This is the thread where Killing Joke are goth.

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The lore of elders passes judgement on this waste
And finding me or them does lack accepting fate
And as the moments pass another face arrives
We watch them come and go with speed of passing clouds

Forbidden fruits of dreams that rule our thoughts my love
Of lands untouched and ways to come always maybe
But choking on promises meant for the deal
Thinking again the darkest hour before the dawn

Confirming fears that from the dawn of time have been
Retracing footsteps in dark chambers of grey lands
And through the madness through the terror we must pass
As if awaiting sunlight that may never come

In time we face ourselves with all our faults and fears
Now that i know the final conflict is within
I recognise the faces of my friends and hear the call
"Come journey, journey with me through the darkest hour"

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 19 September 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

I just got Bauhaus tickets! Woo-hoo! I'm kinda stoked! I heard Murph-dog comes down suspended like a bat! That's goth baby...holla.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 19 September 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

T/S Lyrics: Jaz Coleman circa Night-time vs Wayne Hussey

Si.C@rter (SiC@rter), Monday, 19 September 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

Is one not allowed to use words like "darkness" without being tagged a goth? By your standards, I suppose that make Billy Squier a Goth.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000059TOW.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 19 September 2005 20:35 (twenty years ago)

No, that's a request from him -- "Can you please live in the dark, to conserve energy?"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 19 September 2005 20:42 (twenty years ago)

Billy Squire: Caring for our environment.

moley, Monday, 19 September 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

Alex, you misunderstand. This is the thread where Killing Joke are goth. You might be looking for this thread: This is the thread where Killing Joke are NOT goth.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 19 September 2005 20:54 (twenty years ago)

And far be it that I, of all people, would confuse "darkness" and "goth."

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 19 September 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

This is madness.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 19 September 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

http://www.ska.ru/images/2tone/BCHOSBpose.jpg

The Ghost of Helping You Out, Alex (Dan Perry), Monday, 19 September 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

Actually, the Wayne Hussey cheap shot is perfectly fair here - not only 'darkness', but also 'clouds', 'elders', 'fate', 'grey land', 'dawn' and 'sunlight'. Just needed 'rain', 'spirit' and some allusion to fire for the whole set!

Si.C@rter (SiC@rter), Monday, 19 September 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

"Love Like Blood" is TOTALLY GOTH.

*lobs it and dives back into trench*

jsoulja (jsoulja), Monday, 19 September 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

*peeks out, sees no sign of the enemy*

Post-1990, they're INDUSTRIAL.

jsoulja (jsoulja), Monday, 19 September 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

so that would make their fans goth. hehHEH!!!!!!

amon (eman), Monday, 19 September 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

I never really noticed before, but Jaz looks quite a bit like Birdie from The Chameleons in the photo above, speaking of non-goth bands that all goths seem to love.....

jsoulja (jsoulja), Monday, 19 September 2005 22:04 (twenty years ago)

"This is madness."

Madness
Madness
Madness
Fucking madness
Only the righteous kiss those lips
Too much guessing too much "need to believe"
This is madness
Madness
Why should I suffer when I can't see your eyes?
Whose truth is your truth?
What brain can you pick?
This is madness.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 07:15 (twenty years ago)

Give me the sense to wonder
To wonder if I’m free
Give me a sense of wonder
To know I can be me
Give me the strength to hold my head up
Spit back in their face
Don’t need no key to unlock this door
Gonna break down the walls
Break out of this bad place

Can I play with madness
The prophet stared at his crystal ball
Can I play with madness
There’s no vision there at all
Can I play with madness
The prophet looked and he laughed at me
Can I play with madness
He said you’re blind too blind to see

I screamed aloud to the old man
I said don’t lie don’t say you don’t know
I say you pay for your mischief
In this world or the next
Oh and then he fixed me with a freezing glance
And the hellfires raged in his eyes
He said do you wanna know the truth son
I’ll tell you the truth
Your soul’s gonna burn in a lake of fire

Can I play with madness
The prophet stared at his crystal ball
Can I play with madness
There’s no vision there at all
Can I play with madness
The prophet looked and he laughed at me
Can I play with madness
He said you’re blind too blind to see

Can I play with madness
The prophet stared at his crystal ball
Can I play with madness
There’s no vision there at all
Can I play with madness
The prophet looked and he laughed at me
Can I play with madness
He said you’re blind too blind to see

gear (gear), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 07:31 (twenty years ago)

JEZ "JAZZ" COLEMAN WEARS MASCARA AHAHAHAHA

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 10:15 (twenty years ago)

If proof were needed:

Results 1 - 10 of about 164,000 for "killing joke" goth. (0.22 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 104,000 for "fields of the nephilim" goth. (0.22 seconds)

Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 10:25 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,820,000 for "Killing Joke". (0.32 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 261,000 for "Fields Of The Nephilim". (0.24 seconds)

Conclusions:

Killing Joke (1,820,000 / 261,000) 697% > Fields Of The Nephilim

Killing Joke are only ((164,000 / 1,820,000) / (104,000 / 261,000)) 22.6% as goth as Fields Of The Nephilim

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 10:34 (twenty years ago)

22.6% as goth as the kings of dusty black dry ice doom laden leathery gravelly death = still rather gothish.

Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 10:43 (twenty years ago)

On further refelection, of course a large proportion (anything up to 50%) of the 164,000 hits for ""killing joke" goth" may well have actually been Alex In NYC and his Gathering ilk rabidly protesting that Killing Joke are NOT Goth - whereas I would imagine that the proportion of the 104,000 hits for ""fields of the nephilim" goth" that comprises negative assertions regarding this criteria is, in fact negligible.

Therefore we must amend our conclusion to read that Killing Joke are actually only somewhere in the range of (22.6% / 2) 11.3% - 22.6% as goth as Fields Of The Nephilim: which, without having ascertained the exact statistics, I would make an educated guess places them somewhere in the range where goth quotient [> Joy Division but < Siouxsie & The Banshees], which is known technically as the "not really goth at all, although a lot of people erroneously seem to think they were" sector.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 11:02 (twenty years ago)

I almost agree with Stewart here, exclude Night Time and they're not really that goth at all.

Night Time goes a long way though.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 11:04 (twenty years ago)

1 - 10 of about 136,000 for ""Night Time" goth" (0.21 seconds).

This would seem to suggest that Night Time is (136,000 / 104,000) more goth than Fields Of the Nephilim.

Which has got to be bollocks, right?

However it is highly likely that the term "Night Time" is used in connection with topics other than Killing Joke, therefore consider this:

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,310 for "Night Time" "Killing Joke" goth. (0.47 seconds)

QED.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 11:18 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 16,600 for "love like blood" "Killing Joke" goth. (0.25 seconds)

Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 11:42 (twenty years ago)

Try any other "band" "song" goth combination and see if you can beat that.

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,040 for "siouxsie and the banshees" "lord's prayer" goth. (0.55 seconds

Results 1 - 10 of about 14,400 for "sisters of mercy" "temple of love" goth. (0.34 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,730 for "bauhaus" "stigmata martyr" goth. (0.38 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 454 for "christian death" "first communion" goth. (0.31 seconds)

Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 11:56 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 9,570 for "The Cure" "One Hundred Years" goth.

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 11:58 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,240 for "Nitzer Ebb" "Join In The Chant" goth

Results 1 - 10 of about 10,700 for "Front 242" Headhunter goth

Results 1 - 10 of about 12,900 for "A Split Second" Flesh goth

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,510 for "Skinny Puppy" "Smothered Hope" goth

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,380 for "Depeche Mode" "Fly On The Windscreen" goth

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:00 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 380 for "cliff richard" congratulations goth

ledge (ledge), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:02 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 16,300 for "Bauhaus" "Bela Lugosi's Dead" goth

Results 1 - 10 of about 18,300 for "Joy Division" "Love Will Tear Us Apart" goth

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:02 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 24,400 for "britney spears" "baby one more time" goth. (0.39 seconds)

muahahaha

Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:02 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 164,000 for "killing joke" "killing joke" goth. (0.34 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 263 for "killing joke" "eponymous" goth. (0.95 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 480 for "killing joke" "what's this for" goth. (0.51 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 9,550 for "killing joke" "revelations" goth. (0.24 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 559 for "killing joke" "fire dances" goth. (0.53 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 155 for "killing joke" "brighter than a thousand suns" goth. (0.81 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 562 for "killing joke" "outside the gate" goth. (0.55 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 500 for "killing joke" "extremities" goth. (0.46 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 44,600 for "killing joke" "pandemonium" goth. (0.28 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 605 for "killing joke" "democracy" goth. (0.32 seconds)

So, we can see from this SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENT that Killing Joke's most goth album is either of the two self-titled ones (presumably not whichever one is referred to as 'eponymous'), but that 'Pandemonium' is certainly a goth album (42.8% as goth as Fields Of The Nephilim in toto, which is surely enough to put it beyond doubt).

