Taking Sides: Pop Scritti Politti v. Post-Punk Scritti Politti

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When I was a teenager, I always hated Green's squeaky high pitched voice and girl-ish good looks, and so concluded that pop Scritti were teh suck. More recently I have been exposed to their song 'The "Sweetest" Girl", and find that I still do not like it. So Pop Scritti - nul points.

However, the one post-punk Scritti track I have heard - 'Skank Bloc Bologna' - weaves a tangled course through my brain, in a manner that causes me enjoyment.

Therefore, I conclude that post-punk Scritti are the best.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Pop - easily.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

The skanky bologna didn't start tasting good until he injected sweet girls into the mix.

(But I do wish he'd included "Jacques Derrida" on Cupid & Psyche '85.)

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Post-punk.

the 4 A-sides 12" is one of my favorite releases ever.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Both crap.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll take the pop, thanks. Cupid & Pscyhe '85 can't be beat.

― There's a Tipsy Ghost on the edge of my couch (Bimble...), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Gotta differ with you on that one, Bimbz.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll go with post-punk, although I think their songs from that period that lean most heavily towards pop (like "Confidence" - God what a good song) are the best. Green definitely had a strong melodic sensibility, and the way it scraped up against all the rhythmic oddness and half-digested Marxist rhetoric in the early material was the real excitement of the band. Once that friction was resolved they got a lot less interesting, to my ears. "Songs to Remember" (which has "Jacques Derrida," by the way) is full of great moments, but a lot of it seems pastiche-y and overwrought, like "Look at me do soul," etc. The production on "Cupid & Psyche" is so dated it's hard for me to even listen to (and Michael Jackson imitations were definitely not what Green was put on Earth to do). Never heard the albums after that. Am I missing anything?

― goodoldneon (goodoldneon), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I understand Alex, but I'm willing to bet you can think of even worse music in the world. Or perhaps I'm wrong?

― There's a Tipsy Ghost on the edge of my couch (Bimble...), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, never mind. I just read what you wrote about it on the other thread.

― There's a Tipsy Ghost on the edge of my couch (Bimble...), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

"S.B.B." aside, I somehow managed to miss the post-punk Scritti until finding a copy of Early in the used (!) bin. I'm ashamed I didn't hear it before now. It's amazing - sort of a male version of the first Raincoats album in that it keeps threatening to collapse but never does. Also like that weird middle period circa "The 'Sweetest' Girl," where Green has decided to go pop but hasn't quite figured the language out yet.

Now that I've read Rip It Up and Start Again's account of the Scritti story, their post post-punk years are even more confusing. Green's musical journey has taken him from from dialectic-obsessed Socialist post-punk, to fluffy Eighties popstar, to mysterious recluse, and now to overgrown hip-hop kid. Talk about exploring the musical universe.

― mike a, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 19:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Never really understood the fuss about the post-punk SP output. Perhaps I gravitate towards the pop material (Songs To Remember and Cupid & Psyche 85) because I heard it first.

But both of those albums are prime examples of 80s pop. Cupid & Psyche is so slick!

The post-punk stuff seems so purposefully obfuscated and oddball.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

purposefully obfuscated and oddball

Which is one reason I like it so much!

― mike a, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

The post-punk stuff seems so purposefully obfuscated and oddball.

Yes, I find it hard to follow, myself. Just boring.

― There's a Tipsy Ghost on the edge of my couch (Bimble...), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

i vote pop because it's the only scritti i know aside from "jacques derrida". the interview with mr gartside that simon reynolds has on his book site interested me in the early stuff, but it almost seems more interesting to read about than hear at this point. (w/r/t my own musical tastes not that the music doesn't merit listening.)

― tricky (disco stu), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, conflict. Both stages are wonderful (although I haven't heard too much Scritti past 1985).

― Ian Riese-Moraine: Let this bastard out, and you'll get whiplash! (Eastern Mantr, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Has anybody heard "Anomie and Bonhomie" (the hip-hop album)? Is it totally embarrassing?

― goodoldneon (goodoldneon), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

It's great. Better than 'Provision' that proceeded it (by 11 years!).

― robertw, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

preceeded

― robertw, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Post-punk.
the 4 A-sides 12" is one of my favorite releases ever

Dan — Human League in the Travelogue- or Dare!-era?

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

"Messthetics"!!!!

― mcd (mcd), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

matt-

Human League in the Dare! era, but I prefer Heaven 17 to Human League.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

It's great. Better than 'Provision' that proceeded it (by 11 years!).

No it isn't.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

'Early' is fantastic! Don't listen to the people who are paid to diss the thing. Dust that thing off!

― kidnapping and blackmail (dymaxia), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Post-punk, followed by early pop. Still can't stomach 'Cupid' and the other over-produced stuff that followed.

