So apparently Jim O'Rourke has left Sonic Youth.

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Hooray.

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Saturday, 8 October 2005 03:15 (twenty years ago)

Er?

(Hmm...if true, did they do any shows after ArthurFest, or was that the unexpected last hurrah?)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 8 October 2005 03:18 (twenty years ago)

It's been a prevalent rumor on the Sy board for a good month or so and now there is some "confirmation" in the form of this interview:

http://www.lacitybeat.com/article.php?id=2699&IssueNum=122

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Saturday, 8 October 2005 03:21 (twenty years ago)

too bad. murray street is their only album that's repeat listenable

― Jack of Speed, Saturday, 8 October 2005 03:32 (twenty years ago)

sonic nurse is better! but too bad

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 8 October 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

although let us not forget NYC Ghosts and Flowers

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 8 October 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

No, please let us forget.

― hector savage, Saturday, 8 October 2005 07:19 (twenty years ago)

What was his function, anyway? They sound exactly the same to me. If there is one more jangly guitar, I can not identify it. If he's impacted their writing in some way, that's their opinion.

― Hector Shiavago, Saturday, 8 October 2005 10:28 (twenty years ago)

hooray! now they can go back to boring the shit out of me separately.

― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Saturday, 8 October 2005 10:30 (twenty years ago)

no big surprise. sy seem to go through these creative flings w/extra guitarists, remember j mascis "almost" joining around Goo?

more interesting news is the returned stolen guitars, likely to have a more significant effect on the new LP than O'Rourke's departure.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 8 October 2005 11:00 (twenty years ago)

returned stolen guitars

After six years? So where were they, anyway?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 8 October 2005 11:34 (twenty years ago)

the world shrugs its shoulders.

― keyth (keyth), Saturday, 8 October 2005 13:11 (twenty years ago)

He comes around, he does his magic, and then he's on his way.

― M. V. (M.V.), Saturday, 8 October 2005 13:43 (twenty years ago)

bummer!

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Saturday, 8 October 2005 13:48 (twenty years ago)

so da fuck what

i mean its SONIC YOUTH and its 2005 not 1987 you morons

this is as relevant as rick parfitt quitting status quo

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!, Saturday, 8 October 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)

Fuck! Rick's not quit Quo hae he?

Wait! Is he joining Sonic Youth? Mega-fab!

― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Saturday, 8 October 2005 14:33 (twenty years ago)

What was his function, anyway? They sound exactly the same to me. If there is one more jangly guitar, I can not identify it.

he played bass live, I don't know about the albums. but he was a better bass player than Kim.

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 8 October 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

seriously the only people who can save SONIC YOUTH are francis rossi and rick parfitt

and i aint joking

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!, Saturday, 8 October 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/images_music/quo_07.jpg

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 8 October 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

What was his function, anyway? They sound exactly the same to me. If there is one more jangly guitar, I can not identify it.

His effect on their live sound and production of the recordings is undeniable. I think his bass style is pretty distinctive as well. And I do notice the presence of "one more jangly guitar" (which KG was freed up to play). It's a more intricate guitar texture.

― Sundar (sundar), Saturday, 8 October 2005 15:22 (twenty years ago)

If he tries to move back to Chicago, we'll be waiting for him at the state line.

But still, it would have been nice if Sonic Youth would have done something nice like Jim's "Bad Timing" instead of just rewriting "Hyperstation" over and over again.

― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Saturday, 8 October 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

"the world shrugs its shoulders."

sad that you feel you qualified to make that statement.

if you don't like this band (or any band) anymore fine but don't make broad sweeping dismissive statements just to justify your lack of interest in them these days. no matter how final you feel your "they're all done" pronouncement is REMEMBER there's more people interested in what they're doing rather than reading your Pounding-The-Plastic-Keys-On-Dad's-Computer-Rock-Criticism. it's embarassing. for you.

― bellebox, Saturday, 8 October 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

All I hope is that O'Rourke finishes that solo album that Drag City has been promising for the last year or so.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Saturday, 8 October 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

so who else got as far as "So apparently Jim O'Rourke..." and then stopped reading?

― amon (eman), Saturday, 8 October 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

amon, beware of the wrath of bellebox!

