Taking Sides: Hard by Gang of Four versus Outside the Gate by Killing Joke

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Prompted by the jaw-dropping airring just now on VH1 Classic of "Is It Love?" by Gang of Four. If you're a fan of Gang of Four and have not seen the video in question, AVOID IT AT ALL COSTS! It will crush you. It makes "Union of the Snake" by Duran Duran look like "Citizen Cane".

Two albums both finding the respective artists forsaking their signatures and embracing elements they'd previously shunned. Gang of Four drop the agitprop, write earnest love songs and dive headlong in string-laden discofunk that bores the dance crowd and emasculates the punks. Killing Joke sack the rhythm section, apply numerology informed time-signatures, bury the guitarist under sickly piles of syruppy keyboards, go a bit prog and pen the worst lyrics of their career.

Which do you spare?

Personally, despite by relentless alleigance to the `Joke, I'm taking Hard. While maligned by the post-punk purists, I admire Andy Gill's defiance of parameter by going whole hog towards the disco thing. It didn't really work, by and large, but there are some decent songs therein, notably the afore-mentioned "Is It Love?" and "Woman Town". I'd sooner play Hard than, say, Shrinkwrapped.

While Outside the Gate also has its moments, the dire episodes (the lyrics to "America," the "rap" on "Stay One Jump Ahead," etc. ) are too hard to defend.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 6 October 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

Being familiar with and liking these two groups, but not these two albums, and therefore based strictly on your vivid descriptions, I'd have to go with Killing Joke. Your skewering of Hard doesn't sound like the Gang of Four I know or want in my ears. And sometimes, bad lyrics are a plus if you like a good laugh now and then. Plus '80s rockers trying to rap--ALWAYS A BONUS (see Dee Dee King, Blondie, et al.)

― Matt Carlson (mattsoncarlhew), Thursday, 6 October 2005 15:44 (twenty years ago)

i really really enjoy the first three or so songs off hard. so, gang of four.

― Grell (Grell), Thursday, 6 October 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

"Is This Love?" is so bad that I listen to it more often than you think. I mean, "bad" as in inept, plodding, third-rate. It's everything Go4's detractors accused them of being and weren't on Entertainment and Solid Gold.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

I too love the Go4... Silver Lining is about as weak as a song can get, but it's catchy as hell.

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

Citizen Cane was the working title for Scarface.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

Whoops, Kane. I was thinking of that last, lamentable Julian Cope album.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 6 October 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

Last time I remember Hard was discussed here, I really trashed it. I took another look at it after that, though and felt I might have been too harsh. There are some songs on it I simply can't stand, but there are others that aren't too bad. I particularly like "Woman Town".

I haven't heard Outside The Gate since it came out. I listened to it once and sold it.

― Bimble The Nimble, Jumped Over A Thimble! (Bimble...), Thursday, 6 October 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

I remember there being a couple of near moments on Hard ("Woman Town" comes to mind) But in general, when the album came out, I was in such a sad state for a while because of how it killed their status (in my mind). "Is It Love" is sooooooooooo bad (the song.... haven't seen the vid).
Outside The Gates, I heard once, and found no redeeming moments, but its effect on me were less traumatizing.

So, a tie.

― peepee (peepee), Friday, 7 October 2005 00:01 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, what peepee said goes for me too - the exact same experience with both albums. I'd probably rather listen to "Hard" if I had to choose, though.

― sleeve (sleeve), Friday, 7 October 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

Hard is fine - nowt wrong with a bit of string-laden discofunk. From your description, the KJ album sounds like their best.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 7 October 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)

is hard worse than mall?

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 7 October 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

I say, old chaps, after much thinking, it is my belief that Killing Joke's "Outside the Gate" is a finer album than Gang of Four's "hard". Those Marxist minstrels did indeed do a good job of making discofunk. However, it does not compare to the 'rapping' skills of one Jaz Coleman.

But it is merely one fellow's belief!

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!, Friday, 7 October 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

I listened to a couple of songs from the KJ album once. They were limp and I didn't remember a thing about them even when I heard them. A couple of songs off Hard are really good, though, the ones on the "100 flowers bloom" comp, so I'll go with that.

I do like both of those covers a lot. The Hard cover has a nice mix of bold design and subtle color. The KJ one has this cool twisty warpy thing going on. What the hell is that collage shit? Is that a piece of blond hair from a warhol marilyn picture? Is that texture from a screen door? Don't know, but it looks cool.

― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Friday, 7 October 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

three months pass...

Hard is a terrific album. Terribly misunderstood. Hard is the sort of record Gang Of Four ALWAYS wanted to make. By the mid 80s they finally understood pop music well enough to do so.

― shaun roach, Sunday, 29 January 2006 16:42 (twenty years ago)

Interesting that Duran was mentioned upthread in conjuction with Gang Of Four's Hard; the people behind the album cover design for Hard are also the same team behind many of Duran's most famous/distinctive covers, i.e. Malcolm Garrett's team, Assorted Images. The "HARD" on the cover even appears to use the same font used to spell out "RIO" for that album cover. Though the rest of the cover more closely resembles Assorted Images's work for another '80s band, i.e. Culture Club.

I'm glad that someone's totally repping for Hard, BTW. If Heaven 17 had released this album instead, there'd have been nothing but accolades. Gang Of Four did an AWESOME job of creating great, solid dance-funk; I mean, dude, one of the backup singers on that album was none other than Alfa Anderson. You know, one of Chic's two primary female vocalists? And it really irks me that a lot of people are, like, "Ew, Hard sucks." No it doesn't. Neither does Songs Of The Free, which is also a great dance-funk album, though with some rough edges to it (which is why I suspect it doesn't get as much b.s. piled upon it as Hard gets).

(Admission time: My favorite Gang Of Four song is off Hard -- "Independence". And if that makes me uncool -- eh, whatev. I was never cool to begin with, so.)

― It's Me Again, But Only For A Limited Time (Dee the Lurker), Monday, 30 January 2006 05:52 (twenty years ago)

Hard is the sort of record Gang Of Four ALWAYS wanted to make.

Yes, those early albums and EPs were such weak, tentative, confusedly market-driven efforts, clearly feeble first steps toward the dazzling power and originality of Hard.

It was apparently meant to be their Scritti Politti move. Nile Rogers was set to produce it before bailing to do Let's Dance; then they wanted Arthur Baker, who was unavailable. In any case the songs aren't that strong, to put it mildly. Dave Allen's unsurprising but admirably succinct review: "Hard was atrocious." Two minor, non-musical, non-original points of interest: "A Man With A Good Car" quotes Flannery O'Connor, and the sleeve of the "Is It Love" 12" single contains an overt visual Duchamp reference. Choice line: "I know that you think that you know what I said, but do you realize that what I said's not what I meant?" Nice one, in the context of Gang of Four's career.

― xero (xero), Monday, 30 January 2006 10:51 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

Hard is a terrific album. Terribly misunderstood. Hard is the sort of record Gang Of Four ALWAYS wanted to make. By the mid 80s they finally understood pop music well enough to do so.

Thank you, this is correct. And right now, I think Hard is my favorite Go4 record. Apologies to the canon.

― stephen, Monday, 24 December 2007 23:12 (eighteen years ago)

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