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Sonic Youth - what was their fucking problem, anyway? (I will just talk about them as if they're over already, since they are past their prime.)

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So, what the fuck, then? If you take them as a center-point, just about every band that ever existed was more fun than them. If not "more fun," then at least "more miserable" in a way that could be considered fun for people who like misery. Sonic Youth was about as middle-of-the-road-no-fun as you could possibly get. The Stooges' "No Fun" anticipated their arrival post-pre-post-punk.

REM was more fun.

Were they just on acid?

― I Like Bowling, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:06 (twenty years ago)

REM were LOADS of fun. Fun oozed from their every pore.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:10 (twenty years ago)

Comparitively, you're right. Good call. I saw Michael Stipe exactly 2 days ago at the farmer's market, btw. Prick!

― I Like Bowling, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:12 (twenty years ago)

did he steal your heirloom tomatoes?

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:13 (twenty years ago)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

― noizem duke (noize duke), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:14 (twenty years ago)

There's a decent amount of spooky gothic beauty in the records from Bad Moon Rising through Daydream Nation, though. Beauty is fun.

(I agree that R.E.M. were more fun, though.)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:14 (twenty years ago)

post-pre-post-punk

Heh. This reminds me of when a guy I know was mocking band genres and said "post-shoegaze jangle-pop!" and I immediately thought to myself "....yeah....probably Ride".

― Cunga (Cunga), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:16 (twenty years ago)

shiny happy people was fun. fun for the whole family.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:17 (twenty years ago)

Rock and roll should be dangerous! Like drugs and stuff!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:17 (twenty years ago)

Nope. I don't have any heirloom tomatoes. The only tomatoes I own at the moment are cherry and he didn't even see those, as they were at my house and not in the midst of the farmers' market.

Noizen, you might want to stop being a boring zzzzzz-typing piece of shit next time you interface.

Tim, you cited 2 records that suck about the same as the rest out of a full catalog of sucky albums. However, DN had 3 good songs. The rest was a study in depressive, aimlessness mastered with studio technology. Bad Moon Rising was about the worst real album they put out and I am consistently surprised by the fans who claim it is one of the better ones.

― I Like Bowling, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:18 (twenty years ago)

I like the guitars on it!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:19 (twenty years ago)

...and Sonic Youth were fantastic at ArthurFest and still have 'it,' whatever it is, so there.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:22 (twenty years ago)

I like the guitars on it!

They are interesting for a bit, but they are bland and depressing. This is odd, considering the guitars go up and down like roller coasters featuring all sorts of new tricks that they could still manage to end up incredibly one-note. It must have made more sense at that time for people their age. I'm probably 8 years younger than them and I liked the stuff a lot when I was a teen, but now I wonder what the fuck I was thinking.

― I Like Bowling, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:23 (twenty years ago)

I don't find it depressing, but I do find it genuinely spooky. And I think I like that more for its historical aspect than as music that really means a lot to me now. It's like the whole gothic surrealism trip was something we had to go through. It was important to explore the sexiness of it. I can't imagine people doing it now.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:39 (twenty years ago)

"sonic youth, the emperor(esse)s have no clothes!" is like rock crit canard #34 1/2, champ.

― noizem duke (noize duke), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:39 (twenty years ago)

I dunno, I've liked SY since I was 16 - I'm 34 now, and I still like 'em as much as I did.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:42 (twenty years ago)

I mean is this the new millenium version of ver kids saying "man, VU sucked, what did anyone see in them????"

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:43 (twenty years ago)

i have two words for you: sugar kane. yeah, i'd much rather listen to, say, arcade fire, or um...the white stripes. how about the magnetic fields. there's some f'n "fun" for you! REM- how could you mix disco, punk, and country and not be fun? they stole the B52s glory alright. never listen to anything after green tho.

― viborgu, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:45 (twenty years ago)

I don't know if it's as bad as that because I don't think the gothic or whatever aspect of the V.U. aesthetic got played out until bands like Sonic Youth and others played it out. Old time V.U. hataz seem more reactionary than someone today saying that old Sonic Youth seems hokey.

x-post

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:46 (twenty years ago)

so i've often wondered...i'm no musician or what have you. but is it true that sonic youth came up with all their own tuning? i mean, notes are notes right? there's only resonance at certain frequencies, so they must be playing traditional scales, just with odd string tuning or something?

