"Sara Smile" is perhaps the best pop song ever recorded, second only, maybe, to "Peg"

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I mean, what's better? Nothing, that's what.

― God Body, Monday, 10 October 2005 02:14 (twenty years ago)

i was JUST gonna start a thread on sara smile the other day. i don't know why i didn't. and you know what i was gonna ask??? I was gonna ask if it was PERFECT!!! cuz every time i hear it i think it's perfect. every second of it. but i wanted some other thoughts. i dunno about best pop song ever though. there are so many great ones.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:17 (twenty years ago)

there is one little bit at the end where his voice goes up and he kinda improvs a little with the lyrics, and i could see people taking off a point or two for that and giving the song a score of 99.9, but that's about the only spot i might agree with as being less than perfect. the prefection of the whole though makes me willing to overlook what is obviously just a brief lapse before the fade-out.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:20 (twenty years ago)

"i only have eyes for you" might beat it though for best/most perfect. that's a pretty flawless and unfuckwithable record.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:21 (twenty years ago)

its a great song. his voice is sooo encroyable (as usual) on this. daryl hall-one sexy skinny motherfucker!

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:23 (twenty years ago)

Oh man totally. That song makes me want to dance, and I don't dance. It makes me wanna, like, be at a beautiful wedding, and then go to a hotel and fuck afterward.

A lot of Jackson 5 songs make me feel the same way, and some 70s Stones stuff, but nothing like "Sara Smile."

I'd see every Black Flag and Beatles record burn before I'd give up Steely Dan or Hall and Oates. Haters be damned!!

― Gosh, Buddy!, Monday, 10 October 2005 02:23 (twenty years ago)

Weirdly enough, seeing this thread get mentioned made me think of the song, of course, but I ended up listening to "Protection" by Massive Attack instead -- and there's a little something that connects the songs in a way, I suppose.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:28 (twenty years ago)

what's a better pop song than "Sara Smile"? Uhhh...try at least 20 tracks on The Ultimate Darryl Hall & John Oates. "Sara Smile" is really one of their weakest hits (though probably still better than "Rich Girl").

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:33 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I don't know if I get the love here so much. Is this really felt to be a great soul song or something and that's what distinguishes it from any number of other decent '70s lite pop hits?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:35 (twenty years ago)

xpost No way dude. I love that particular collection (and I love "Rich Girl") but there is no better song than that one. Maybe "Private Eyes" comes closest, but totally different vibe.

― Good Buddy, Monday, 10 October 2005 02:36 (twenty years ago)

tim, just listen to it. it's sooooo smooth and beautiful. every element works together in perfect harmony. it's a rush.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:41 (twenty years ago)

Tim, Paul McCartney said it was one of favorite songs. Right up there behind "God Only Knows."

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:44 (twenty years ago)

Omigosh, "Sara Smile" is SO much better than "God Only Knows"

― God's Buddy, Monday, 10 October 2005 02:46 (twenty years ago)

Second MAYBE only to "Peg?" Naw playa..."Peg" trumps "Sara Smile" and so does "God Only Knows."

It is a great song though...

― J. Alston, Monday, 10 October 2005 02:52 (twenty years ago)

"God Only Knows" is in another universe of pop songs, with maybe two or three other co-habitants. I don't even know if there's a single H&O song to compare. Maybe "She's Gone".

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:55 (twenty years ago)

Alston, as long as "Sara Smile" isn't actually playing, I agree with you. "Peg" is pretty much my all-time favorite song. But when under the spell of Darryl and John, a brother ponders such things...

― God Body, Monday, 10 October 2005 02:58 (twenty years ago)

Sara Smile is not as good as God Only Knows but it's damn good, and maybe Haulin's best song(One on One might take it). Daryl sang the hook on B-Legit's "Ghetto Smile" in the mid-90's, his voice might even sound better on that and the song is ace but not as good as SS.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:58 (twenty years ago)

"I can't go for that(No Can Do)" is a bazillion times better than either of these songs (but they're both pretty great also)

― Dickset! Dickset! Disckset! (jaxon), Monday, 10 October 2005 03:00 (twenty years ago)

"I Can't Go for That (No Can Do)" is almost definitely their best, yeah.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Monday, 10 October 2005 03:11 (twenty years ago)

As already revealed on another thread, I totally made up the stuff about Sir Paul to see if I could fool one of his fans. I apologize for my ruse.

