A Serious Question: Was John Lennon Assassinated?

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This thread is based on the statement by Sean Lennon, who said that his father once told him, "Listen, if anything happens to Yoko and me, it was not an accident." John made the same statement to writer Paul Krassner in 1972. It is also no secret that Lennon was under surveillance by both the FBI and CIA for at least a decade before his murder.

To put it in context: in America there've been all too many young radical public figures who have died suddenly at the hand of some crazed "lone gunman" (for instance: MLK, JFK, and RFK). Such mysteries have never been solved, so I think it isn't so far-fetched to put Lennon in the same category.

Yes, I know all the smarmy wise-asses on this board will find it irresistible to make sarcastic jokes at the expense of a serious discussion. But I urge you to investigate the facts and all possible scenarios before commenting here.

Links to articles on this topic:
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/lennon_report.htm
http://www.john-lennon.com/theassassinationofjl.htm
http://www.mackwhite.com/lennon.html

Thanks for your consideration.

Torry Hotprune, Monday, 19 September 2005 05:22 (twenty years ago)

From the second link:

"It was a tragedy of Kerkegaardian pointlessness."

polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:28 (twenty years ago)

Everyone knows Stephen King killed John Lennon.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:29 (twenty years ago)

Of course he was assassinated.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:31 (twenty years ago)

I killed John Lennon with Robert Christgau's big fucking dick.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:32 (twenty years ago)

as·sas·si·nate    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (-ss-nt)
tr.v. as·sas·si·nat·ed, as·sas·si·nat·ing, as·sas·si·nates

1. To murder (a prominent person) by surprise attack, ***as for political reasons***

Torry Hotprune, Monday, 19 September 2005 05:34 (twenty years ago)

I'd say Chapman surprised him

gear (gear), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:36 (twenty years ago)

and he was prominent

gear (gear), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:36 (twenty years ago)

so yes

gear (gear), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:36 (twenty years ago)

This thread is based on the statement by Sean Lennon, who said that his father once told him, "Listen, if anything happens to Yoko and me, it was not an accident."

um, that sounds a little unlikely seeing as sean lennon was 5 years old when his dad died!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:38 (twenty years ago)

This thread is based on the statement by Sean Lennon, who said that his father once told him, "Listen, if anything happens to Yoko and me, it was not an accident." John made the same statement to writer Paul Krassner in 1972.

Anyone can say that, and still be killed by a loonie - especially someone with a high public profile, since such people are known to draw loonies to them. Besides, wasn't 1980 a bit late for getting rid of this "young radical"?

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:44 (twenty years ago)

george harrison killed john lennon because george harrison was a secret communist and spy for the kgb undercover as some hindu faggot slash shitty rockstar and john lennon was going to expose him in a song called 'yoko made me do the washing again while she goes to jersey to eat a man's eyeballs raw'

and thats the truth ruth

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, Monday, 19 September 2005 05:45 (twenty years ago)

Actually Sean said: "Anybody who thinks that Mark Chapman was just some crazy guy who killed my dad for his personal interests, is insane. Or very naive. Or hasn't thought about it clearly. It was in the best interests of the United States to have my dad killed. Definitely. And, you know, that worked against them because, once he died, his powers grew . . . They didn't get what they wanted."

Torry Hotprune, Monday, 19 September 2005 05:45 (twenty years ago)

Well, I'm convinced.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:48 (twenty years ago)

Sean Lennon's been smoking that Jim garrison chronic a little too much

gear (gear), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:49 (twenty years ago)

Whether Sean is right or not about John being assassinated (*coughbullshitcough*), I hope we can all agree that Sean Lennon is an essentially worthless dude and that his album was awful.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:52 (twenty years ago)

Does Sean Lennon still live at home with Yoko?

I think Sean sounds like a bloke who's got a lot going for him.

Chris "Chris" Martin, Monday, 19 September 2005 05:55 (twenty years ago)

if lennon had been killed in 1972 it'd be a bit more likely, but in december 1980 carter was still in the white house (at least for another month) and john was a househusband who was more interested in promoting his new album than in bringing down the system. he hadn't written anything even close to a "protest" song in almost a decade. no one had any reason to see him as a threat. ppl who think this is even slightly plausible have a seriously distorted view of, um, everything.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:56 (twenty years ago)

Tracy Chapman.

