" of recommended budget cuts would eliminate new flood-control programs in some of the nation's most flood-prone spots - where recent disasters have left thousands homeless and cost the federal government millions in emergency aid.

Clinton administration officials argue that the flood-control efforts are local projects, not national, and should be paid for by local taxes.

Nationwide, the administration proposes cutting 98 new projects in 35 states and Puerto Rico, for an estimated savings of $29 million in 1996.

Corps officials freely conceded the cuts, which represent only a small portion of savings the corps ultimately must make, may be penny-wise and pound-foolish. But they said they were forced to eliminate some services the corps has historically provided to taxpayers to meet the administration's budget-cutting goals.

June 23, 1995

A hurricane project, approved and financed since 1965, to protect more than 140,000 West Bank residents east of the Harvey Canal is in jeopardy.

The Clinton administration is holding back a Corps of Engineers report recommending that the $120 million project proceed. Unless that report is forwarded to the Office of Management and Budget, Congress cannot authorize money for the project, U.S. Rep. William Jefferson's office said Thursday.

On June 9, John Zirschky, the acting assistant secretary of the Army and the official who refused to forward the report, sent a memo to the corps, saying the recommendation for the project "is not consistent with the policies and budget priorities reflected in the President's Fiscal Year 1996 budget. Accordingly, I will not forward the report to the Office of Management and Budget for clearance."

July 26, 1996

The House voted Thursday for a $19.4 billion energy and water bill that provides $246 million for Army Corps of Engineers projects in Louisiana.

The bill, approved 391-23, is the last of the 13 annual spending measures for 1997 approved by the House.

One area in which the House approved more financing than the president requested was for flood control and maintenance of harbors and shipping routes by the Army Corps of Engineers.

Flood control projects along the Mississippi River and its tributaries were allotted $303 million, or $10 million more than the president wanted.

June 19, 1996

The Army Corps of Engineers, which builds most flood protection levees on a federal-local cost-sharing basis, uses a cost-benefit ratio to justify a project. If the cost of building a levee is considered less than the cost of restoring a flood-ravaged area, the project is more likely to be approved.

For years, the Jean Lafitte-Lower Lafitte-Barataria-Crown Point areas couldn't convince the corps they were worthy of levee protection. But the use of Section 205 and congressional pressure has given the corps a new perspective, Spohrer said.

But even so, when the Clinton administration began to curtail spending on flood control and other projects a year ago, the corps stopped spending on Section 205 projects even after deciding to do a $70,000 preliminary Jean Lafitte study, Spohrer said.

July 22, 1999

In passing a $20.2 billion spending bill this week for water and energy projects, the House Appropriations Committee approved some significant increases in financing for several New Orleans area flood control and navigational projects.

The spending bill is expected on the House floor within the next two weeks.

For the New Orleans District of the Army Corps of Engineers, the panel allocated $106 million for construction projects, about $16 million more than proposed by President Clinton.

The bill would provide $47 million for "southeast Louisiana flood control projects," $16 million for "Lake Pontchartrain and vicinity hurricane protection," $15.9 million for the Inner Harbor Navigation Canal Lock on the Industrial Canal in New Orleans and $2 million for "West Bank hurricane protection -- from New Orleans to Venice."

Most of the projects received significant increases over what the Clinton administration had proposed. The exception: general flood control projects for southeast Louisiana, which remained at the $47 million suggested by Clinton. Local officials had hoped for double that amount.

February 8, 2000

For the metropolitan New Orleans area, Clinton's budget was seen as a mixed bag by local lawmakers and government officials. For instance, while Clinton called for $1.5 billion to be spent at Avondale Industries to continue building LPD-17 landing craft, his budget calls for significantly less than what Congress appropriated last year for Lake Pontchartrain and vicinity hurricane protection and for West Bank flood control projects.

From the New York Times of 13th April 2005, also via EU Rota:

Anyone who cares about responsible budgeting and the health of America's rivers and wetlands should pay attention to a bill now before the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. The bill would shovel $17 billion at the Army Corps of Engineers for flood control and other water-related projects -- this at a time when President Bush is asking for major cuts in Medicaid and other important domestic programs. Among these projects is a $2.7 billion boondoggle on the Mississippi River that has twice flunked inspection by the National Academy of Sciences.