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 10 October 2005 03:56 (twenty years ago)

peg is not the best steely dan song.
i don't like god only knows. fuck that.
not a big hall & oates fan. (but i wouldn't turn it off if it came on the radio)

― Ian John50n (orion), Monday, 10 October 2005 04:30 (twenty years ago)

"peg is not the best steely dan song."

THIS from the guy who doesn't like "Past the Moon." FOOL! What IS the best Steely Dan song, then? I'd say you have a formidable case if you mention "Josie," "My Old School," or "Deacon Blues," but beyond that, ppptttthhhhhpppptt.

How you livin' Ian?

― Gosh Buddy, High Priest of Chaos, Monday, 10 October 2005 05:12 (twenty years ago)

I'm trying to think if Steely Dan have a better song than "Peg" and I'm pretty sure the answer's no.

"Josie," "My Old School" and "Deacon Blues" are good runner-ups though.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Monday, 10 October 2005 06:12 (twenty years ago)

i think i hate Peg (except for the fact that alsatian hottie is singing in the background) -but maybe b/c it reminds me of the scary record section of the Sears Department store circa 80's. at any rate seems like there are a ton of other better steely dan songs. rikkie, deacon blues, black cow, babylon sisters.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Monday, 10 October 2005 06:33 (twenty years ago)

only a few songs are better than his pop masterpiece - kiss "beth",split enz "charlie",billy idol "eyes without a face".

― retrogurl, Monday, 10 October 2005 06:36 (twenty years ago)

xpost I'll ignore that you got two of those four titles wrong and try to still take your opinion seriously

― Killer Kane, Monday, 10 October 2005 06:37 (twenty years ago)

I only count one mistake.

― God Body, Monday, 10 October 2005 06:59 (twenty years ago)

"Sara Smile" is too slow and mawkish to be the "best pop song ever".

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 10 October 2005 12:40 (twenty years ago)

YAH MO BE THERE

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 October 2005 12:47 (twenty years ago)

After seeing the VH1 special whenever I hear "Sara Smile" I think of that interview with Sara where she talks about having to walk out drug stores when it's playing because it's so painful. Makes me a bit sad.

― zaxxon25 (zaxxon25), Monday, 10 October 2005 12:53 (twenty years ago)

I prefer "One on One."

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 10 October 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)

¡salud!

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 10 October 2005 14:47 (twenty years ago)

i am pretty sure my sister was named after this song

― strng hlkngtn: what does it mean? (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 October 2005 14:48 (twenty years ago)

it was either that or "tarkus," but thankfully my mother prevailed

― strng hlkngtn: what does it mean? (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 October 2005 14:48 (twenty years ago)

"She's Gone" is BY FAR their best song. Also, Yacht Rock to thread.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 10 October 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

YA MO BE THERE

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 October 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

well, i love me some "sara smile" but arrangements-wise--and more important to the thread, pop song-wise--i gotta say "I can't go for that" beats it just slightly.

― ken taylrr has gone off the internet because of you (ken taylrr), Monday, 10 October 2005 16:24 (twenty years ago)

this song is fine, but doesn't seem particularly notable to me.

― richard wood johnson, Monday, 10 October 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

i love the song sara smile. did i mention that?

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 10 October 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)

I like 'She's Gone' better than 'Sara Smile' but I like both quite a bit. Did you know that there's a 6 or 7 minute version of 'She's Gone' out there somewhere? Given where I'm posting this, all of you probably did, but I didn't until a couple months ago. I'm now on the lookout for a copy.

Wouldn't it be great if all of your favorite songs were actually shorter versions of the super-long real things?

― Billy Pilgrim (Billy Pilgrim), Monday, 10 October 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

"Peg" suffers a bit from the presence of that marblemouthed mofo on backing vocals, don't wanna mention any names. Man that guy irritates me.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 10 October 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

Myonga so fucking OTM it hurts.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

But it only suffers a TINY bit. I can shut him out, somehow.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

You, sir, are insane.

Get thee the Aja: Classic Albums DVD where they solo Michael McDonalds part. It's magical.

― Good Buddy, Monday, 10 October 2005 19:18 (twenty years ago)

you mean the version on Abandoned Luncheonette, Billy? or a different, longer one?

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

I can't STAND that man's voice. It sounds like geese farting on a foggy day.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

I feel like I'm the pink elephant in the room.

― The Ghost of YAH MO BE THERE (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)

Whereas Darryl Hall is up there with Sinatra and George Jones in my books.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)

"Peg" suffers a bit from the presence of that marblemouthed mofo on backing vocals, don't wanna mention any names. Man that guy irritates me.

