"Random Rap" -vs- "Minimal Synth"

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things are getting kinda hectic in ebay-land, my friends. The New York Times has already come calling about the random rap phenomena. (Even johan "got it, got it, need it, got it" kugelberg is preparing a comp of the stuff for souljazz)ebay is glutted with former dollar bin rap singles that are now demanding the big bucks (even i, a piker, made 250 bucks on a long ago one dollar investment) based on...well, what exactly? rarity? maybe. though nobody knows how rare. plenty of people still have no idea that this stuff is selling like hotcakes. a lot of the desirable stuff comes from age-old want lists passed down on the internet from generation to generation. this and the word of mouth that comes from the mythical land of the northern soul dancer! the land of the rising sun and john bull locked in eternal bidbot combat for the last remaining high fidelity three singles to be had in peoria and tulsa! and meanwhile, on the other side of town, all those crappy looking local new wave albums and singles that you passed up cuz they were from your hometown -thus probably pretty suspect- are giving the usual suspects fits. yes, the brits and the japanese, it goes without saying, but also belgium and italy and even anytown u.s.a. two years ago in boston was the first time i saw an actual "local new wave" section in a record store. and not local to boston, local to you, me, your family, your enemies. local as a universal aesthetic. which is groovy and the collector's way. but we aren't talking about gutbucket kugelbergian diy do your homework connect the dots secret history of incredibly strange art students kinda stuff. we are talking about homegrown softcells of sometimes dubious merit. and just how minimal does your synth have to be? there are no hard and fast rules, but the stakes are raised every day. a word to the wise: there is still PLENTY of this stuff around for cheap. buy it up and slap a minimal synth sticker on it and you are good to go. buyer beware. so it actually sounds more like the b-52s and not so much like suicide. who will know? it's on its way to tokyo and you are long gone. that jonny x-ray & the rayz single on pdq records out of podunk is looking pretty good right now, isn't it? i'm banking on two little unknown new wave sweeties from 1980 saratoga to buy my groceries next week.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 02:20 (nineteen years ago)

"cold synth"

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 02:29 (nineteen years ago)

look out scott! didn't jess get shouted down for suggesting about the same thing a week ago?

vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 03:25 (nineteen years ago)

This has been happening on shitty dutch gabber records and vanity pressings of UK breakbeat hardcore for a good few years now.

Jacob (Jacob), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 06:35 (nineteen years ago)

vahid, I think saying "nothing good is left" is different from saying "a lot of crap is out there". Minimal Synth, Cold Synth, Cold Wave, whatever you want to call it, has been a fad for a few years now, most of it is indeed just bad new wave. I'll stick with those WBMX classics that I'm sure you think are so played out. Still looking for a copy of Single Girl by Knight Action.

I've never heard the "random rap" tag though, what are some examples?

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 11:48 (nineteen years ago)

yeah wot is it stuff like this?

hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 12:21 (nineteen years ago)

I have that comp, it's great. Some crossover with the Third Unheard comp apparently. The Pookey Blow track is great, some kid rapping over Dance to the Drummers Beat, "get up, you gotta get up and go to school!" then "what's your favorite subject (or class?), is it science? No! is it Math, No!" I think the answer finally is Lunch, or recess. A lot of that old-school stuff has been reissued, even P&P's put out a few comps and 12"s focusing on their old school hip-hop productions. There needs to be more comps of mid-80s stuff. The british Beat Classic comp with liners by David Toop is great but there's a lot more stuff from that period that's fallen through the cracks.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 12:55 (nineteen years ago)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ultra-Rare-Rap-Hip-Hop-BQ-in-Full-Effect-12-Original_W0QQitemZ4760678655QQcategoryZ306QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 12:57 (nineteen years ago)

http://cgi.ebay.com/12-old-school-rap-LIVE-N-EFFECT-POSSE-on-EC_W0QQitemZ4760442432QQcategoryZ306QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

http://cgi.ebay.com/random-rapp-EBONY-BROADCAST-SYSTEM-SKILLZ_W0QQitemZ4762576964QQcategoryZ306QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

wow. I'm on the hunt now.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:01 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, it's getting scary. not northern soul scary, but pretty scary. i don't think it has peaked yet.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:04 (nineteen years ago)

pookey's kazoo solo is the best bit tho!