Most surprising was probably Revelations, 730 times as goth as Night Time.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:03 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, that was 730% as goth, obviously.


aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:12 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 43,100 for evanescence "bring me to life" goth. (0.32 seconds)


aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:15 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 205,000 for "the cult" love goth. (0.71 seconds)

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:17 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 428,000 for goth math. (0.25 seconds)

estela (estela), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:20 (twenty years ago)

Tulokset 1 - 10 noin 17 800 osuman joukosta haulle "puff the magic dragon" goth. (0,59 sekuntia)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:20 (twenty years ago)

Tulokset 1 - 10 noin 19 500 osuman joukosta haulle "harry belafonte" goth. (0,18 sekuntia)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:21 (twenty years ago)

Tulokset 1 - 10 noin 23 500 osuman joukosta haulle "love me tender" elvis goth. (0,21 sekuntia)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:23 (twenty years ago)

'osuman joukosta haulle' seems like an inefficient way to say 'for'.

estela (estela), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:28 (twenty years ago)

But, they're still not.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:32 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 392 for "alex in nyc" goth. (0.88 seconds)

I'm not sure we can trust your opinion, you're nearly as goth as a Christian Death record.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:36 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 18,300 for "killing joke" gosh. (0.24 seconds)

estela (estela), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:38 (twenty years ago)

At age almost-38, I'd like to think I'm beyond tags like "goth" (or "punk" or "metalhead" or whathave you) though I suppose tags like "dick", "a-hole", "stubborn shithead knowitall" , "irritant" still might apply.

Alex in NYC....who owns exactly one Christian Death record (vassifer), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:42 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 348 for "alex in nyc" "dick". (1.20 seconds)

Nope, according to g00gl3 you're more of a goth than a dick. You are free to disagree, obviously.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:45 (twenty years ago)

Hahahaha

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:46 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 279 for "alex in nyc" hahaha. (0.53 seconds)

estela (estela), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:48 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 985 for "Stewart Osborne". (0.63 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 240 for "All the rest of you put together". (0.45 seconds)

You do the maths.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:50 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 20,900 for alex in nyc denny vertigo. (0.25 seconds)

flaaaaaaaaaaaa, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:57 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 635 for "alex in nyc" hip-hop. (0.92 seconds)

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 12:58 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 484 for "alex in nyc" sex god. (0.85 seconds)

Honour the Google

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 13:27 (twenty years ago)

Your search - "stewart osborne" jolly japes - did not match any documents.

estela (estela), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 13:32 (twenty years ago)

Ergo I must be in deadly earnest, obv.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 13:33 (twenty years ago)

Your search - "stewart osbourne" "deadly earnest" - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:
- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.
- Try fewer keywords.

It appears not.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 13:41 (twenty years ago)

Bah. Misspell. Same result though.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 13:41 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 3 of 3 for "stewart osborne" deadly earnest. (0.30 seconds)

Results 1 - 3 of about 4 for "stewart osborne" prankster. (0.14 seconds)

???

estela (estela), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 13:46 (twenty years ago)

Nevertheless, I hope that this may help to dispel some unpleasant rumours that I have reason to believe may have been circulating:

Your search - "stewart osborne" "talking out of his fucking arse" - did not match any documents.

(x-post)

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 13:49 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 2 of 2 for "stewart osborne" "making things up". (0.54 seconds)

Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 13:50 (twenty years ago)

"Results 1 - 3 of 3 for "stewart osborne" deadly earnest. (0.30 seconds)

Results 1 - 3 of about 4 for "stewart osborne" prankster. (0.14 seconds)

???"

I am both deadly, earnest and a prankster.

I'd have thought this much would have been obvious by now.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 13:50 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 303 for "estela" "incredulous". (0.64 seconds)

estela (estela), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 13:51 (twenty years ago)

"Results 1 - 2 of 2 for "stewart osborne" "making things up". (0.54 seconds)"

Both results from ilx too - curses, foiled again!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 13:52 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 459,000 for "killing joke" three good songs. (0.22 seconds)

dan (dan), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 21:09 (twenty years ago)

three years pass...

Adorations, bitchez.

Bimble Bloody Bimble (Bimble), Saturday, 7 February 2009 18:41 (seventeen years ago)

I know a DJ guy who's only 28 years old and he knows "Darkness Before Dawn"!!! Don't you think that's bloody fantastic for a 28 year old? I do.

Bimble Bloody Bimble (Bimble), Saturday, 7 February 2009 18:43 (seventeen years ago)

Haha just realized Crutis started this thread. Oh man, Croot. This is a good one.

Bimble Bloody Bimble (Bimble), Saturday, 7 February 2009 18:44 (seventeen years ago)

Playing "Darkness Before Dawn", now.

Holy shit, you have got it down, man, that is where the goth is.
You have grasped the meaning of the Goth. Right there.

Bimble Bloody Bimble (Bimble), Saturday, 7 February 2009 18:48 (seventeen years ago)

I'll fight anyone who says that song isn't goth. Let's go.

Bimble Bloody Bimble (Bimble), Saturday, 7 February 2009 18:50 (seventeen years ago)

three weeks pass...

landfill indie is dead so...