-- Myonga Von Bontee (scottyfield...), October 10th, 2005.

Suffers?! you alls crazay! mcdonald's the best part!

― ken taylrr has gone off the internet because of you (ken taylrr), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

Dan, there is no H in the first word of "Ya Mo B There"

― The Ghost of Pedant Matos (M Matos), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

YAH MO BE THERE

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

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― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

Yah Mos

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

Just looked it up on iTunes. It's "Yah Mo B There" on the Quincy Jones box set. We're both right.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

YAH MO BE THERE WITHOUT MY AMAZON LOGIN CREDENTIALS

(xpost: Yay!)

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

you mean the version on Abandoned Luncheonette, Billy? or a different, longer one?

That's the one, I assume. I always imagined Hall & Oates to be the ultimate singles group (actually, the ultimate MUSIC VIDEO group), so I was genuinely surprised that there was a reason to go beyond the various best-of collections. I've never even seen that version on CD--my friend played it for me on vinyl. What's funny, too, is that once you hear the full version, you realize how brutal the radio edit is.

― Billy Pilgrim (Billy Pilgrim), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:28 (twenty years ago)

"Peg" isn't even my favorite Steely Dan song. On the other hand, De La Soul proved their genius for sampling it on "Eye Know."

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:31 (twenty years ago)

I know a 5:15 version of "She's Gone" (the first track on the 2-disc Ultimate comp), does that mean there's an even longer one out there?

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

I'd probably take every song on Royal Scam, Pretzel Logic, Katy Lied, and Countdown to Ecstacy before I took any song on Aja. Don't know what I have against that album. Also, about 9 years ago I heard a muzak version of 'Peg' at a Wendy's in Waco, Texas, and it's stuck with me ever since.

― Billy Pilgrim (Billy Pilgrim), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

not one person has pointed out to me how the song sara smile is less than perfect yet. Therefore, i claim perfection! and alex's "too slow & mawkish" doesn't cut it for me. I wonder if Alex knows that Sara Smile was Luther Vandross's favorite song. It's true!

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:39 (twenty years ago)

For me, it just seems kind of ordinary as a composition. There are tons of soul ballads that are better than this!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 10 October 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

OK, I just listened. Pretty good song; better than I remembered! Not perfect, though. The verse is kind of unmemorable. With a little distance from the song, you can't even really hum it to yourself. (Unlike, say, a really perfect song like "You've Lost that Lovin' Feelin'.") And he just sounds so dishonest. If I were Sara, I'd be watching my back.

I'm with you all the way on "I Only Have Eyes for You."

― Sang Freud (jeff_s), Monday, 10 October 2005 21:09 (twenty years ago)

"And he just sounds so dishonest. If I were Sara, I'd be watching my back."

OTMFM! My Daryl Hall Problem, described pithily. I still love'em, but I know it's a one-sided affair.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 10 October 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

I think part of Sara Smile's sensuous appeal is the production. It sounds like a brand new set of satin sheets feels after a night of quaaludes and champagne.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Monday, 10 October 2005 21:24 (twenty years ago)

really? I always found the production on that one rather thin, especially compared to their earlier stuff (esp. "She's Gone")

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 10 October 2005 21:25 (twenty years ago)

I love those drums!

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Monday, 10 October 2005 21:26 (twenty years ago)

I prefer H&O souped up with syndrums and Fairlights.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 10 October 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

Steely's "King of the World", thats some future shit right therre

― Newb E., Monday, 10 October 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

All of the Countdown to Ecstacy album actually.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 10 October 2005 22:48 (twenty years ago)

"Sara" is a good one, I was once in love with a girl named Sara. I dunno, to be honest it reminds me of that James Taylor song "Don't Let Me Be Lonely Tonight" somehow and that's not good. And I guess Hall's voice kinda has the Todd Rundgren fake-soul effect on me a little, I kind of love it but I also cringe.

"Peg" is great but I heartily agree about the bearded fuck singing backup, he almost ruins it for me, even with the fab guitar solo and so forth. My vote for best Dan song goes to "My Old School," don't ask me why--I find it very reassuring and a bit mournful. And I love "Josie" but at that point I dunno about the Dan and "songs"--"records" maybe, you know what I mean? For that matter, could you just sit down and play "My Old School" on the guitar or piano and make it work? Or any of them, really? I don't know the answer, actually, but I kinda think not--maybe "Barrytown" or "Dirty Work"??

