taking sides: grubbs vs o'rourke

the best parts of gastr del sol were always the compositions where o'rourke's presence could be felt the most strongly. the beautiful 'mouth canyon' on camofleur, for example.

grubbs is definitely the less ironic or cheeky of the two, but his music is by no means as exciting.

jim o'rourke may have outlived his welcome with albums of sardonic, ironic pop ... but at least he didn't turn into john denver like david grubbs.

I will go with O'rourke, because of his minimalist fondness.

And I really didnt dig BASTRO.

ok, i totally love both of the new jim orouke cd's. i think insignificance(sic) was one of the most rockin cd's of last year. i didn't really see it as sardonic in the musical sense, as compared to the lyrics, which is totally evident. i don't think grubbs' solo efforts have matched the output that o'rourke has released in the years after gastr del sol.

i like to pretend that o'rourke & grubbs were lovers and now they hate each other and send bitchy letters about how shit the other's latest project is, but then i do have a lot of spare time on my hands

I like to imagine that Grubbs and O'rourke are MY ex-lovers, and they are ripping ME off.

O'Rourke cause he digs Slint and Spice Grrrls.

O'Rourke cause he digs Slint and Spice Grrrls.

Grubbs grew up in the same town as Slint, so it's more than likely he digs 'em, too. Actually, he's told me as much.

I can't really get into anything he's done post-Gastr, but Grubbs has made his contributions, from Squirrel Bait to Bastro (great band, btw) to Gastr to releasing some good records by other people (although some of the stuff he's released on Blue Chopsticks has been kinda spotty).

Of the two, I listen to O'Rourke more often and actually bought his last two records (the Drag City rocker and the Mego electronix, more into the latter than the former). His stuff, for some reason, has had more lasting power for me.

They both bug me, as does the whole "we're totally avant garde but we indie rock on the side" thing. That said, O'Rourke is a million billion times better. Gastr del Sol were totally insufferably bad, but JR's solo stuff has been listenable (if bland). EVERYTHING Grubbs does smacks of, I don't know, condescension maybe. Like he's avant- god who deigns to bestow of this "popular rock and roll" upon us. The Red Krayola have always done that and I felt it very fitting when he hooked up with them.

yeah the last track on jim's most recent mego release is really good. really really good. grubbs hasn't ever done anything like that.

jim o'rourke has better cover art.

Grubbs grew up in the same town as Slint, so it's more than likely he digs 'em, too. Actually, he's told me as much.
Well *duh*. what i meant to say: he likes (in)accessible music.

he likes (in)accessible music.

Actually, he likes a lot of stuff that would probably be considered "accessible," unless you think the first self-titled album by the Band is some "out there" stuff that only "elitists" listen to.

As much as I am loathe to defend either Grubbs or O'Rourke, debates such as these tend to bring out people's insecurities with the two, styled as definitive "responses" to what they do. If they took themselves as seriously as other people think they do, well then their heads would probably explode. As far as I know, that hasn't happened.

hstencil, that's what I mean: he likes BOTH. urgh, I need to brush up on my Englese.

Oh, I see. Never mind.

Funny story about Grubbs, though: apparently, an acquaintance of mine was working at 2nd Hand Tunes down in Hyde Park (where the University of Chicago is) when Grubbs came in one afternoon. Grubbs went to the counter and asked what the noisy, loud rock was that was playing. Alas, it was his old band, Bastro.

Don't know if that's absolutely true, but it's a funny story nonetheless (although not as funny as Randy Johnson buying Thin Lizzy LPs in the 2nd Hand Tunes on Clark).

one thing that hasn't been touched on here is Jim's extensive engineering background (which is respectfully varied and diverse, not to mention nice and sought after). Both are label owners, both release records primarily for Drag City, Jim had an "artmusic" beginning whereas David's was quite different in Squirrel Bait. I had a real undefinable problem with grubb's the spectrum between when I first listened to it (actually the first 20-some times). there was still a curiosity and familiarity that brought me back to it, and eventually i fell in love with about 2/3rds of it. <rant>
Yet given the prevalent short-shrifting that seems to be the norm on this board, this may come as a surprise... I can almost read your thoughts ("You listened to a record that was critically panned by underground music press 20 times!?!!?!?!?") but rather than defend the quality of songwriting and performance on this record (which is hyper-dense compared to the formulaic pop [with the obligitory addition of the current "big in london" trend of the week here] or dilletantist casuality of the ILM-inner sanctum that borders on anti- indie(????) stance that Kerry Keane had mentioned and then came back to be exploited in a total boy's club fashion], I will merely recommend this record as a great folk record with a technical angle/bent and, rather, "psych" lyrics (c'mon how avant-garde is Squirrel Bait?) </rant>
The Spectrum Between is Camofleur stripped of Markus Popp's glitches, Jon McEntire's near-fatal affliction of polyrythmia, and absent of Jim's gauzy digital glaze... but I know, now 5 years later those things are trendy right now so maybe that's why the nakedness of The Spectrum Between came as such a shock to some of you. But it's more a Drag City record than anything else, akin to mid-era Palace or Smog... Which brings to mind another point of view regarding those two... A friend of mine once stated that the only reason that Smog and Palace were given so much attention critically is because critics could relate to the poor level of musicianship and singing... don't get me wrong, I'm still kind of following along with Will's career (although I've abandoned Bill's). Anyways, I thought that was kind of funny. So, to summarize my opinion... Grubbs' gimmick-free Spectrum Between = under-rated, at least 2/3rds of it. I think Jim's releases are spotty in parts, but for the most part are thoroughly accomplished and funny musical expressions.

they both suck mega rod as things to actually listen to.

I go for Grubbs, I love The Spectrum Between and am looking forward to listening to weirder stuff. I like O'Rourke too, but Insignificance is a CD I can take or leave. I like it, but it's about as challenging as a walk in the park.

If they both brewed barleywine, the Grubbs glass would be passable pedestrian at good value, while the ORORK brand would taste awful wretched and he'd snatch the glass away and drink half of it himself. Is that what you meant?

I haven't met O'Rourke, but I met Grubbs a couple of weeks ago, and he was really sweet and down to earth. I'd have to meet O'Rourke before I could take a side. Granted, this would be based on which of the two were sweeter, and not necessarily musical things.

Reading this thread for the first time and noticing the dates on various posts I'm wondering- was ILM formerly more bilious?

i think it got more personal. or maybe i've developed thicker skin? in any event, i remember jess and ethan and sometimes james really upsetting me once upon a time.

in any event: o'rourke's music is much more interesting to me, so o'rourke.

sure seems like it. i haven't seen this kind of hostility round here in i don't know when. or does just this subject bring it out? seems unlikely.

drew you can go back in time by searching the new answers page: go to search page and type the date. here it is for the 19/2/02:

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/archive.php?board=2&date=19%2F2%2F2002

xxp

here is a not so bad tempered thread from the same year, btw:

Jim O'Rourke S/D