Magic Alexx, Monday, 19 September 2005 05:58 (twenty years ago)

who's worse, sean or julian? i'd say julian just because he can't give a five-second interview without whining about what a rotten dad he had and how yoko is the worst person in history.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 19 September 2005 05:58 (twenty years ago)

In late 1972, when the "surveillance" was at its peak, Lennon told humorist Paul Krassner, "Listen, if anything happens to Yoko and me, it was not an accident."

ah-ha!

"(Chapman) was no more or less ardent a Beatles/Lennon fan than anyone of his generation. His real rock hero was Todd Rundgren, a cynical studio craftsman who could not be further from Lennon in artistic sensibility."


Todd Rungren in Melody Maker:
"John Lennon ain't no revolutionary. He's a f------- idiot, man. Shouting about revolution and acting like an a__. It just makes people feel uncomfortable.

"All he really wants to do is get attention for himself, and if revolution gets him that attention, he'll get attention through revolution. Hitting a waitress in the Troubador. What kind of revolution is that?

"He's an important figure, sure. But so was Richard Nixon. Nixon was just like another generation's John Lennon. Someone who represented all sorts of ideals, but was out for himself underneath it all."

If I had the time and energy I'd make a conspiracy website about how Todd Rungren plotted the murder of John Lennon and that Todd's falling out with XTC was really because of Andy Partridge discovering old files where Todd explicitly plans John Lennon's murder. If it was chronologically possible I'd say that Making Plans for Nigel was originally called "Making Plans for John" and was about the process that Todd and the Reagan administration were currently in when brainwashing Mark David Chapman to kill Lennon. Turns out Rock and Roll needs more fan-fiction.

Cunga (Cunga), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:02 (twenty years ago)

That's a great theory!

if lennon had been killed in 1972 it'd be a bit more likely, but in december 1980

So, Chapman was a little late to work. This brainwashing stuff wasn't an exact science yet you know.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:07 (twenty years ago)

yo yo yo let me speak on dis

why i be shootin at t-dawg rungen back on 86 was coz i asked him "yo are yo wesside? yo be down with da swindon town?" and he said "yo dawg i be with you cause i am wesside 4 life"

then mah homeboy c-money moulding said "yo a-train that t-dawg aint wesside, that biatch is eastside"

so i goes into that muthafuckas studio and shoot up da place. then i finds out that he be fuckin with mah album "skylarkin at da hoes"

also i should add that john lennon meant shit to a gangsta like me and da XTC crew

gangsta andy partridge, Monday, 19 September 2005 06:08 (twenty years ago)

The Real Killer:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/celebrity/shakur_BIG/4-2-Officer-David-Mack.jpg

polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:22 (twenty years ago)

andy (G) - you can throat me.

What about BOB MARLEY?!
http://www.bobmarleymagazine.com/articles/blunt.htm
http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/conspiracy/research/marley.html

Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:23 (twenty years ago)

BTW, the George Harrison and Todd Rundgren theories might intersect somehow with this guitar:

http://www.edromanguitars.com/guitar/gibson/images/fool.jpg
note: this guitar is a reenactment by a professional stand-in guitar.

Full story here

walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:29 (twenty years ago)

Holden Caulfield to thread.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:37 (twenty years ago)

ELO did a song called Power of a Million Lights on their album Moment of Truth. If you remove the three 'n's from Lennon's surname and transpose the remaining letters you arrive at the band's name. It wuz fame wot did it. I rest my case.

tolstoy (tolstoy), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:40 (twenty years ago)

you all realize what an anagram for "Die Lennon" is, don't you?

gear (gear), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:50 (twenty years ago)

NED ONLINE

gear (gear), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:50 (twenty years ago)

Following further in depth research I've discovered that if you type 'John Lennon' into Birmingham City Council's website search field it reveals absolutely no links the the man's work. Coincidence?

tolstoy (tolstoy), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:55 (twenty years ago)

xpost you're a mad genius.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:56 (twenty years ago)

Further research uncovers the fact that if you type 'John Lennon' into Birmingham City Council's website search field it reveals absolutely no links to the man's work. Coincidence?

tolstoy (tolstoy), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:57 (twenty years ago)

Damn. Hate it when that happens.

tolstoy (tolstoy), Monday, 19 September 2005 06:58 (twenty years ago)

Never mind this shit, what about the CIA's assassination of Otis?