i still dont really see how this is a new thing, at least wrt random rap; if it suddenly felt like these songs were any likelier to be played out, sampled, used, some hipster kapital groundswell in the air like hiphouse or italo then u cd call it a fad, but isnt this just the same old collectors as ever?

i'd like to see this new york times thing tho.

hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:11 (nineteen years ago)

In this area, while I'm sure a lot of that stuff is grabbed and ends up on the walls of A-1 and The Sound Library, there's always going to be dj's selling off their collections, dj's mom's leaving their collections on the street etc. It's a regional thing, like those WBMX records that people find all over chicago but are often really rare here. I think that's peaked though because you keep seeing "WBMX classics" listed on records that aren't even making minimum bid.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:12 (nineteen years ago)

the soul jazz comp prob does signal something, but it has to refer to something more than 'random old stuff' surely? even if it was only 'minimal synth random rap' instead

hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:13 (nineteen years ago)

The New York Times June 26, 2005 Previous Page
Hip-Hop's Raiders of the Lost Archives

By JON CARAMANICA

FOUR years ago, DJ Ivory issued a challenge. He had long been a collector of rare American rap records, particularly those from the era commonly referred to as hip-hop's golden age - the late 1980's and early 90's. It "was a terrible year for music," he said, recalling 2001 in a phone interview from his home in Nottingham, England, "so I found myself revisiting a whole bunch of rare 12-inch singles I'd bought over the years that weren't getting any attention." He decided to compile his favorites on a mixtape, "Hear No Evil," which he released that same year with a twist - no track listing.

Aficionados viewed it as a challenge and scrambled to identify the songs. But some of them were so obscure that it took two years for anyone to name them all. In the interim, however, the buzz created by the mix helped jumpstart a movement, broadly called "random rap." Until then it had been a private affair, the preserve of a small group of D.J.'s, collectors and writers. But through mixtapes, articles and, in the past year, a proliferation of Web sites, random-rap acolytes have begun to create a parallel history of the genre in which artists who were shunned - or completely ignored - finally get attention.

Hip-hop has never been much for institutional memory: there is no museum devoted to this relatively young genre, and many early recordings, released on regional independents and in limited supply, are now all but impossible to locate. Others, relegated to warehouses for years, were simply ground to bits. Paradoxically, the first efforts at preservation arose in Britain and Japan, where collectors, working at greater distance and cost, were less likely to take rare records for granted. "People overseas have long appreciated what America finds disposable," says Jefferson Mao, who compiled Ego Trip's "Big Playback" (Rawkus), one of the first licensed compilations of rap obscurities.

Kohji (K-Prince) Maruyama, who has been a collector for 15 years, says that random rap, still fairly new on these shores, has experienced several waves of interest in Japan. "A lot of the old records went to Japan," he says. "Unlike here, they don't grind records over there, so they're still in circulation. And expensive."

After "Hear No Evil" started attracting attention, other D.J.'s began to issue their own random-rap mixtapes (which, despite the name, appear on CD's). In 2003, Maruyama teamed up with DJ Muro to release "The Golden Era of Hip-Hop" (11154 FM WKOD), which resurrected unheralded groups like the Freestyle Professors and New England Massive. Around the same time, 7L/Tall Matt of Boston released "We Drink Old Gold," which featured rare remixes of notable tracks by artists like 3rd Bass and Tim Dog. Last year Tony D, a producer from New Jersey, entered the field with two volumes of a series called "The Indy Years," and the electronic music pioneer DJ Shadow released his own mix, "Diminishing Treasures."In addition, a number of compilations built around a particular theme - like J-Zone's "Ig'nant," a collection of particularly lewd tracks; Edan's "Sound of the Funky Drummer," which explores variations on a common hip-hop sample; and the self-explanatory "Fast Rap" - have also become prevalent.

