What the hell is Shipbuilding about?

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OK call me shallow and uneducated, but what the hell is Shipbuilding about? Is there some place in England where people regularly die from shipbuilding?

― M E, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

falklands war.

― simon 803 (simon 803), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 14:06 (twenty years ago)

There are places in England where they build ships. For a while these had been in decline in tandem with much of the Britsh manufacturing industry as the country migrated to a service economy. This led to job losses in certain parts of the country, particularly in the North. When the Falklands War came along in the 80s, suddenly there was a demand for ships, which meant that some people got their jobs back. However, these ships were being used for war and therefore killing people. Hence, the people got their jobs back, but their work was killing people.

― Robin Goad (rgoad), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 14:07 (twenty years ago)

It's a heartrending ballad about life before google

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 14:12 (twenty years ago)

The song's endorsement of pearl-diving as an alternative means of economic development doesn't seem terribly well thought out.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 14:41 (twenty years ago)

http://www.songmeanings.net/lyric.php?lid=16665

"This is a lament about how the common man finds himself feeling locked into an economic system which renders him a cog in a war machine; complicit in state-sanctioned mass murder. The sadness lies in the dual nature of that person; feeling trapped, while at the same time sensing that the way out of the trap is as close as their own mind and hands--and it is."

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 14:45 (twenty years ago)

I always took the 'diving for pearls' line as more figurative than literal - we could be doing better things - but since the rest is literally about building ships, maybe that's not a good assumption on my part.

― Daniel Peterson (polkaholic), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 14:47 (twenty years ago)

I know, I was kidding. But it's a gloopy metaphor, the weakest bit of the (mostly classic) song.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)

Not that "Dad they're going to take me to task" bit then?

I could almost imagine Elvis stopping and saying "Did you see what I did there?"

mm like rolf harris...

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

i was so sad to discover that this wasn't actually written by robert wyatt as it's my favorite thing he's done.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 15:20 (twenty years ago)

The mighty Langer/Winstanley axis isn't it? I should hazard a Deaf School record!

― A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 15:24 (twenty years ago)

Don't think Winstanley was involved.

Costello was though. With the Wyatt version anyway.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

ah apparently Winstanley was the third name as producer. Not writer though.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

what *has* he 'done there' mark? is there a pun i'm missing?

― piscesboy, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 15:33 (twenty years ago)

"task" / "task force"

― koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

Didn't costello write the lyrics? And Clive Langer wrote the melody. Wyatt recorded it first, though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/soldonsong/songlibrary/indepth/shipbuilding.shtml

― caspar (caspar), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 16:10 (twenty years ago)

I was surprised to see on the BBC page for the song that more people prefer Costello's version. Costello is obviously more popular, but I always assumed Wyatt's version was better known. Maybe not though. Wyatt's version is way more affecting.

― TRG (TRG), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 16:25 (twenty years ago)

"Wyatt's version is way more affecting" - see also his version of biko.

― simon 803 (simon 803), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 22:23 (twenty years ago)

Building ships.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

The song's endorsement of pearl-diving as an alternative means of economic development doesn't seem terribly well thought out.

I don't know -- it seems very cynical to me, as in: "Hey, it could we could be diving for pearls as a means of income! That'd be more difficult than constructing vessels of war!"

― Ian Riese-Moraine: Let this bastard out, and you'll get whiplash! (Eastern Mantr, Wednesday, 14 September 2005 22:45 (twenty years ago)

That's true. Diving for pearls is a bitch of a way to make a living.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 23:55 (twenty years ago)

I always found the Suede version the best one, and one of the best thing Suede have ever recorded.

― Arnault (arc73hk), Thursday, 15 September 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

Yus. Quite good.

I should hazard a Deaf School record!

There's a double CD with everything, snag that. Good stuff!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 15 September 2005 00:58 (twenty years ago)

Not that "Dad they're going to take me to task" bit then?
I could almost imagine Elvis stopping and saying "Did you see what I did there?"

Stopping and saying "Did you see what I did there?" pretty much encapsulates what I think of Elvis Costello's career.

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 September 2005 08:17 (twenty years ago)

The song's endorsement of pearl-diving as an alternative means of economic development doesn't seem terribly well thought out.

This SO is the wekest bit. It's in there for punning value "diving for life/pearls" - puns are rarely a good thing.

― Come Back Johnny B (Johnney B), Thursday, 15 September 2005 08:42 (twenty years ago)

The ideal version of "Shipbuilding" would have been Robert Wyatt's vocal + the backing track on Costello's own version (i.e. with Chet Baker solo and David Bedford's string arrangement).

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 15 September 2005 09:24 (twenty years ago)

Re: the "Diving for pearls" line, the "People get filled in/ killed in" bit has always grated with me... Robert Wyatt can get away with it but I shudder to think how it sounds when Elv sings it.

