Why do motherfuckers have to talk through the entire goddamned show?

There's a great venue here in NYC, however, called The Bowery Ballroom, which mercifully comes outfitted with THREE (count'em, three) bars...including one DOWNSTAIRS, away from the stage -- perfect for industry shark-chum who're only there to schmooze, talk shop and push product (as opposed to actual ticket-buying fans who paid good money to see the band). Everybody wins.

and standing behind me are a bloke and two ladies. mag fields start to play, and bloke decides to sing along throughout the first few songs - URK - but i keep telling myself 'he's jsut enjoying the show, don't be such a grumpy fascist, if he feels he needs to sing along to show appreciation for the songs, then as a more evolved being i should show tolerance and let him do so. so i do.

but then merrit & co play some songs off the new sixths elpee, which these kiddies obviously haven't heard and so therefore don't particularly care for. so the bloke starts blathering on in his irritating, broad, poshboy tones aboutthis that and the other RILLY RILLY LOUDLY, and like being a total arse. so i stand up and turn around and ask him politely to not talk during the music. so he retorts "oh don't be so sad! why don't you go home and play the record?" to which i snappily replied (to his stupid question) "because i paid to see them play the songs here live, not listen to your braying nonsense in my lughole" (i really do speak like that). to which he replied, "oh, sit down" in a most condescending way which raised hackles of 'class war' discontent whichhave naturally stirred within this council-estate-refugee throughout a career in the oxbridge-twat-dominated world of publishing.

so i snarled back at him "shut your face you middle-classed cunt or i'll fucking lamp you" and sat down. and he shut up during all the songs, but, betwixt tunes, proceeded to tell his two ladyfriends what he was gonna do to me when the show finished. which was just great, as this essentially-pacifist-by-nature fella was in the mood to get medieval on his ass.

only, when the set finished, i stood up to find he'd left already. then an elderly lady approached me and thanked me for telling him to shut up, and i walked back to my car feeling about ten feet tall.

i hate people who talk at shows. i've done my level best to ruin the career of post-EMF, cranberries-aping, wiiija-signed folk outfit Whistler ever since their entourage talked loudly throughout Chick Graning's (self financed) solo set at upstairs at the garage a few years back. luckily their essential shite-ness prevented the need for any sort of noticeable action on my part...

I wonder if Stevie Chick's charming karaoke posho was the same cretin Edna and I had to silence at the same venue for B&S in '98? Another moron-hushing episode: chaps at Cocteau Twins gig in Wolverhampton in '94 loudly discussing Simon Raymonde's choice of string gauge. Oh, for CHRISSAKES...

And that queen was Lou Reed.

Actually, Zorn yelled "Shut the fuck up!" at Lou Reed, Vaclav Havel and Madeline Albright (does that make sense?) who were chatting it up during a Knitting Factory performance. Whether this was a performance for Havel, I don't know.

That said it is legitimate and even neccessary to talk over music when you're in a pub and they put on the blues band or the synth duo.

during performances of shakespeare in new york in the 184os — when shakespeare was v.popular with the masses — the audience would behave as if they were in a v.rowdy pub, and the playas just had to get on with it... as tickets were sold long after seats had filled (if there were seats) sometimes the only roomn left would BE ONSTAGE, so the stage would be full of chattering audience, who would play with the props, eat the prop food, talk to one another, comment on the action and the quality of the performance, or the fitness of the performers, or hit on the fitter performers or just plain JOIN IN!

call me a lowborn out-of-wedlock thug, but i like the sound of this...

Not sure what to say to mark s. It sounds kind of fun, but when I go to a concert I really like to see how much I can hear (of the performers).

Also there were famous fan-wars between rival theatre audience, eg the Metro Mob got tooled up for a rumble with the Lyceum Lads, sometimes egged on by the actors: "Those clowns at the Lyceum, they couldn't stage a decent Timon of Athens if the manager himself were baked into a pie etc etc..." Since this was New York, ppl sometimes died in the battles.

another related issue: smoking... i don't smoke, but i find smoke- free venues (eg bennett's lane again) a bit stark and unsympathetic, somehow.

