Cultural composition of pop audiences

No. Kraftwerk didn't have much of a black audience, except for Afrika Bambaataa and the Electrifyin' Mojo. It's the 'quality' of the audience that counts, not ther size. ('Quality' here = the sort of people who 'form their own bands' etc. even if they're the proverbial 10 people in the audience)

but the implication I got from both is that black representation somehow legitimises a show or club.
I think it has to do with the tension that's created when one group uses language and style from another. Of course they want to present it as authentic, even though by then it's probably become something else. Getting props from the ones who originally came up with it is the greatest compliment you can get as an organizer or scene so yeah, I can imagine folks counting black faces in this case, ignorant as it may be in the end. If much of the validation (from either end, be it the white organizer or the black punter) is based on the amount of 'true niggaz' in the room, then people need to ask themselves what a 'true nigga' really is. Whether a music's audience is mixed or not should be of no consequence. I mean, you're sharing an experience you mutually enjoy, regardless of your color or background. I'm not white, yet I actively participate in a predominantly white scene. No riot so far.

I was just thinking of this issue yesterday as years ago when I was at a Fishbone show (an all black ska/rock band for those not in the know) how Angelo, the crazed lead singer, thanked the few blacks at the show for coming, saying something like ska isn't what brothers are playin on the streets. It doesn't sit well with me because I want to buy into the "music is for anyone with a pulse" ideal.... the most glaring example of this question still has to be hip-hop, as the majority of the kids who buy the records are white, although the impression I get from videos and press is that the concerts are still more black then white. I once heard Ice T claim that he wasn't surprised by the majority of rap listeners being white because black kids are more likely to just boot their friends albums instead of paying. An obvious dodge of the issue on his part.

I, too, get irritated by comments like, "That artist is sooo White" or "The audience was whiter than ..." But I don't think people are trying to legitimize the show/club/artist/etc.. They don't care whether the music itself is multicultural - they're trying to legitimize themselves, not the show. I think it's self- deprecating guilt. The people that make comments like that are insecure about whether or not black people will accept them. They're distancing themselves from the white stereotype of squareness.

Anything that bridges whatever racial gaps exist is a good thing - so multicultural art is important... but that doesn't make "all white" or "all black" art improper.

You don't see a lot of elderly people at the punk shows & you don't see a lot of young hipsters at the Glenn Miller Band revival (or whatever it is that old people listen to.) That doesn't take away from the enjoyment either group is getting while being segregated.

― Dave225, Tuesday, 19 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

but the implication I got from both is that black representation somehow legitimises a show or club.

White liberal self-hatred. Romanticisation of 'black culture' as being more 'real', 'authentic' (even in the digital era these ideas still have weight...eg Timbaland uses the same software as anybody else but he wrings some extra funkiness out of the equipment). This kind of thing includes Eno's 'putting Africa into the computer' notions as discussed on another thread. It's been going on since the 19th century (?), and I've been guilty of it myself.

I think the criticism actually takes all this fawning pro-blackness into account though. When you're talking about vaguely black aligned music and then you make a point of saying how white the audience is, what you're saying is that it's a blackness primarily designed for white people to appreciate ie. to get all wrong. In other words, "those white people think they're being hip because they're listening to black shit, but that ain't no way the black shit that black people are listening to!"

So in other words what we're dealing with here is *second-tier* pro-black hipsterism. It can be right or wrong in different situations - I'm prepared to accept the argument that jungle's decine went hand in hand with its explosion in popularity among white audiences, to name one obvious example. As a one-size- fits-all criticism for any music you care to mention it's obviously somewhat dubious.

That's going to be my favorite new phrase; "Obviously dubious." Love it. Really.