― I.M. (I.M.), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Every Pop record Green made is marble-carved, immortal, essential genius. Pre-Songs to Remember just isn't, right?

― I Oppose All Rock and Roll (noodle vague), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

wrong.

punk scritti wins this by miles.

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)

it's a draw.

― strng hlkngtn (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

x post

Right.

It's the difference between unstructured exuberance and patiently crafted art.

― I Oppose All Rock and Roll (noodle vague), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)

That's true, and I'm fond of both, hence why I love both stages.

― Ian Riese-Moraine: Let this bastard out, and you'll get whiplash! (Eastern Mantr, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 22:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i used to make finger-on-the-pause-button remixes of (pop) scritti tracks when i was 12. they were perfect for that because they usually put instrumentals on the b-sides of their 7"s.

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Pop, for sure. Songs to remember is pop anyways, Early just can't compete with the brilliance of Cupid & Psyche and Songs. No matter how great Skank Bloc Bologna is, Green shoveled the genius in with Cupid. End of story.

― Gerard (Gerard), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

x post Ian

I love both too, it's true. Strungo's right. I just feel like Popolitti is under-loved for bad reasons.

― I Oppose All Rock and Roll (noodle vague), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, the genius behind pop-phase Scrits is too subtle for most to pick up on. Many people dismiss it as mindless pop, but show them the lyrics and they'll complain that Green sounds like he swallowed a dictionary. "I've got a new hermeneutic, I've found a new paradigm, I've got a plan to make you mine..."

― Ian Riese-Moraine: Let this bastard out, and you'll get whiplash! (Eastern Mantr, Tuesday, 20 September 2005 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm still pathetically amused by "I got a reason girl/It's Immanuel Kant's" after 15-odd years.

― I Oppose All Rock and Roll (noodle vague), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"Dan — Human League in the Travelogue- or Dare!-era?"

i like almost all of it, but for me, that fascination ep is some sort of godhead (although that might have been just an american thing, that ep. i can't remember).and by far my fave thing to listen to by them. i remember buying songs to remember after cupid came out and feeling gyped! what was this stuff!? cupid & psyche is, of course, godhead as well. or most of it anyway.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 20 September 2005 23:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Post-punk scritti wins. I still can't figure out what's to like about the pop stuff.

― fizzcaraldo (Justin M), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 03:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I find Early pretty much unlistenable.

― brittle-lemon (brittle-lemon), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 04:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Pop Scritti, definitely.

― Roz (Roz), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 04:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Provision is their best. Oh Patti is just plain gorgeous, Green naked, pure, for once stripping away the self-conscious cleverness. First Boy In This Town(Lovesick), All That We Are and Philosophy Now are on the same level of brilliance.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 08:53 (twenty-one years ago)

God I need to hear Oh Patti again now.

I like pop more, I respect the post-punk stuff a lot but I never play it.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 09:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I respect the early stuff too, actually maybe I'm a bit hard on it. I got 'Early' and a lot of it is better than I remembered, but I find it a bit dry and indegestible. In the pop era he got the balance between cleverness and killer tunes just about right.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 09:41 (twenty-one years ago)

GREEN GARTSIDE WILL NOT DIE

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ!!!, Wednesday, 21 September 2005 09:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Are the Scritti Polittis non-threatening? I don't like threatening music. Hey, Alex in NYC, you know all about non-threatening music (like those Killing Joke lads) - can you tell me?

― Chris "Chris" Martin, Wednesday, 21 September 2005 09:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh God, you're going to rip off "The 'Sweetest Girl'" for your next single, aren't you?

― Ian Riese-Moraine: Let this bastard out, and you'll get whiplash! (Eastern Mantr, Wednesday, 21 September 2005 10:03 (twenty-one years ago)

That sounds like a songtitle I would like. I might use it.

I can't understand this Skank Block business, through.

― Chris "Chris" Martin, Wednesday, 21 September 2005 10:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Both crap.

Alex! Don't say that!

I dunno, I think I'll go with the Pop side for sentimental reasons. Also because I love *all* of it. I love the Post Punk period as well, but I quickly tired of it and I mainly obsessed over a few tracks.

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 10:11 (twenty-one years ago)

i guess i like 'songs to remember' more than 'cupid' or 'early'.

― N_RQ, Wednesday, 21 September 2005 10:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I just discovered that I have the extended mix of Oh Patti on my ipod! I guess it was stuck on the end of the CD. Anyway - fucking fantastic - the 'late night' feel of the synth/bells/piano is just majestic. Walking home in the rain, drinking scotch alone in soft misery... etc etc. This is what the Blue Nile are supposed to sound like, if you believe the exaggerated claims, but don't. "There's no-one out here you can listen to/and certainly never yourself"

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

No - I refuse to take sides. Both of them are a valid answer in this case.