I also don't like assholes having stupid conversations (either in person or on cell phones--grrrr) while bands are playing, but I could deal with that annoyance if I could just burn the fucker with a lit Marlboro.

I like audiences interacting with performers, if they seem to really be responsive to the music (not shouting to rock and roll during a more subdued moment).

Disagree with you all the way. Yes, as a non-smoker, I have a bias -- but more to the point, I like being able to go to shows and *not* come out of them smelling of ash.

I was intrigued enough by this story to search for it online. There's a reference to it in this interview with guitarist (and frequent Zorn collaborator) Marc Ribot:

AJ: One of my favorite live concert moments of all time was during a Bar Kokhba show at the Knitting Factory. Up in the VIP section of the balcony was the President of Czechoslovakia Vaclav Havel, Secretary of State Madeline Albright, Lou Reed, and tons of Secret Service agents. The VIP crowd was getting quite loud and talkative during the reflective and hauntingly beautiful music. Zorn yelled up to them. "Shut the fuck up and listen to the music you jive ass mother fuckers!" What memories do you have of that night?

MR: (Enormous laughter) Oh boy. Well we almost got international fame. It just shows that you can be a human martyr, spend time in prison, and still get yelled at by John Zorn. It's only rock and roll.

In my case, it's easily over 50%, which might be why I tend to be fairly uptight about unnecessary audience noise/chatter...and, perhaps, why invoking the ghost of Stokowski (who was a fascinating man, btw -- as part of my old job, I listened to dozens of hours of interviews with/about him) as a "cultural bully" seems a bit odd to me -- in that the question of whether music sounds (far) better without unnecessary noise [1] is from my POV so obvious (i.e. it almost always does) that to cast it in even slightly political/class-conflict terms seems rather incongruous, and makes me feel a bit as though I'm about to be told that I need to value other things in music so as to be more compatible with l'esprit du proletariat or what-have-you. (Not that I'm saying that you're saying that: you know what I mean.)

[1] that is, most music, and incompatible background noise; obviously there are different standards for raves, jazz clubs, concert halls, even different kinds/types/styles of home listening...

Oh, I know! (Though I am still curious about the role of quiet music in your own listening/musical life.)

i do think the effect of instilling appropriate cultural solemnity in the classical audience DID drive rowdier music lovers elsewhere, some to jazz and later some to rock. Gain (sober listening) => loss (of earlier breadth of audience) => gain elsewhere (need for music to emerge which appeals to the self-banished)?

My knee-jerk answer is that different types of music tend to demand different forms of communion; I might argue that part of the reason for the difference in audience-relationship between German and Italian opera traditions is that the relationship was a consequence of the demands of the work -- in other words, that the Germans were in pursuit of musical and aesthetic goals whose communication (using the tools available to them) inherently required a quiet and attentive audience, and the Italians etc. (I prefer to read it in those terms than in terms of superimposed ideologies, myself.)

We could also easily get into a chicken-and-egg game, trying to determine whether the rise of kinds of classical music that demanded sober listening/complete attention was the cause behind the growing commercial ascendancy of popular music, or vice versa, etc. It's certainly true that Western art music in its modern niche only slowly evolved out of a less-differentiated pool of pre-20th-century currents, at a time during which people like Paganini and even Liszt (i.e. the virtuoso, playing music that often emphasized technical fireworks over narrative and taste, often [self-]exhibited in ways that would certainly encourage co-billing with circuses, freakshows, elephants, etc.) or Johann Strauss and Cecile Chaminade ("light" music or whatever you wish to call it) occupied a very different place within the continuum -- one, in most ways, much more overtly connected to the "serious" tradition -- than their analogues do now.

they achieved quiet by appealing to aspirant Europhile respectability (as opposed to other, more subtle or complex or aesthetic or anyway less class-associated things they could have appealed to, I guess, though I don't know what they would be).