NME in 2009 decide that goth / dark rock / post-punk is fashionable once again

Release The Bats - It's The 20 Greatest Goth Tracks
http://bit.ly/qBY8k

even Killing Joke are namechecked

11. Killing Joke – Love Like Blood
Aligning love and sex with blood is a standard goth trope, but Jaz Coleman's lyrics always cut deeper than the usual 'doomed romance' cliches. On this 1985 single, one of the few times KJ ever troubled 'Top Of The Pops', he uses martial imagery to create a sense of apocalyptic struggle.
Most gothic moment: "Strength and beauty destined to decay".

djmartian, Friday, 6 March 2009 14:36 (sixteen years ago)

The comments at the bottom are Classick:

igor //March 6 2009 at 11:39
hey....what th....is this... Do you really think that My Chemical...is more goth than any song by Fields Of The Nephilim, The Mission.... This Corrosion is not a goth song it's a pop song....but First and last and always, No time to cry.....please stop making those stupid and mostly out of any sence list....regards from Croatia buaaaaaaaaaaaa

goth lover //March 6 2009 at 15:26
the nme is the biggest pile of shit i have the disgrace of being exposed to. complete musical hypocricy. these new puritans a goth band? are you even real? dick features

monkeyman //March 6 2009 at 16:49
it doesent make a band more goth if they're not popular... All of you people listing Goth bands that you think noone else has heard of doesent make you more goth... il say no more

Sleep Tundra (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 6 March 2009 19:03 (sixteen years ago)

I just got Bauhaus tickets! Woo-hoo! I'm kinda stoked! I heard Murph-dog comes down suspended like a bat! That's goth baby...holla.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, September 19, 2005 8:21 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol @ myself, what a dork

straight up, you're payin' jacks just to hear me phase (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 6 March 2009 19:21 (sixteen years ago)

one month passes...

you goth

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:04 (sixteen years ago)

Zzzzzz

Alex in NYC, Monday, 20 April 2009 20:17 (sixteen years ago)

There you go, talkin about Killing Joke again!

Just one thing I was thinking about as I was getting on the copter (J0hn D.), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:17 (sixteen years ago)

ironically bimble says hes a goth but isnt a goth!

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:25 (sixteen years ago)

so totally true

Just one thing I was thinking about as I was getting on the copter (J0hn D.), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:26 (sixteen years ago)

He's London After Midnight.

Nicodle Otago (Nicole), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:28 (sixteen years ago)

so basically if you deny you're a goth you're a goth and if you say you're a goth then you're not a goth?

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:30 (sixteen years ago)

no, if I say you aren't goth you aren't and if I don't say anything then you might be

Just one thing I was thinking about as I was getting on the copter (J0hn D.), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:31 (sixteen years ago)

So are Killing Joke goth?

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:32 (sixteen years ago)

of course not

Just one thing I was thinking about as I was getting on the copter (J0hn D.), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:35 (sixteen years ago)

except on this thread, they are goth on this thread

Just one thing I was thinking about as I was getting on the copter (J0hn D.), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:35 (sixteen years ago)

goddamnit

rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:35 (sixteen years ago)

this is the thread

Bo, a 6-month-jackson Portuguese overdrive (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 20 April 2009 20:37 (sixteen years ago)

I'm confused by being suprised a 28 year old knows a KJ song ... I liked them when I was like, 16?

one art, please (Trayce), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 01:30 (sixteen years ago)

PS "Night Time" at the leat is GAF. Repeated plays of "Love like Blood", Europe" and "Eighties" at many goff clubs attest to this. I has spoken.

one art, please (Trayce), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 01:30 (sixteen years ago)

Just because the luckless, extra-chromosomed slackjaws at some random goth club play a track, that does not make that song and its creators fucking goth.

Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 21 April 2009 01:44 (sixteen years ago)

The fact I listen to Animal Collective and Genesis doesnt make me goth either but try telling anyone here that.

one art, please (Trayce), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 01:55 (sixteen years ago)

This thread has much funnier googling than that "Gaydiohead" one

Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 21 April 2009 02:31 (sixteen years ago)

Forget goth--why is i so wrong to say a good deal of Joke is metal?

i, grey, Tuesday, 21 April 2009 05:58 (sixteen years ago)

Good point that.

*hides from Alex*

one art, please (Trayce), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 06:11 (sixteen years ago)

I'm confused by being suprised a 28 year old knows a KJ song ... I liked them when I was like, 16?

Haha, I sympathize with this somehow. I think it's called getting older.

Earl of Gothington Manor (Bimble), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 06:17 (sixteen years ago)

Forget goth--why is i so wrong to say a good deal of Joke is metal?

Are there elements of metal to Killing Joke's sound? Absolutely. Does that make them a metal band? Absolutely not. (There are certainly element of metal to fuckin' Loverboy's sound -- does that make them a metal band? Methinks not).

Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 12:20 (sixteen years ago)


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