― Jena (JenaP), Saturday, 8 October 2005 15:48 (twenty years ago)

Sonic Youth haters make me sad too, but your argument here is quite dumb.

― Don King of the Mountain (noodle vague), Saturday, 8 October 2005 15:51 (twenty years ago)

i'm more interested in how they got their guitar collection back. that's amazing

― amon (eman), Saturday, 8 October 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, details, anyone...?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 8 October 2005 15:57 (twenty years ago)

It talks about it a little in that article linked to above.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 8 October 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

I liked the two records they did with O'Rourke, so I guess I'm bummed by this.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 8 October 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

Stylus will be pleased.

― Hataz (Naive Teen Idol), Saturday, 8 October 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

Jim O'Rourke produced the forthcoming Beth Orton record.

― O'Dork, Saturday, 8 October 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)

I liked the two records they did with O'Rourke, so I guess I'm bummed by this.

They did 5 records together: SYR 3 & 4, NYC Ghosts, Murray Street and Sonic Nurse. I like Sonic Nurse the best of that batch, so maybe the five members were finally jelling.

― Vic Funk, Saturday, 8 October 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

REMEMBER there's more people interested in what they're doing rather than reading your Pounding-The-Plastic-Keys-On-Dad's-Computer-Rock-Criticism.

lol what

seriously the population of college kids in coffee shops outnumbers the population of people who still give a shit about SONIC YOUTH

and you know the population of people who give a shit about STATUS QUO is even higher

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!, Saturday, 8 October 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

NYC Ghosts...was he a "member" on that? I thought he didn't really "join" the band until Murray St...hmm...inneresting....I don't have any of the SYR stuff...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 8 October 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

Why should we waste our time about this when there are rumors that Cheryl may be quitting the Girls Aloud...

― snowballing (snowballing), Saturday, 8 October 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

Sonic Youth haters make me sad too, but your argument here is quite dumb.

Yes, ok, but no it's not. I love talking about bands and certainly that kind of discussion is not interesting unless you like or dislike certain types of bands/music. I'm just tired of everyone who thinks that because they can wrangle the English language on a keyboard that they can declare the end of a band's importance or relevance, etc. It's such a pathetic translucent attempt at throwing around some imaginary power they think they're wielding.

I'd rather hear their personal reasons for losing interest in a band. Surely that would be more useful to all music fans than typing "yawn."

― tjsafg, Saturday, 8 October 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

NYC Ghosts...was he a "member" on that?

I'm too lazy to go downstairs and look to see if he's a credited member, but he definitely produced/mixed Ghosts, and the linked article upthread said he joined in 1999.

― Vic Funk, Saturday, 8 October 2005 16:24 (twenty years ago)

amen.

― foxy boxer (stevie), Saturday, 8 October 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

Given that O'Rourke has gone from Illusion Of Safety to Gastr Del Sol to solo to Sonic Youth to collaborating with Fennesz, etc. (not necessarily in that order).. all quite different sounding groups/projects, while I'm not saying there wasn't a difference in SY because of O'Rourke, I doubt his leaving the band will make SY better or worse in any way. (*knocks on wood*)

― donut hallivallerieburtonelli omg lol (donut), Saturday, 8 October 2005 17:24 (twenty years ago)

I generally agree with this, but jeez, welcome to the internet. Would you like fries with that double order of cynicism and self-importance?

― William Paper Scissors (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 8 October 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

is he doing solo stuff again? I only listened to SY's recent stuff because of him(sorry it's true, I don't have a history w/ Sonic Youth) and it seemed like a good diversion or whatever but more creepy naked man covers + horns plz.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Saturday, 8 October 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

I generally agree with this, but jeez, welcome to the internet. Would you like fries with that double order of cynicism and self-importance?

Thanks for welcoming me to the internet. I've been waiting 10 years for someone to do that. I think if you'll rexamine both of my comments ("if you don't..." and "Yes, Ok, but...") I'm the one arguing AGAINST feeling self important and cyncical. I would welcome you to the world of unintentional irony but that would be obnoxious.

― asfgh, Saturday, 8 October 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

Anyone know if he'll still produce their albums?

I think Tomorrow Knows Where You Live, his album with Henry Kaiser, is one of the great unheralded 'out' albums of the 90s.