Unlike "Hear No Evil," these mixes identify all the songs and artists they include. That's good news for rookie collectors looking to learn more about the field. For DJ Ivory, who cites a long hip-hop tradition of one-upmanship (early D.J.'s like Afrika Bambaataa would soak the labels off their crucial pieces of vinyl so that a rival wouldn't be able to copy their ideas) doesn't think that's necessarily a good thing. "I don't like people trying to buy into hip-hop," he says.

To Freddy Fresh, however, who has been at it as long as Ivory has, the more attention random rap gets, the better. So he set out to write a collectors' guide, a complete catalog of all rap vinyl released from 1979 to 1989. "It bothered me that Beach Boys and Elvis collectors have a wealth of resources at their disposal, but we had nothing," Fresh says. Released last year, "The Rap Records," a self-published guide, is a vast compilation of might-have-beens and never-weres, overflowing with minutiae and scanned images of original pressing-plant markings, to help distinguish real articles from attempted forgeries. "Once the labels folded, there was no paper trail for a lot of these records," Fresh says. "If it didn't get documented properly, and quickly, it was going to disappear forever."

Fresh's book anticipated the emergence of a full-fledged collectors' market for random rap. "It used to be where I could name the people who were looking for these types of records," says Dave Tompkins, a Brooklyn writer and collector. "Now, the information is out, and loads of people are using it." The influence can be seen on eBay, where listings for rare (and sometimes not-so-rare) pieces of vinyl often use Ivory's name, much to his dismay. "I definitely never thought it would blow up the way it has," he says. "It's a bit sad."

Fresh's catalog generated controversy among random-rap fans because it grades records on their rarity - a scale that some say values availability over quality. "I know a lot of people were irritated," Fresh says, "but I don't feel guilty at all. I had to do something to differentiate myself."

In any case, thanks to the book's visibility, he says he has received "hundreds and hundreds of e-mails from all over the world, filling in gaps I had." He is now planning a second edition. And after Mr. Tompkins published an in-depth history of Paul C, a highly regarded but little known hip-hop producer, in the British magazine Big Daddy in 2001, collectors unearthed over 15 more songs by Paul C, who died in 1989.

As random rap's profile increases, though, prices for crucial records are beginning to soar. A copy of "Pelon," by the Bronx group 360° - a highly sought-after Paul C production - recently sold on eBay for more than $700. The fervor has even spilled over into the world of CD's - out-of-print titles on Rap-A-Lot, a Houston label, can trade for over $100, as do gangster rap obscurities from cities as unlikely as Denver and Dallas.

Over the past year, random rap has received a lift, thanks to the emergence of more than a dozen specialized audioblogs, essentially catalogs of record reviews with accompanying audio available for downloading. (Though the sites are of dubious legality, the Recording Industry Association of America has yet to crack down.)

Andrew Nosnitsky, author of the site Cocaine Blunts and Hip-Hop Tapes (www.cocaineblunts.com), says that 90 percent of the songs he posts are out-of-print, including one recent track by High Potent, "HP Gets Busy," which featured the first recorded appearance of a then unknown Jay-Z. "I was told that Jay and Beyoncé checked it out and got a kick out of it," he says.

Audioblogs can get particularly specialized. For example, Can I Bring My Gat? (www.abitnice.com/canibringmygat) focuses on hip-hop producers; The Rap Nerd (rapnerd.blogspot.com) specializes in lost tracks from the 90's. On Steady Bootleggin' (www.unkut.com), Robbie Ettleson tackles different themes from week to week - a recent one unearthed songs that were never released because of legal conflicts. "There's so much stuff that people totally ignore," Mr. Ettleson said. "Now I get e-mails from the people I'm covering thanking me for keeping their names out there."

Traditionally, vibrant bootlegging indicates a significant untapped market. "Maybe a lot of these mixtapes and bootlegs and MP3's have to be out there before the scene becomes legit," speculates Eothen Alapatt, producer of one of the few licensed obscurities collections, "The Third Unheard: Connecticut Hip-Hop 1979-1983" (Stones Throw).

And some companies are beginning to capitalize on random rap's higher profile. Traffic Entertainment Group, a Quincy, Mass., distributor, has recently begun brokering deals with long-shuttered labels to put their crucial material back into print. "Records that used to be worth 99 cents are now selling for $150," says Matt Welch, a sales representative at the company. "If people are willing to spend that much money, why not put it back into circulation?"