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 00:22 (twenty years ago)

Clarly, edd, my friend, you have never heard me bust out "Pretzel Logic" on acoustic guitar! C'mon, mna, it's pretty much straight blues, except for the weird notes in the chorus. "Josie," too, straight R&B (or as straight as the Dan gets!)

Besides, I had a music teacher who was big on the whole "if you can't sit down and play it on piano, you don't have a song" thing, but I dunno - tell that to Vladislav Delay or Black Dice or even Morbid Angel! Sometimes the art is in the presentation of the song as a whole, I think, the finished product, the end result of the studio toil. No?

― God Buddy, Tuesday, 11 October 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

Peg because:
1. The 'Peg' in the background right before the chorus
2. The drumming
3. The flanged geetar
4. M.McDonald : "Foreign Movie"

― 57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

"She's Gone" is probably my favorite hall and oates song. or atleast the one where i'm most blown away by the vocals and arrangement. i can't believe the hate for michael mcdonald's voice on here. "It sounds like geese farting on a foggy day." ... you get it and you still don't like it????

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 00:46 (twenty years ago)

I haven't heard it in awhile, but I remember liking "Wait For Me" at east as much as "Sara Smile." Hard to argue with either really. Let alone "She's Gone."

Also had a weakness for "Fall In Philadelphia" off of. . .I dunno. Whole Oates maybe?

― JAS, Tuesday, 11 October 2005 01:09 (twenty years ago)

Hahahahahah Susan OTM re: McDonald

― God Body, Tuesday, 11 October 2005 01:14 (twenty years ago)

"She's Gone" or "One On One" beat out "Sara Smile" in my book, but just by inches.

the "oh-oh" part of "One On One" give me chills everytime and I'm still a sucker for the appropriation of the language playing one-on-one basketball and applyikng it wo working out a relationship.

Also, "One On One" was the video that made me realize people were lip synching. So it always has a specal place oin my heart just for that.

― Randy Reiss (undeadsinatra), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 02:54 (twenty years ago)

Heh heh, I don't much like MM's contribution to "Bad Sneakers" either! But I know he looms large around here (I've seen maybe half a dozen "What A Fool Believes" threads) and in the hearts of so many ILMers whom I respect, so I'll lay off him. (And hmmm...it would appear that, yes, there are also many ILMers who feel the way I do...)

Truthfully, I liked "Sara Smile" more before mid '04, the point at which I discovered that for YEARS I'd been confusing it with a 70s hit called "Shelly Made Me Smile" (or something like that) by some Quebecois whose name(s) I forgot. But I still bought that "Ultimate Hall & Oates" collection, and was truly surprised and thrilled at how many of those songs I didn't realize I knew. ("Camelia", "When The Morning Comes" and "How Does It Feel To Be Back" among 'em.) GREAT, extremably pleasurable collection by an act that I'd never really paid much mind to. ("Kiss On My List" = still my favourite of their New Wave-era biggies.)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 06:20 (twenty years ago)

Was there a song that was as big a hit as "What a Fool Believes" that had anywhere near nonsensical a lyric? I don't mean "Papa Oom Mow Mow" deliberate nonsense--I mean a lyric whose words seem to make sense until you look at them closely and then they fall apart? I always thought it seemed reasonable enough until I was out doing karaoke one night and the lyrics were up on the screen--even given karaoke discs' propensity for getting words wrong, "WAFB" was complete gibberish!

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 06:35 (twenty years ago)

"Was there a song that was as big a hit as "What a Fool Believes" that had anywhere near nonsensical a lyric?"

Mariah Carey to thread.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 11:34 (twenty years ago)

Apparently Strawberry Alarm Clock just picked random nouns that they liked on which to construct the lyrics to "Incense and Peppermints".

Which means that poetry analysis my mom did on the song when she was in high school was a total waste of time.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

absolutely. I dunno about "Josie," though, as something you could play successfully alone. Residing as I do in Nashville, land of 10 million "songwriters," I have a bias toward things that are more constructed and less let's-write-a-simple song. It's debatable, in my mind, whether the Dan got better as they got more complex, or whether their first three albums were better. And yeah, I've played many a Dan song on piano and kinda made 'em work, so your point's well taken.
xp

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:59 (twenty years ago)

Blink-182's "Josie" > Steely Dan's "Josie"

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 16:33 (twenty years ago)

Heh heh...Nothing could be more appropriate than for the screen to be smeared with vaseline and rendered completely unreadable!

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 06:15 (twenty years ago)

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