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 September 2005 09:28 (twenty years ago)

He sings it exactly the way you imagine he would sing it.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 15 September 2005 09:45 (twenty years ago)

You mean all horrible over-emoting and excruciating vibrato?

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 September 2005 09:47 (twenty years ago)

Phonetically it goes something like: "Suum-WAN wiz sayin tha PIPple git fulled I-HIN fah sayin tha PIPple git kulled I-HIN the reesu-HUH-lts of THEYYYRE shipBILLLDI-IHN."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 15 September 2005 09:50 (twenty years ago)

I get the picture

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 September 2005 09:53 (twenty years ago)

There are places in England where they build ships

Is this still true?

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 September 2005 09:55 (twenty years ago)

Maybe they meant Airfix ones.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 15 September 2005 09:57 (twenty years ago)

They don't build the ships anymore they just sniff the glue

― Raymond Douglas Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 September 2005 10:00 (twenty years ago)

can i just point out that diving for life/diving for pearls is not a pun. it is the same word. it is not even a zeugma. i don't know if there is a word for it, but it is an action/schematic analogy.

http://rhetorica.net/tropes.htm

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 15 September 2005 10:37 (twenty years ago)

i meant to say an IRONIC action/schematic analogy

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 15 September 2005 10:37 (twenty years ago)

Music critics pls note correct definition of 'trope' in above link, thx

― sad pedant (ledge), Thursday, 15 September 2005 12:31 (twenty years ago)

My grandma built ships during WWII (in the USA, not the UK.)

― white boi, Thursday, 15 September 2005 13:23 (twenty years ago)

Was it worth it?

― ledge (ledge), Thursday, 15 September 2005 13:26 (twenty years ago)

YES! It's worth living for...

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 15 September 2005 13:48 (twenty years ago)

mark mulcahy's version is teh best

― foxy boxer (stevie), Thursday, 15 September 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

I love the way Brett Anderson sings "take me to task".

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 15 September 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

But seriously, you'd take Brett's adenoidal whine over Wyatt's dignified, melancholy beauty?
There's no comparison.

― Stew (stew s), Thursday, 15 September 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

i still reel from the shock of seeing brett on that SHIPBUILDING clip post-dog man star, but pre-coming up era on the HELP tv show...*with a beard*!!

― piscesboy, Friday, 16 September 2005 01:47 (twenty years ago)

Wow, Chet Baker and David Bedford, huh?

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 16 September 2005 02:10 (twenty years ago)

seven months pass...

Fuck this faggoty song

― BUTT IS THE LONELIEST NUMBER (Adrian Langston), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

I dunno, I feel like this could still be a great song, but every version so far has been flawed, one way or another, and it's just sitting there waiting for somebody to come along and nail it. I dunno who I'd nominate to do that though. Neil Tennant, maybe.

― JimD (JimD), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

robert wyatt's version is rad beyond belief y'all crazy.

how low can a punk get?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I don't get the diving-for-pearls confusion up there: some stages of (even modern) large-scale shipbuilding literally involve diving, don't they?

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

Wait, wait...not Neil Tennant, Paul Simon. Paul Simon could get it right.

― JimD (JimD), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 16:36 (nineteen years ago)

Um, Tom Waits? Diana Ross?

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

thirteen years pass...

some terrible opinions on this thread

the elvis version of this song is so bad that he should lose credit for writing the lyrics

robert wyatt version is unimpeachable

― na (NA), Tuesday, 10 December 2019 20:10 (six years ago)

unlike OUR PRESIDENT

― na (NA), Tuesday, 10 December 2019 20:10 (six years ago)

it’s about 4m50s iirc

― a synthesis of Trotskyism and Ufology (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 10 December 2019 20:13 (six years ago)

Aren't we over-analysing this semantically at the expense of the sentiment? I think it was a pretty good stab at a song with a right-on message that doesn't get buried by that message. One or two stylistic glitches aside, I like it.

― Maltrsnapper, Wednesday, 11 December 2019 17:25 (six years ago)

PS Any song about shipbuilding is bound to be riveting...

― Maltrsnapper, Wednesday, 11 December 2019 17:26 (six years ago)

Lol the opening question

― éminence rose et jaune (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 11 December 2019 17:38 (six years ago)

This is a great thread.

― Inapt Authority (morrisp), Thursday, 12 December 2019 05:04 (six years ago)

What the hell is Pills & Soap about though?

― everything, Thursday, 12 December 2019 05:25 (six years ago)

Executing the rich

― éminence rose et jaune (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 12 December 2019 05:40 (six years ago)

the post from adrian langston from 2006 is pretty vile

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 12 December 2019 08:03 (six years ago)

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