― and another thing..., Wednesday, 14 September 2005 03:48 (twenty years ago)

Go listen to "Ghost Bitch", and "Halloween", and "She Is Not Alone" and "Making the Nature Scene" and "Protect Me You" again. That stuff is genius. At the time I didn't much care for "Daydream Nation" and i gave it another listen the other day and was really surprised at how strong it is.

I don't think there should be sacred cows, but I think Sonic Youth aren't sacred cows precisely because their work has held up beautifully with time AND they have continued to tweek and shift without jumping on board other shit in a corny way. And current bands are still finding new corners n aspects of their work to crib from.

― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 04:04 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but a lot of the stuff is contrapuntal, not really involving diatonic chord progressions. Live Skull was almost all contrapuntal - almost every song counterpoint in E minor.

x-post

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 04:06 (twenty years ago)

"sonic youth, the emperor(esse)s have no clothes!" is like rock crit canard #34 1/2, champ.

-- noizem duke (dan...), September 14th, 2005.

OTFM

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 04:08 (twenty years ago)

Sonic Youth are the antithesis of rock.

― getthefuckoverit, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 04:11 (twenty years ago)

but the tithesis of roll!

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 04:12 (twenty years ago)

While I agree that they are well past their prime, SY were, and continue to be a great band.

BTW, aren't there already a lot of other threads dedicated to trashing them?

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 04:32 (twenty years ago)

Sonic Youth are my favorite band and probably always will be.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 04:39 (twenty years ago)

1337 d00de5

― gary d'bleunre (dr g), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 04:55 (twenty years ago)

I feel that Sonic Nurse came out right after Daydream Nation it would have been received better. That album really is terrific you know. Remember that pompous girl in the Village Voice who called for the band's breakup?

― carl weathers, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 10:57 (twenty years ago)

I have to agree with the last post. 'Unmade Bed' is super-fine.

― Mr Gripper (Mr Gripper), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 10:58 (twenty years ago)

I agree with the last post but disagree about "Unmade Bed." "New Hampshire" is the stunner on there for me. "Stones" and "Pattern Recognition" are also extremely classy tunes for some quaint old New York art hippies.

― xero, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 11:10 (twenty years ago)

SY = the Archies of NYC 80's noyz.

― glabbo, Thursday, 15 September 2005 02:16 (twenty years ago)

so i've often wondered...i'm no musician or what have you. but is it true that sonic youth came up with all their own tuning? i mean, notes are notes right? there's only resonance at certain frequencies, so they must be playing traditional scales, just with odd string tuning or something?

See, I think the first part of this is wrong if I understand what you're saying. Pitches can resonate at any frequency (and can be heard so long as they're within human hearing range). There are infinite pitches in between any two notes on the piano. (The particular tuning system, i.e. choices of pitches, used by Western classical instruments only dates back to the Baroque era. It's not the norm for non-Western musics, some of which have many more than 12 pitches per octave.) Maybe you know this already and just mean that since they're using 'normal' guitars, they still have to work with equal temperament, in which case you're sort of right, which I'll get to.

That said, when people say that Sonic Youth came up with new tuning 'systems' they are just referring to the way strings are tuned on the guitar. Most of the time SY are still working with equal temperament (and on the poppier songs, frequently even with minor and major progressions just with a lot of suspensions and some counterpoint), they're just doing it with non-standard guitar tunings that make it easier. Even when they do use microtonality, AFAICT it's in a more or less intuitive manner. (i.e. I don't think they actually measure and plan out microtonal tunings although they sometimes play without tuning too precisely - "Schizophrenia" sounds like this IIRC.) They definitely use a lot of clusters and harmonies that aren't very traditional for rock though (although they don't really do much in the way of harmony that's more 'out' than was going on in classical or jazz by the middle of the 20th century).