Funny you should say that: I went to NYC about a month ago, at the kind invitation of a friend of mine, to see a concert performance of excerpts from Tristan at Lincoln Center, conducted by Kurt Masur. (They did the Prelude, Act II, the Prelude to Act III and the Liebestod.) Oddly, though they dimmed the lights just before the performance, they then brought them back up when the performers took the stage, and left them there.

This confused the audience quite a bit, and I don't think all of us were ready for it when Masur began -- there was a lot of shuffling and coughing and program-rattling and other ambient noise, the distracting effect of which unequivocally sapped the life out of the first bars of the Prelude (that most quiet of beginnings). Then, during the third pause, a voice (heckler?) down in the front row exclaimed "Mamma mia!", and Masur's concentration was clearly broken.

He stopped the orchestra, turned around, and said, "Friends, it's good to be back." Wild applause for a solid minute or so, through which he waited patiently, but not especially appreciatively, for obvious reasons. Then something like this: "But this music, which is so beautiful -- it is the music of silence. So please, cover your mouth." He then began the piece again, and this time, was not interrupted.

So that's one possibility -- the direct route, as it were. (Basically the same as Zorn above, but with a bit more tact...)

Anyway, I certainly won't deny the well-documented ties between the classical music tradition and the upper classes' aristocratic aspirations -- I'd be a fool to do so. My aim is just to fend off charges of guilt by association: we proles like quiet too...

I do think you have to make a distinction between disengaged conversations audience members are having with each other and audience response (including verbal response) to the performance. I don't necessarily mind the latter, but then again, it doesn't all seem equally appropriate. I guess that if I were at a live performance of one of Bach's compositions for piano, I would feel uncomfortable with audience members shouting out to express their enthusiasm, possibly mainly because I know that's not the convention. If I am at a rock, jazz, salsa, or Sufi trance music show, then I'm going to be comfortable with it, possibly enjoy it.

anyway, that's why I don't go to gigs any more.

I didn't enjoy his attempts to sing English lyrics in an Indian classical style, however.

I might be that guy, actually! I don't generally talk much at shows, mainly because I'm pretty deaf and I can't understand what anyone else is saying. Plus, I'm a surly mofo when I'm in bars. Most of the time I go out its to local shows anyway.

so i snarled back at him "shut your face you middle-classed cunt or i'll fucking lamp you"

lamp?

i'm totally gonna say this to someone at Nekrogoblikon tonight

@how's life: lamp = punch in British English. I think it comes from "I'll punch your lamps out".

I just figured it meant you were going to turn them into a lamp shade. You know, with their skin.

i don't think any other breach of gig etiquette irritates me so much as loud conversations through the whole thing. motherfuckers if you want to have a chat and ignore music why did you pay £15 to do so in an uncomfortable venue?

and once you start hearing someone's conversation over the music it's impossible to unhear

i dont go to that many gigs anymore, but i went to my first of 2016 this week and had this exact problem. i dont get it. maybe they buy the ticket then find theyre not really enjoying it so just start talking. or they have so much money that paying £25 to chat at a show means nothing to them. the other thing is people checking their phones for most of the night (youre not even giving the music a chance? was that email that important?!). in one way its good, that gigs are still informal places, and people dont feel they have to act 'properly'. OTOH, its fucking irritating and ruined the whole encore for me. it takes you totally out of the music and into some nearby idiot's twattish conversation (though i did hear one girl make a vaguely amusing remark when someone brushed past her, touching her arse - 'what the fuck, its not 1975!')