― Sundar (sundar), Saturday, 8 October 2005 18:26 (twenty years ago)

sad that you feel you qualified to make that statement.

it isn't that sad.
my dad has a nicer computer than i do. for pirating dvds.

― keyth (keyth), Saturday, 8 October 2005 22:23 (twenty years ago)

i cannot belive this shit - sonic youth have always been fantastic erratic musicians and who cares if some extra muso has gone, he made no difference at all, still sounded like sy to me

ps, the guy who said murray street was the only sy record that stands up to repeated listening ..... are u taking the piss ?? sister,daydream nation,goo,dirty,washing machine and sonic nurse are all brilliant records

― paul g, Saturday, 8 October 2005 22:59 (twenty years ago)

Sonic youth will never be the same without the funny pants.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 9 October 2005 14:57 (twenty years ago)

Kim says their new album will be their last for Geffen and is very "song oriented"

are they breaking up? :(

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Sunday, 9 October 2005 21:57 (twenty years ago)

I'd doubt it, but that's interesting to hear they're calling it quits with Geffen, considering it seemed they had a best-of-both-worlds situation with SYR releases on the side.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 9 October 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

Stylus will be pleased.

I don't know what means, Matthew. I write for Stylus, and I'm bemoaning the departure -- I do think O'Rourke revitalized the band. I love the last two records, especially Sonic Nurse. Was there a famous takedown of either of them on the site?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:28 (twenty years ago)

Ned, do you think their agreement with Geffen makes it hard to do guests on other records etc?

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:29 (twenty years ago)

It shouldn't be, but stranger has happened with that whole 'so-and-so appears courtesy of' dealie.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:31 (twenty years ago)

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/feature.php?ID=12

You've never read this, John?

― Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:35 (twenty years ago)

Oh hahaha! I remember that now! Actually, I think that was the first article I ever read on Stylus...

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:40 (twenty years ago)

I'll just let those disclaimers go a long way...

― Sundar (sundar), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:46 (twenty years ago)

Thank god. SY lost magic points after Thousand Leaves. Jim put their essence into this smooth, palatable package. Murray sSt was pretty weak. Nurse is way nicer. I'm always interested in what they are doing, But I felt they got weak with o'rourke.

― palplatealn mists, Monday, 10 October 2005 03:19 (twenty years ago)

But for all we learned in the second half of the 20th Century about form, context and content, epitomized most clearly by the deconstructionist postmodernism of the 80’s and 90’s, after all the pre-millennial tension was relieved like an overdue whizz, we discovered something about pop music that Gerry and the Pacemakers could have told us in 1959: pop music ain’t that complicated, at least not aesthetically. It speaks and will always speak a simple teenage truth, a truth of naïve sincerity and yearning.

Jim O’Rourke: he doesn’t get that.

GROAN

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 10 October 2005 03:35 (twenty years ago)

Please see this thread, the first ILM thread I ever read, In Which NTI Seems To Express Interest In Hearing A Bootleg Of A Live Jim O'Rourke Solo Show.

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 10 October 2005 03:36 (twenty years ago)

Better watch out, Hurting, I heard Jordan is going to bring that guy with him to the ILX lunchroom next week.

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 10 October 2005 04:06 (twenty years ago)

People like this are the modern day equivalent of the folk-revivalists who believe that the only pure, true music grows out of organic communities and has simple colloquial lyrics.

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 10 October 2005 04:16 (twenty years ago)

Or perhaps his clever play about possibly being gay on Insignificance, cribbed from Randy Newman’s brilliant “Untrustworthy Narrator” device, in which you never know whether the guy is telling the truth.

But when used by O’Rourke, all you can think about is what an impossible jerk O’Rourke must be. Aside from the questions about whether it’s just obnoxious to feign homosexuality (like, is it more PC than pretending to be black?)

WTF? When does O'Rourke "feign homosexuality" on that album?

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 10 October 2005 06:35 (twenty years ago)

hurting there is a reason nobody reads stylus

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 10 October 2005 08:32 (twenty years ago)

Hey that article was written three years ago.

Hurting: the homosexuality-feigning is on "Therefore I Am": "It's not that I wanna be gay / But I can't help myself / It's just that I am."

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 10 October 2005 11:45 (twenty years ago)

Not sure if this is relevant or not, but O'Rourke's label reissued the first Frogs album a few years ago.

― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Monday, 10 October 2005 12:40 (twenty years ago)

On the O'Rourke discography site those lyrics are printed as

It’s not like I want to be king
But I can’t help myself
It’s just that I am

the rest of the song seems to be abt solipsism w/ no other obv references to sexuality etc.

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Monday, 10 October 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

Odd. He clearly says "gay" in the song.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 10 October 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but I assumed gay=happy (or at least it's supposed to be ambiguous). The whole thing's a break-up song, so "Sorry, it's not like I want to be happy about it, but I can't help it."

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 10 October 2005 15:50 (twenty years ago)

jim's a nice guy. that stylus article is really stupid. i hope him and sy are still pals. they made some pretty great music together. their performance on asl was one of the best i saw on that besides buckingham/nicks

― scroll repeat a+b, Monday, 10 October 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

Though I'm sure he knew it would at least be tantalizing to use the word "gay" that way (xpost to self)

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 10 October 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

I think i'm the only person that prefered Murray Street to Sonic Nurse.

― Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Monday, 10 October 2005 16:29 (twenty years ago)

murray street is my favorite sy album. i'm no newcomer either. it's just the most tuneful, a whole batch of teenage riots accompanying some of kim and lee's best songs

― scroll repeat a+b, Monday, 10 October 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

so who's going to officially release SY's records in the post-DGC world? Matador? Sub Pop? Who who who?

i thought their boutique label was really for the one-offs and bizarre projects they did...

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Monday, 10 October 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

I think i'm the only person that prefered Murray Street to Sonic Nurse.

Nah, I actually think Murray Street had more supporters. It was something like #20 on Pazz and Jop, whereas Sonic Nurse was around #40.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 10 October 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)

murray st is awesome

― strng hlkngtn: what does it mean? (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 October 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)

but then nycgf is my fave 21st century sy

― strng hlkngtn: what does it mean? (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 October 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)

*boggles* More seriously, are you the only person who actually rates that album?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)

i stand firm

― strng hlkngtn: what does it mean? (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:02 (twenty years ago)

Whatever O'Rourke's influence, Sonic Nurse was my favorite album of 2004, auguring what I thought was a golden autumn.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

I heard that O'Rourke had told people that he hated being in SY and only did it to pay the bills.

― xero (xero), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

I also love NYCGF, although the beat poetry of "Flowers" is a bit dodge (not the title tune, however), and I always turn it off before Kim's thingee at the end. I like Murray St, but find the pacing a bit off - it needs at least one additional fast one towards the front. Love SN, thought it was the best album last year, although I understand that their general relevance is pretty much non-existent now. I think in that sense they may be unique - is there anyone else that has ever made great albums consistently that the world is quite entitled to live without?

― thousands of tiny luminous spheres (plebian), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 08:32 (twenty years ago)

I heard that he had told one too many "ya mama" jokes to Thurston

― amon (eman), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 11:22 (twenty years ago)

I heard that O'Rourke had told people that he hated being in SY and only did it to pay the bills.
-- xero (continuum0...), October 10th, 2005.

Yeah, but he's a notorious liar. He told people there definitely wasn't going to be a new Loose Fur album, and now it's in the can. While he probably didn't mind the dollaz, I don't think he'd have been in Sonic Youth basically full-time for about five years if he hated it.

― Kofi Annan, Tuesday, 11 October 2005 11:35 (twenty years ago)

I love Murray Street. Sonic Nurse just sounded too samey to me. It's probably my second or third favorite SY album.

― Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

I'm doing some research on modern art right now, and I just came across the original Richard Prince painting for the Sonic Nurse cover:

http://www.artnet.de/Images/magazine/usa/news/news05-11-05-1.jpg

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

Oh wait -- that must be another one in the series. Still, pretty cool.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

somewhat related to jaymc's post, SFMOMA dug the Gerhard Richter's Kerze painting (used for the cover of Daydream Nation) out of their archives a couple months ago. It was pretty funny to stumble upon that.

http://www.sfmoma.org/images/ma/exhib_detail/GRichte_Kerze.jpg

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

apparently he isn't actually leaving but has plenty of other commitments and may not produce the next record.

― emsk ( emsk), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

hopefully he doesn't produce the next record. washing machine and experimental jet set are their nicest albums.

― apalpatean mists, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

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