For the most part, though, these records will remain rare, relying on these makeshift historians to memorialize them. "I'm a reporter, but I make tapes to do it," says Edan. "At some point in the future, these records will be seen on the same level as the Delta Bluesman, like the Dead Sea Scrolls of hip-hop."

Mr. Alapatt says, "We all hope that some day our record collections will be put in a museum somewhere and properly archived. But even if that doesn't happen, we can always say we did our part."

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

"Records that used to be worth 99 cents are now selling for $150," says Matt Welch, a sales representative at the company. "If people are willing to spend that much money, why not put it back into circulation?"

haha way to misunderstand the movement guy. ppl were furious when pelon ws reissued

hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

(and they'll never admit it obv)

hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

"i still dont really see how this is a new thing, at least wrt random rap;"

the prices are fairly new. i started this thread to point out the feeding frenzy aspects. 2 or 3 years ago you would not see some of these prices.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:23 (nineteen years ago)

I've gotten emails like that, "look how much this went on eBay, you should reissue this", and while it's nice to see some demand, the interest of 5 collectorscum types on eBay do not mean you're gonna be able to sell 1,000 CDs.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:24 (nineteen years ago)

post-punk stuff is on the way out on ebay. 80's indie stuff is at an all-time low. i couldn't give away a crispy ambulance record a couple weeks ago. it really is a great time to buy a lot of stuff that used to sell pretty high. krautrock at fire-sale prices. i couldn't get rid of a pristine cluster album for ten bucks. and it's not just them. all krautrock has gone down the tubes. you can get almost any faust record for 20 bucks or less.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

well i'm still unsure whether its fair to say random rap is a new blood hipster thing (ie post-punk, cold wave) rather than just being an intensified focus within the usual collector tribes - to an extent putting interweb cash money newbies in with historicists (and viceversa collectors in with the new south interest) is a conceit flattering both sides

(what about poptimists and their self-denying nuggets boxsets of scandinavian eurovisionistas eh!)

hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

I think you're talking about something that Scott wasn't. He's just discussing the trends of what goes for what on eBay. Sometimes that relates to the "new blood hipster thing" as you put it, but not necessarily. And sometimes it's a sign of things to come.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

It's quite good because while shitbirds are paying $800 for bootlegs of the 360 Degrees "years to build"/"pelon" 12" or any shitty obscure 12" from '87 - '90 you can pick up old Spoonie Gee 12"s or tuff drum machine 12" by Duke Bootee's Beauty & The Beast label and Steady B 12"s produced by Marley Marl for mere peanuts.

On the subject of rap and ebay, one of the most obscure rap records ever "ghetto chronicle daily" ep by Money Boss Players finally hit ebay yesterday. A near impossible record to find that was limited to only 100 or so copies. Dude that's selling it sounds suspect though :

"I bought it with a stack of records off a homeless guy !! it's not a bootleg, honest !!"

It's going for less than $200 at the moment. While that is a lot it isn't a fraction of what it would be going for if someone hadn't finally leaked it to rapidshare last week. I think it would've gone for $1000 + and possibly even more than the "break a bitch neck" promo or "beat bop".

Ellis, Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

Translation: "if I haven't heard of it, it must not be relevant."

PappaWheelie B.C., Tuesday, 13 September 2005 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

yeah i know that dan. i ws wondering if it wasnt a similar sort of thing to like when woebot tried to link uk rap to grime with newtrament last year etc, or rather if it could soon turn out like that

hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

Me, I'm waiting for the inevitable Fast Eddie / Tyree Cooper / Doug Lazy revival, at which point I will sell my collection to the highest bidder, and retire.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 19:52 (nineteen years ago)

well, I'm working on that. Bought a bunch of 2 dollar DJ International hip-house records and have been playing them, mixed between chicago house/trax type stuff and popular hip-house stuff like Girl I'll House You and the remixes of Rollerskater Jam Called Saturday.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

I didn't realize Joe Smooth produced a bunch of those records, they're really good!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 20:01 (nineteen years ago)

They most definitely are!

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 21:35 (nineteen years ago)


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