The Government Accountability Office and other watchdogs accuse the corps of routinely inflating the economic benefits of its projects. And environmentalists blame it for turning free-flowing rivers into lifeless canals and destroying millions of acres of wetlands -- usually in the name of flood control and navigation but mostly to satisfy Congress's appetite for pork.

This is a bad piece of legislation.

AIDS doesn't care about black people.

If I remember correctly his parents said this to him.

QUIT LOOKING FOR ANSWERS AND HAVING QUESTIONS JEEZ! JUST BE LED & ACCEPT WHAT YO GIVEN! SPIN & BLAME SHIFTING COMING RIGHT UP.

My dad, who basically agreed with Kanye West, pointed out that this just detracts some attention from the crisis and the administration's mishandling of it and places it on Kanye West (surprise surprise).

Newsrooms need to be forced to talk about these things. Not later, on some imaginary day (that we all know will never come).

Now.

Mayor Nagin in particular already said that, and it was quite publicized. So it's not like it *hasn't* been said.

Personally I thought the comment both hyperbolically over the top AND OTM.

huh?

http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=45&aid=88046

(I assume thats what yr referring to)

"it's my flag. now what are you going to do?"

i thought it was conceptually bold and provocative at least.

''Whether it's the cosign of Paul McCartney grabbing me and saying it's OK he doesn't bite white people.''

He genuinely felt that he needed McCartney to get this kind of approval wrt to white people?

I always felt Kanye West is holding more about being a victim of racism than otherwise. For someone who claims himself as a champion and a gamechanger, everytime he speaks of that issue, he just seems so tired.

ok there are totally people who take him more seriously now that he got the nod from mccartney

he is the ultimate victim of rockism, or he has showed that rockism wasn't even the issue. a true auteur -- maybe some people here aren't excited by that or think it's reactionary, whatever -- he is time and again ridiculed for saying he is an artist with an original vision. this despite the fact that every few years for the past decade he has dropped some super original album that changes how music sounds. i would probably be just as bitter and weird if i were him

like, i'm not saying he is the best rapper or the best producer or whatever, but he has produced really interesting stuff and he is still just this punchline

he's one of the most critically acclaimed and popular pop artists alive right now

most of what i read about kanye is gushing praise

if you want to talk about artists who are victims of rockism and/or racism in terms of their talents not being recognised there are hundreds who have fared worse than kanye

i would assume treesh is referring to him being a punchline among milquetoasts of all stripes but especially middle of the road white people, not like the music press necessarily

and by that i mean visible milquetoast types in the media who maybe we wish we could avoid but can't, not like the average dipshit in muskogee who is only heard in like youtube video comment sections

i am pretty sure that kanye has more fans among milquetoast yt ppl than any other current rapper except maybe kendrick

yes, there are still yt ppl with issues with rap but how about arguing for the genre as a whole rather than WAAAH KANYE IS A VICTIM

yeah, that's what i mean slothrop

it's obvious he doesn't need more success or praise or whatever. but the people who don't like him talk about him in this uniquely dismissive way

and those same people have usually no idea who Young Thug is, or could care less. we could talk about the whole genre as a whole, of course. but Kanye is in a different stratosphere at this point.

the average dipshit in muskogee

not everyone has the luxury of ignoring these people. and anyway, i think kanye backlash goes beyond this, like the people who didn't want him to get this honorary degree.

they hate him because of his risible boasting. i don't think they would feel this way about a white dude or someone who worked in a genre other than rap. as far as problems go i guess this isn't a big deal but i think it's symptomatic of larger issues in america and its attitude toward black success and artistry.

sigh, i have no doubt any of the folks on this thread would and do happily argue for the sake of the whole genre, lex

yeah def. but rap's visibility isn't as important as the understanding that it is a legitimate art form that is meaningful to people. that idea is what people find ridiculous, and why they laugh when kanye compares himself to picasso or whatever. they're not reacting the general weirdness of the comparison.

this is why i think kanye should double down on asserting his importance, even if some of his creative enterprises aren't as innovative as he says they are. (the yeezys are just sneakers.) it's not about the accuracy of the claim as much as it is about his right to say it

granted when i saw him in concert he did seem a bit deranged when he started lecturing the crowd and i can sort of see why people would laugh at him instead of finding it noble in this quixotic way. ("I'm a futurist!") but i also think the culture made him this way where he feels the need to justify his right to say the things he wants to say. this shit all started with the katrina comment.

no matter what he did -- short of not being himself, i.e. acting cool instead of earnest, ambitious, and anxious -- america was going to treat him the same way.

tbh, part of his value, to me, his how uncool he is. he's a pretty authentic dude

Good conversation in this thread.