I Oppose All Rock and Roll (noodle vague), Monday, 19 September 2005 07:28 (twenty years ago)

Otis is dead?!!

tolstoy (tolstoy), Monday, 19 September 2005 07:31 (twenty years ago)

http://www.jodysgarage.com/images/funny/griffith/otis.jpg
HIC

gear (gear), Monday, 19 September 2005 07:35 (twenty years ago)

The town drunk never gets assassinated. This is why I drink.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Monday, 19 September 2005 07:41 (twenty years ago)

I live in a fucking big town.

I Oppose All Rock and Roll (noodle vague), Monday, 19 September 2005 07:45 (twenty years ago)

there's no doubt john was murdered.

retroman, Monday, 19 September 2005 07:57 (twenty years ago)

Why y'all trying to make me feel like Marissa on this motherfucker? It's a plausible topic!

Torry Hotprune, Monday, 19 September 2005 08:04 (twenty years ago)

Occam's Razor

I Oppose All Rock and Roll (noodle vague), Monday, 19 September 2005 08:18 (twenty years ago)

And, you know, that worked against them because, once he died, his powers grew . . .

Like Obi-Wan!

g-kit (g-kit), Monday, 19 September 2005 09:10 (twenty years ago)

"It's a plausible topic!"

Sure, I have to agree. Just a bit moot. What if?

And then what?

ALL THE WAY TO THE SUPREME COURT!

Somebody call Johnny Cochran. Oops, dead too.

Every lead is a dead end.

crat-rat 24, Monday, 19 September 2005 10:21 (twenty years ago)

It's obvious people - God did it.

He's been taking people out on a daily basis for years now. And its all done with surprising skill, using a myriad of techniques. You'll never be able to trace it to him/her (unless it's officially an act of God, of course, and even then he/she doesn't get taken to court)

And the scary thing is that he/she is so indiscriminate. His/her MO is hugely diverse and his/her motive is almost unfathomable(he/she works in mysterious ways, you know - what a giveaway!)

Obviously his/her motive for Lennon's assasination goes way back - "We're bigger than Jesus", "God is a concept by which we measure our pain", "Imagine there's no heaven" all must have led to one seriously hacked off deity.

He/she just bided his time and then wallop! No more "spokesperson for a generation"(TM).

Guilty Boksen (Bro_Danielson), Monday, 19 September 2005 10:52 (twenty years ago)

Listen, if anything happens to this thread, it's not an accident.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 19 September 2005 11:00 (twenty years ago)

Exactly! Proof of the conspiracy at the very top (and you can't get much more top...)

Guilty Boksen (Bro_Danielson), Monday, 19 September 2005 11:11 (twenty years ago)

Stephen King really did kill him:

http://www.lennonmurdertruth.com/index.asp

Mark (MarkR), Monday, 19 September 2005 11:41 (twenty years ago)

I'm prepared to give house room to most conspiracy theories, but Stephen King is not God.

Guilty Boksen (Bro_Danielson), Monday, 19 September 2005 12:08 (twenty years ago)

During the Skylarking Sessions Rundgren ceaselessly taunted Andy Partridge. At one point, after a take of Dear God, he came onto to the studio speakers and said from the booth, "Nice jeans Andy, where'd you get them? Russia?"

adsgagf, Monday, 19 September 2005 12:08 (twenty years ago)

smarmy wise-asses?? pshhh....youre thinking of hippie message boards, man. wait can hippies work computers?

ryannyc (ryannyc), Monday, 19 September 2005 13:15 (twenty years ago)

yo when t-dawg was bustin on mah hip threadz (wesside swindon colourz yo) i got out mah uzi and shot that biatch so much that he be wearing a chinese mask shit fo yearz yo

gangsta andy partridge, Monday, 19 September 2005 15:11 (twenty years ago)

He was not murdered, but someone that looks exactly like him.

He hired that guy to fuck Yoko, he realised she was uglier than hell. So the poor bastard had to fuck Yoko. Then, he was killed.

John is living in Brazil, surfing in Copacabana.

Elvis is Dead, Monday, 19 September 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

"Listen, if anything happens to Yoko and me, it was not an accident."

Yeah, it wasn't an accident. I think that's been established.

Or was it?