The SBB Scritti, with the squatter mentality and the situationist idealism is briliant.

But no less brilliant than the concept that thought up Asylums In Jerusalem or Wood Beez (Pray Like Aretha Franklin)

― Guilty Boksen (Bro_Danielson), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Neither. When it came out, "SBB" was the best thing I'd ever heard. (It still sounds pretty damn good.) "Confidence" is wonderful, and the later falling-apart-and-forgetting-how-to-play period has its moments ("The problem's in hand at Scritlock's door, the issue won't go away...") But "The 'Sweetest Girl'", when *that* came out (on /C81/), was by far the best thing I'd ever heard - and I'm very tempted to say that it still is. "Jacques Derrida" and "Lions after slumber" come close, but most of /Songs to Remember/ is just trying too hard. It all went to hell after that - I find /C&P85/ flat-out unlistenable, too sweetly well-meaning to be funky and too anxious for that 80s pop sheen to have the courage of its own pretentiousness. (Not a problem I'm having, eh readers?)

What happened to Tom and Niall, that's what I want to know.

― 45, married, Saturday, 24 September 2005 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Flat-out unlistenable ? Holy..

Pop

― blunt (blunt), Saturday, 24 September 2005 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

two years pass...

Pop-Punk Scritti Politti

― stephen, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 01:35 (eighteen years ago)

ah, the battle of rockists v. popists. I think more artists should make smart pop like Scritti Politti

― burt_stanton, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 02:01 (eighteen years ago)

Considering pop Scritti started already with their debut album, this is one easy match.

They were of course never better than on the wonderful "Cupid & Psyche 85" album.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 07:20 (eighteen years ago)

ah, the battle of rockists v. popists. I think more artists should make smart pop like Scritti Politti

Smart pop=rockist pop ;)

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 07:21 (eighteen years ago)

popist rock?

― Mark G, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 08:28 (eighteen years ago)

pop kist

― Chewshabadoo, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 09:31 (eighteen years ago)

It's a tie!!

― King Boy Pato, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 10:56 (eighteen years ago)

the early shit, I like quite a bit. Turning Robert Wyatt into usable pop is pretty cool. "Confidence" is ace. I mean, I hate '80s music in general (exceptions, of course, but mostly what was popular in the '80s, that horrible drum sound and so forth, I can't stand), but I love Cupid & Psyche. Also quite like White Bread or whatever that was called. the other Scritti records--shit like "Boom! There She Was"--are marginal, kinda interesting I guess.

― whisperineddhurt, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 16:34 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah Cupid & Psyche is an album I thought would have dated much worse than it has considering the (then state-of-the-art) sounds it used. I still find it quite enjoyable.

― Bimble, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

http://itsallgood.foodpages.ca/itemimmgs/thumb_51926_ItsAllGood_.jpg

― Bodrick III, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 17:37 (eighteen years ago)

Bought Cupid and Psyche on vinyl for 30p in MVE a couple of weeks back - had all the singles on 7" back in the day but never bought the album..

Great record...

― Jack Battery-Pack, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 17:38 (eighteen years ago)

Smart pop=rockist pop ;)

oh my god i think Geir is right

― stephen, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 20:37 (eighteen years ago)

lock not merely thread but the entire universe

― whisperineddhurt, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 22:20 (eighteen years ago)

Uh...you seem to have confused "mod" with "god". It's a nice concept, though.

― Bimble, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 22:29 (eighteen years ago)

my pain, my apparition, my pills, my soul patch

― whisperineddhurt, Thursday, 10 July 2008 04:38 (eighteen years ago)

Dearest Hongo, I don't think "smart pop" is rockist pop ... there's no claim to authenticity or any of that old crap. Is Roxy Music - Avalon rockist? The dude was a working class schlubbo self-styled as some kind-of glamor icon. It's the opposite of rockist if anything.

― burt_stanton, Thursday, 10 July 2008 05:00 (eighteen years ago)

I've never understood why Scritti Politti's pop was supposed to be smart anyway. His interviews are smart, and his theoretical discussions of his songs are smart, but if I was unaware of that, the songs in and of themselves would not strike me as particularly smart.

― filthy dylan, Thursday, 10 July 2008 05:10 (eighteen years ago)

Cupid and Psyche 85 is a reference to Lucius Apuleius's The Golden Ass ... even the video is about that book (even though it says it's about A Midsummer's Night Dream, that's probably because nobody had much of a clue about the Ass and the rose/Isis references).

He uses those elements as part of the music and really makes something wonderful from it. That's why overly literate dorks call this crap 'smart pop'

― burt_stanton, Thursday, 10 July 2008 05:16 (eighteen years ago)

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