― Sundar (sundar), Thursday, 15 September 2005 02:38 (twenty years ago)

"a lot of what was going on"

You could easily play something like the first part of "The Diamond Sea" in standard tuning.

― Sundar (sundar), Thursday, 15 September 2005 02:40 (twenty years ago)

Noise rock girls who love the Knicks are awsome. I think that explains a whole lot about Sonic Youth.

― luecke (luecke), Thursday, 15 September 2005 06:37 (twenty years ago)

you know what SY song I think is criminally underrated? SKIP TRACER! Go Lee Renaldo that song kicks ass!

― bill handhurts, Thursday, 15 September 2005 10:37 (twenty years ago)

Shouting the poetic truths of high-school journal keepers! YES, SIR!
Fry yr brain into a big pulp of nothing, nada, attempting to spit on this man's rep: Lee Ranaldo

― Baaderonixx and the choco-pop babies (baaderonixx), Thursday, 15 September 2005 12:25 (twenty years ago)

a lot of the stuff is contrapuntal, not really involving diatonic chord progressions

Wow. Does it get any more fun?

― my name is john. i reside in chicago. (frankE), Thursday, 15 September 2005 14:12 (twenty years ago)

No, fun is hearing the same chord progressions and the same beat over and over again for the rest of your life.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 15 September 2005 14:14 (twenty years ago)

dan, can i sleep on yr shoulder?

i'd like to know why we even bother with these threads...if you clearly don't care to enjoy a band, why ask? no ones telling you you have to goddamn like everything.

― bb (bbrz), Thursday, 15 September 2005 14:32 (twenty years ago)

Because I want to know what their fucking problem was, isn't it obvious?

― I Like Bowling, Thursday, 15 September 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

SY isn't over. They have no problems, which attracts bitter haters. Murray Street was one of their best albums, quite a feat for a band twenty years into it.

― power indicator, Thursday, 15 September 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

They have no problems, which attracts bitter haters.

What about the problem of being no fun?

― I Like Bowling, Thursday, 15 September 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

I second the love for "New Hampshire".

And if all my favorite bands "past their prime" pull off albums of the caliber of Sonic Nurse and Murray Street, I would be a very happy person.

― kickitcricket (kickitcricket), Thursday, 15 September 2005 15:42 (twenty years ago)

Who doesn't like bowling?

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 15 September 2005 15:43 (twenty years ago)

go bowling, it'll be more productive for all of us.

― bb (bbrz), Thursday, 15 September 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

new hampshire is a great track, no question about it.

― rssgn, Thursday, 15 September 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

What about the problem of being no fun?

If you don't think SY are fun, you're listening wrong.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 15 September 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

Go watch the South Bank Show episode on SY and come back and say they're no fun!

― Si.C@rter (SiC@rter), Thursday, 15 September 2005 16:35 (twenty years ago)

i have on a number of occasions declared Thurston Moore the funniest person in rock. "Bull Tongue" and 1991: The Year Punk Broke to thread

― bb (bbrz), Thursday, 15 September 2005 17:16 (twenty years ago)

"What about the problem of being no fun?"

Go see them in concert and then tell me they're no fun. I know that sounds like the old Grateful Dead excuse, but it's not like I'm saying they're studio works suck. "Teenage Riot" is one of the most exhilarating songs there is.

― power indicator, Thursday, 15 September 2005 17:31 (twenty years ago)

Live Skull was almost all contrapuntal - almost every song counterpoint in E minor.
x-post

-- Tim Ellison (thefriendlyfriendlybubbl...), September 14th, 2005.

Live Skull, now you're talking. Still waiting patiently for Live Skull, Bringing Home the Bait, Cloud One, and Swingtime to get released on CD. Maybe I should start a Live Skull appreciation thread.

Sonic Youth is fun for people who think no fun is fun.

― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 15 September 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

I too love the Live Skull, but prefer the later, Thalia years.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 15 September 2005 17:53 (twenty years ago)

I mean, if anything, they can be overly silly at times. Reference: every Kim song ever.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

> 1991: The Year Punk Broke to thread :

he was annoying, not funny

> Concerts:

I've seen them 4 times: Goo, Washing Machine and some later shows of indeterminable date. They were fun shows. They were more fun live.