The example that got me was when Watch The Throne came out. That album is track after track of Kanye and Jay-Z rapping about racial expectations and the socioeconomic legacy of racism, often in incredibly personal terms tied to their own identities as artists, sons and fathers. But 75% of the reviews were "they're just rapping about how much shit they own."

But i think Kanye has this awkward and immense desire to be accepted by mainstream white audiences while also going on challenging pre-conceived notion about race, wealth, social justice, design, etc.

well yea it's one of his approximately 96,871,34.872* contradictions

*all estimates rough

i WISH kanye was throwing out real talk or even dropping katrina telethon bombs these days but it always feels like he's badly mishandling every topic, from 'racism is a distraction, celebrities are being oppressed' to 'i understand what bruce jenner is going through because roc-a-fella didn't want me to wear a polo shirt at first'

I think most average Joe people hate Kanye West. Even if they have not really heard him - they have an opinion on him more vehement than anyone else they have not heard.

Mishandling suggests some kind of right way for everything. Like he does not subscribe to correct and acceptable current marketing perceptions.

He is not a politician trying to win votes.

With a team of advisors.

Telling him what the correct thing to say on every issue is. OR IS HE?

i WISH kanye was throwing out real talk or even dropping katrina telethon bombs these days but it always feels like he's badly mishandling every topic, from 'racism is a distraction, celebrities are being oppressed' to 'i understand what bruce jenner is going through because roc-a-fella didn't want me to wear a polo shirt at first'

This is very true.

It's hard to get past his clumsiness and narcissism. Like a lot of rappers, he puts his foot in his mouth sometimes but still has valid things to say. But I think for a significant portion of the population, it's unthinkable that this man might have even the smallest iota of substance or artistic significance to offer.

Most of us probably see him as a flawed artist with at least some merit. But older people in particular seem to view him as a clownish blowhard, and only that.

Transgressive pop stars tend to be most appreciated by people their age and younger. Only changes when they stop being transgressive.

don't know, there are plenty of under-40s who hate Kanye

I said most appreciated, not universally.

I mean, I guess that's true, but I don't know if that has anything to do with him being transgressive. I'd venture to guess that the vast majority of artists whose debut album came out in 2004 are more appreciated by people under 40 than by people over 40.

I guess I don't think the "Ugh, Kanye" sentiment and all the baggage behind it is strictly generational.

or even mostly generational.

Or even marketing.

Consumerism/Achievement may be "the American dream" but there is some strong anti-materialist stuff these days and golden parachute bankers complain about getting shade thrown at them.

most of what i read about kanye is gushing praise

If you're only looking in music critic/fan circles then yes but if not...

if most of what you read is from writers and not random youtube comments racists then really what's wrong with you

Random youtube commenters, ordinary people, etc

Still seems to be an out of proportion dislike for Yeezy though

Seems like Kanye's anger is sort of circular. He works really hard and is clearly working toward specific, ambitious and often explicitly stated goals, and when he reaches them or even comes close, there's this sour air of entitlement and expectation that manifests itself. Like, "I did it, where's my prize?" At the same time, he is restless and creative enough that he'd never be happy simply crowned ... something, so he dives back into the next high-expectation project, with the same frustrating lack of "good job" closure. It's like he's chasing non-tangible rewards and gets pissed there's no clear measure of that kind of success.

swathes of people dislike high profile opinionated black celebrity for some nebulous reason

12 years ago today

September 2nd, 2005 pic.twitter.com/p0ZlAhDVA5

— Andrew Barber (@fakeshoredrive) September 2, 2017

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bfo4OQXAP0K/?taken-by=teamkanyedaily

woah.

Manic Kanye: classic or dud?

Classic, but with some dud moments

Kanye Says His Twitter Is His New Book

^ otm

Cocaine’s a hell of a drug

When I read those tweets the voice in my head is always Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

s/o to the half of my twitter feed that's been retweeting Kanye all day long today. might have missed these gems otherwise, thanks guys.