I was at a Tindersticks concert once and there was a woman chatting loudly to her friends not far from the front throughout the entire gig. At the end of the gig Stuart Staples - who never usually says much to the audience beyond a gruffly spoken "thank you" - pointed to her and said "no thanks at all to that woman there." But she didn't hear him. She was still talking.

i think id prefer people jumping up and down and elbowing me in the face to them just standing there talking

I prefer the informal ebb and flow of the dj set at an party to a formal show where there is a likelyhood of claustrophobia and anxiety and a personal inability to handle the realities of structured time, beginnings and ends, all things which are the enemy of reverie, a co-ordinated attack on the dreamstate by the forces of the mundane. Add people speaking into the mix, whirling into a cacophony of nonsense, the thought is almost unbearable, the only saving grace would be the fact they weren't speaking directly to me, destroying any tattered remains of equilibrium

live music is awful

recorded music is wonderful

It is the difference, between a tree in a space, and a tree in a field

I enjoy both staying at home AND not talking there.

every word is a stain on vinyls

http://www.theonion.com/article/concert-ruined-by-guy-enjoying-himself-1690

sometimes i wonder what the point of going to live shows is, unless its a small venue.

for all the talk of the communal experience, etc, a lot of people dont seem to care about being there.

the best thing is just hearing it loud, but poor/possibly deafened engineers often seem to ruin that.

the best 'gig' ive been to lately was a bowie tribute show from semi-professionals at a pub/venue in south london. great sound, and a lot of people who were obv really into it.

Will there come a time when concertgoers no longer jokingly yell "'Free Bird'"? Has it happened already? I haven't been to a concert in a few years...

i haven't heard a Free Bird yell at a concert in years. doesn't mean it doesn't happen but most people know they'd get an asswhoopin now

Went to a recent house concert by Amy Rigby and during her husband Wreckless Eric's set, my friend stood directly in front of me and had a loud and animated conversation with a women while playing with his hair the entire time. Did I mention this was at a house concert? I didn't say anything at the time because I didn't know the woman (plus my buddy was getting a lot of dirty looks and I didn't want people to find out I knew the guy) but I gave him so much shit afterward.

sometimes i wonder what the point of going to live shows is, unless its a small venue.

have you ever been to a symphony concert

it is nice to hear physical instruments in physical space making sound as opposed to a couple of waveforms piped through wires and speakers

sometimes i wonder what the point of going to live shows is, unless its a small venue.
Agreed except for classical music (always wanted to attend an opera). Clubs or small performance spaces only for me. The last few times I went to an arena show I grew bored very quickly, so I just stopped going.

Yeah I think classical music is not necessarily being included in anyone's blanket statements here.

I agree though. Seeing Slowdive for example seemed like a thing I had to do, and I enjoyed their performance, but going to Terminal 5 for any reason never feels worth it once I actually get there and am reminded of the annoying lack of personal space and big splatty sound you always get at venues like that.

People are totally content with the idea of barely paying attention to distorted music blasting out of their laptop speakers, so T5 gives them that same experience but combined with that of being at a festival or nightclub. I think this is also why people talk during concerts. They already have a kind of shallow relationship with the music already, where they don't give it much attention or really absorb it yet they they like it on some level, so name recognition and familiarity motivates them to buy tickets, but their motivation for going out to the show with friends is still for the social incentive. Therefore they end up talking over it the same way they would if they turned on that artist's music as background when they have people over at their apartment, or background when they're texting and browsing FB at home, or background when they're at work sending emails or talking to coworkers. Some people aren't used to really focusing on the music in any capacity even if they consider themselves fans.

i've never been a big live music person but most of that has to do with anxiety and when i lived in philly i would miss a lot of stuff because i mostly had to go see stuff by myself and that just made it harder for me. i REALLY had to pump myself up to go to a club show by myself. and i never wanted to go to bigger places by myself. missed a lot of great metal shows because of that.

now i feel so lucky because most of the things i see live are people i know and like or its people that my friends know and like and the crowd is mostly...my friends!

when we took over the local dive bar recently for a sunburned hand of the man/magik markers show i got to spin loud hard rock records and drink yuengling and i felt like it was a second youth or something. it was so much fun. 20 years ago i might have pretended i was sick and not even gone and watched HBO's boxing after dark home alone and felt guilty all night as i got drunker and drunker.