However, their sound can be summed up as unsettlingly apathetic with occasional tendencies toward near antipathy, but nothing approaching the wallowing glee of Swans; they just don't care enough. It's like fuzzed-out, burnt out braincells. A mild irritation, a slightly unpleasant waste of time.

― I Like Bowling, Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:05 (twenty years ago)

Woops! I forgot the sad nostalgia aspect of their music, too, as in Disappearer.

― I Like Bowling, Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:09 (twenty years ago)

I mean, if anything, they can be overly silly at times. Reference: every Kim song ever.

Yes, Shaking Hell and Shadow Of A Doubt are certainly silly songs.

― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU LIKE SWANS

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

I Like Bowling, what other bands don't you like that much, that you'd like rag on?

― power indicator, Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:15 (twenty years ago)

I actually DON'T like Swans, so I guess I get the last laugh.

― I Like Bowling, Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

I Like Bowling, what other bands don't you like that much, that you'd like rag on?

At the moment Sonic Youth is the only band I feel like ragging on because I listened to them recently. It was then that I formulated my theory that they had a fucking problem and I resolved to get to the bottom of it.

― I Like Bowling, Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

SY get the last laugh, you've seen them four times

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

I enjoyed myself all 4 times, so I get the last laugh. Also, 2 shows were free and one was Lollapaloozer and 1 I just went for something to do and to see an old friend. I get last laugh. Ha.

― I Like Bowling, Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

Did you ever get to the bottom of what their problem is?

― Old School (sexyDancer), Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

Sorry bowling man, that didn't beat mine. Night!

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:48 (twenty years ago)

Did you ever get to the bottom of what their problem is?

I haven't exactly nailed it, but I'm thinking it might be related to overindulgent fans.

Vikng, I'm sorry but it did. I win. Congratulations to me are in order. Thanks in advance.

― I Like Bowling, Thursday, 15 September 2005 18:52 (twenty years ago)

However, their sound can be summed up as unsettlingly apathetic with occasional tendencies toward near antipathy, but nothing approaching the wallowing glee of Swans

Fucking hell Ahahahhahahahahah!!!!

Sorry, my musical brain just seized (and I love Swans)

― Si.C@rter (SiC@rter), Thursday, 15 September 2005 23:06 (twenty years ago)

It's funny because it's true.

― I Like Bowling, Thursday, 15 September 2005 23:11 (twenty years ago)

someone please point me to one interesting thread about Sonic Youth.

fuck yes, they're humorless. if you grew up on No Wave, you'd be humorless, too (and no, the Whitey Album was not funny.)

― don weiner (don weiner), Thursday, 15 September 2005 23:29 (twenty years ago)

The b-side of Master Dik is way funnier than most records out there. Were you hoping for Ween?

Also see:
Dave Markey's Rap Damage movie
Forced exposure Evol tour diaries

Hell, if I had to spend a long road trip with any band, I'd sure think SY and their oversized boombox would have been some fun times. They were hilarious to interview too...

― Brian Turner (btwfmu), Friday, 16 September 2005 00:52 (twenty years ago)

Brian, either you're an easy laugh (not a bad thing) or you have the worst sense of humor ever (not a good thing). Which is it? NO, there is no other option (such as me being an idiot or an asshole, etc.).

― I Like Bowling, Friday, 16 September 2005 01:02 (twenty years ago)

Sonic Youth in the documentary Put the Blood in the Music = Very Funny

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 16 September 2005 02:31 (twenty years ago)

The part where they ask Bob Bert if he would come back if they killed Steve, and then later they pull out a gun and shoot Steve in the chest (complete with triggered chest explosives) when he plays badly in the rehearsal space.

― Brian Turner (btwfmu), Friday, 16 September 2005 04:40 (twenty years ago)

Does humor belong in music?

― Baaderonixx and the choco-pop babies (baaderonixx), Friday, 16 September 2005 06:45 (twenty years ago)

If it's funny. But "fun" and humor aren't necessarily the same thing, anyway.

― I Like Bowling, Friday, 16 September 2005 10:04 (twenty years ago)


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