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 19 September 2005 17:17 (twenty years ago)

This thread is awesome.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 19 September 2005 23:44 (twenty years ago)

54 posts and no one paraphrased the Chris Rock routine? I'm shocked.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 19 September 2005 23:51 (twenty years ago)

JOHN LENNONS DRIVES LIKE THIS

CUSTOS JNR, Monday, 19 September 2005 23:52 (twenty years ago)

"He's an important figure, sure. But so was Richard Nixon. Nixon was just like another generation's John Lennon. Someone who represented all sorts of ideals, but was out for himself underneath it all."

Wow, I never thought I'd say this, but Todd Rundgren OTMFM!

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 02:01 (twenty years ago)

AN OPENED LETTUCE TO SODD RUNTLESTUNTLE. (from dr. winston o'boogie)
Couldn't resist adding a few "islands of truth" of my own, in answer to Turd Runtgreen's howl of hate (pain.)

Dear Todd,

I like you, and some of your work, including "I Saw The Light", which is not unlike "There's A Place" (Beatles), melody wise.

1) I have never claimed to be a revolutionary. But I am allowed to sing about anything I want! Right?

2) I never hit a waitress in the Troubador, I did act like an ass, I was too drunk. So shoot me!

3) I guess we're all looking for attention Rodd, do you really think I don't know how to get it, without "revolution?" I could dye my hair green and pink for a start!

4) I don't represent anyone but my SELF. It sounds like I represented something to you, or you wouldn't be so violent towards me. (Your dad perhaps?)

5) Yes Dodd, violence comes in mysterious ways it's wonders to perform, including verbal. But you'd know that kind of mind game, wouldn't you? Of course you would.

6) So the Nazz use to do "like heavy rock" then SUDDENLY a "light pretty ballad". How original!

7) Which gets me to the Beatles, "who had no other style than being the Beatles"!! That covers a lot of style man, including your own, TO DATE.....

Yes Godd, the one thing those Beatles did was to affect PEOPLES' MINDS. Maybe you need another fix?

Somebody played me your rock and roll pussy song, but I never noticed anything. i think that the real reason you're mad at me is cause I didn't know who you were at the Rainbow (L.A.) Remember that time you came in with Wolfman Jack? When I found out later, I was cursing cause I wanted to tell you how good you were. (I'd heard you on the radio.)

Anyway, However much you hurt me darling; I'll always love you,

J. L.

30th Sept. 1974

Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 02:07 (twenty years ago)

And then Lennon cleared up all that nonsense with a phonecall to Todd. End of feud. Todd recounted that part of the story in a Times interview with Bob Stanley - wanted to link it here but the article is now off-limits, bah.

Deluxe (Damian), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 09:32 (twenty years ago)

54 posts and no one paraphrased the Chris Rock routine? I'm shocked.
-- milozauckerman (wooderso...), September 20th, 2005.

Lennon died because he was black.

Elvis is Dead, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 14:07 (twenty years ago)

John Lennon is a cock

Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

http://www.zonicweb.net/badalbmcvrs/twovirgins.jpg

Masked Gazza, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

That's a white pee cock

Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 15:57 (twenty years ago)

http://www.scoopsnoodle.com/it.jpg

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

Proof at last!

Masked Gazza, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

Well, Yoko seems a little more acceptable in this photo. And John has a small dick.

Elvis is Dead, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 23:53 (twenty years ago)

I wouldn't hit it.

I Oppose All Rock and Roll (noodle vague), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

five years pass...

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2005/12/nyc_radio_the_n.html

would love to know if there is a genre or archive of radio scans in general, and that would maybe be a better thread to throw this down on. but it's really captivating & atmospheric to listen to.

inimitable bowel syndrome (schlump), Friday, 15 October 2010 11:14 (fifteen years ago)

Like Hinckley, MDC was a brainwashed CIA hit man, no doubt, y'all!

iago g., Friday, 15 October 2010 13:45 (fifteen years ago)

About that radio scan... the one part where the guy calls in and says they shouldn't release the name of the killer- was that Chapman?

I will always think of you, while (quite) fondly, myself (Evan), Friday, 15 October 2010 15:37 (fifteen years ago)

wow @ radio scan, that's awesome

i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 15 October 2010 15:44 (fifteen years ago)

three years pass...

love that radio scan

i also enjoy in line skateing (spazzmatazz), Sunday, 1 December 2013 07:11 (twelve years ago)

eight months pass...

and yeah, duh - of course he was assassinated. give me a break. does anyone REALLY think chapman acted alone?

i also enjoy in line skateing (spazzmatazz), Monday, 18 August 2014 01:25 (eleven years ago)


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