I was never THAT disturbed by the thought or actual activity of going alone but when it's happened I have been very lonely and self-pitying. Lately not so much, as I elected to see the Lilys again by myself and ended up having a great time- even chatted up some nearby strangers. My introverted tendencies are not always debilitating. Been doing a good job persevering.

one of the times i saw waxahatchee, the crowd was really shitty; ppl talked loudly throughout the opening set (by weyes blood) and seemed like they would continue to do so when katie came out to start the set solo.

after strumming a few chords she stopped, glared icily at the crowd, and said, "why did you guys pay $15 to come here and talk through the show?"

it was pretty quiet after that.

@how's life: lamp = punch in British English. I think it comes from "I'll punch your lamps out".

― Duke, Thursday, April 14, 2016 5:51 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ah! I thought it meant to hit over the head with a lamp.

It would seem more logical to assume it means follow you home and punch any lamps you have around the house until they turn off.

"I'll punch your lamps out" maybe, but the original quote was "I'll lamp you."

cold lampin'

Oh true

we say punch your lights out but we don't say we are going to light someone.

"i'mma light [someone's] ass up" is common parlance, i'd say

it's close, you are right.

If someone tried to talk their way through a Weyes Blood set in my presence I'd tell them to get out

Would you lamp them?

"I'll pan your face in" is an alternative to lamping, should anyone need one. Could be a midlands/west thing I dunno.

"pan" definitely common Midlands parlance where i grew up, "lamp" definitely v. common here in Hull, no recent connection to punching any lights out afaik, more likely to be an archaic Germanic/Scandi verb i'd've thunk

if i had an argy-bargy with someone at a weyes blood show i would pan their lamp in. then i would pan the show i mean come on that music is dire.

kidding. don't know what the music sounds like.

CASSELL’S DICTIONARY OF SLANG

LAMP verb: 1) [early 19th century and still in use]: To beat, to strike, to thrash. [[? verb lam]]

LAM (also LAMB, LAMME) verb 1) [late 16th century and still in use]: To beat or strike; thus lamming, a beating; also in figurative use. 2) [mid-late 19th century] (U.S.): To defeat in a fight. [linked to Old Norse lemja, to lame, as a result of a beating.
____________________________

Good work, I tried googling lamp and didn't come up with anything.

I always assumed "pan" means "hit someone with a saucepan" when I was a kid, but perhaps that also has older roots.

the lam/lemja thing is only conjecture but i feel like with a lot of dialectal slang an older word is the way to go

going back upthread, I go to almost all shows alone. a few reasons, namely most of my friends all hate metal outside 3-4 of them, and one of them just became a new dad. the other being that I tend to always run into people I know at all of the metal shows I go to, and even if I don't, I tend to become chatty with strangers after a few beers, so it becomes a communal experience. don't feel like denying myself live music just cos I can't find someone to go with. weirdly enough I often find myself distracted if I go to shows with friends cos I want to socialize more than listen. same with movies.

also re: talking, I saw Coheed and Cambria a few months ago (shut up) and I was standing next to a group of 3-4 people who clearly knew the band's catalog really well, because they'd occasionally be singing along with the oldest of the material. and yet half the show they sat around talking during the damn songs. it was mega distracting because it was outdoors, so not as loud.

not quite the same thing,but I saw Suicidal Tendencies a few years back and Mike was really sick (he announced it on stage and they played a shorter set) and this annoying idiot, anytime Mike would go into one of his pre-song speeches, as he is wont to do, kept shouting "PLAY A SONG" and things like "I DIDN'T SPEND $27 TO HEAR YOU TALK". eventually moved to the other side of the venue cos she wouldn't shut the fuck up with her entitled whining. they still played like 15 songs!

"have you ever been to a symphony concert"

i love classical music deeply, but when it comes to concerts i'd rather be at a loud rock show than at the symphony, because something about that environment puts me to sleep, makes it really hard for me to pay attention to the music and focus. add in to that the way most orchestras wind up being electrically amplified in the venue these days and it's something i endorse more in theory than in practice.