how jaded do you have to be to listen exclusively to world music...

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i'd like to know.

corey c (shock of daylight), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

Fuck off!

Andy Kershaw, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

It's only "world music" if you're an ignorant whiteboy.

Reggie, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

hahaha

corey c (shock of daylight), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

well that's what i'm sayin..
i guess that's part of the answer i was looking for

corey c (shock of daylight), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

I'm jaded like cal tjader.

Rockist Scientist in occultation, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

This isn't a forum for rhetorical questions. Lock thread.

Reggie, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 19:56 (twenty years ago)

this rhetoric isn't a thread to lock forums' questions.

open back up, suckah.

the law (wolves), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

This isn't a forum for rhetorical questions. Lock thread

haha you're new here, aren't you?

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

i think the question hits on a real thing... lots of music lovers of a certain age shut down on contemprary music at a certain point and begin to listen to only one type of thing, often soul or reggae or country or "world music"... and partly it is a reaction to being bored with rock n roll or pop or indie or whatever it was they grew up on, feeling like you're hearing the same thing over and over from different bands - immersing oneself in African music or old bluegrass or whatever allows one to have a similar sense of discovery as one did as a teenager chasing down what you read about in Spin or NME or on college radio... and it's also maybe just a bit of maturity and interest in a broader spectrum of things - as an adult you don't need music to reflect your own experiences so much as when you're a teen or in your 20's so you're more open to music about different people's lives. who knows. anyway, it does happen a lot, and yeah it's kind of a cliche, but it also makes sense.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

World large place. Why not the music I like best might be made elsewhere?

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

Fritz - That's a great answer. Thanks for the serious contemplation...

ianinportland (ianinportland), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

I think we need to differentiate between the "world music lover" a la Tim Robbins's character in High Fidelity and someone who has genuinely burned out on rock'n'roll; such a thing is possible. I have several friends who are almost exclusively into gypsy music, and although I don't pretend to even begin to undertsand them, I wouldn't dare dismiss it as an affectation either.

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

where is Jax0n?

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

(What Fritz says is good. I think I've already seriously responded to the same type of question on other threads and don't really feel like thinking about it again. I don't know why I'm being defensive: nobody is dragging my name into this and I don't normally label myself a "world music" fan, even in casual conversation, though I obvious can see where people would apply that label.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 21:37 (twenty years ago)

It's not so black and white with me - but nevertheless, Fritz makes an excellent point.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 21:57 (twenty years ago)

"anyway, it does happen a lot, and yeah it's kind of a cliche, but it also makes sense"

totally. i know several hipsters/recordcollectors of a certain age who are all about jugband/blues/katmandu fieldrecordings and who pay no attention to new stuff anymore. burnt-out/less time to devote to new stuff(the old stuff isn't going anywhere)/etc. it is my future, probably. i'm halfway there.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 22:09 (twenty years ago)

World music is more popular than pop music.

billstevejim (billstevejim), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

I listen exclusively to music from the world, and don't know anyone who doesn't.

Austin Still (Austin, Still), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 22:29 (twenty years ago)

Remember when Diplo invented world music? Or was that DJ Rupture?

Gavin, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

From the NYTimes
Film Puts a New Focus on the Master of 'Ethiojazz'
By BEN SISARIO
Published: October 13, 2005

In Jim Jarmusch's latest movie, "Broken Flowers," a graying former ladies' man played by Bill Murray has a strange companion with him as he searches for some old girlfriends, one of whom may have borne his son. He's gloomy but intrigued by the quest, and his mood is matched by the passenger in his rental car: a CD of brooding and mysterious music, a little funky and a little slithery, a bit like a 1970's blaxploitation soundtrack and a bit like dense modal jazz. He never seems to know what to make of it, but he clearly likes it.

The music is a particularly obscure vintage made in Ethiopia in the late 1960's and early 70's by a jazz innovator named Mulatu Astatke, and thanks to "Broken Flowers" and an acclaimed series of CD's, his music has enjoyed a little renaissance lately. A prominent figure in Ethiopia but barely known to Western listeners, Mr. Astatke makes a rare United States appearance tonight at Joe's Pub with the Either/Orchestra, an avant-garde jazz group that has championed him.

From the moment Mr. Jarmusch first heard it, about six years ago, the music got under his skin, he said, and he began seeking it out wherever he could find it. "When I was writing 'Broken Flowers,' " he said by phone from his home in the Catskills, "I was listening to a lot of his music, and I was thinking, 'How do I get this music into a film that's set in suburban America?' It even led me to make the character of Jeffrey Wright of Ethiopian descent." In the film, Mr. Wright's character, Mr. Murray's next-door neighbor, gets him started on his journey and hands him the disc. Several songs by Mr. Astatke are used prominently in the film, and are on the soundtrack album, released by Decca.

Mr. Astatke, a vibraphonist and bandleader, had a suitably cosmopolitan upbringing for a music that blends jazz with funk, Latin music and traditional Ethiopian five-tone scales. Born in 1943 in the western Ethiopian city of Jimma, he was one of the few musicians of his generation to be educated abroad. He went to the Trinity College of Music in London, where he studied clarinet, harmony and theory, and in the early 60's attended the Schillinger House of Music in Boston, now the Berklee College of Music.

"My whole idea," he said by phone the other day from his home in Addis Ababa, "was sort of fusion with Ethiopian and jazz and modern music. I started at Berklee this idea of the 'Ethiojazz' business. From there I came to New York and I had this group, and what I wanted to do, I did it there."

His group in New York, the Ethiopian Quintet, was mostly Puerto Rican. He recorded two albums in the 60's on a small New York label, Worthy. He jammed with Dave Pike, who was Herbie Mann's vibraphonist at the time, and remembers his time here fondly.

"We had all these big bands," he said. "And the Village Gate, the Village Vanguard, the Palladium - there were all these clubs around at that time." He was surprised and delighted to learn that the Vanguard is still in business. "It's still around?" he said. "Fantastic! Wow!"

Mr. Astatke returned to Ethiopia in the late 60's and took part in a fertile musical scene there in the waning years of Emperor Haile Selassie, who was deposed in 1974. Establishing himself as a jazz ambassador, he brought the Hammond organ and vibraphone to Ethiopia. "I changed the whole Ethiopian music," he said without shyness, "combining jazz and fusion with the Ethiopian five-tone scales. Since then my name has been on the very, very top of the Ethiopian musical scene."

The music of that period, influenced by American funk and soul, is being collected in "Éthiopiques," a series of albums on the French label Buda Musique, which since the late 90's has run to 20 volumes. Mr. Astatke's disc, Vol. 4, is its best seller and has seen a bump in sales since "Broken Flowers" was released in August. It is now selling about 1,800 copies a week, said a spokeswoman for Allegro, the albums' American distributor; that is equivalent to the sales of a new album by a world music star like Youssou N'Dour.

Last year the Either/Orchestra, led by the saxophonist and composer Russ Gershon, performed in Addis Ababa and met Mr. Astatke. The group has since brought him to the United States for concerts twice, the first times Mr. Astatke had performed in New York in many years. After performing at Joe's Pub tonight, they will go on a brief Northeastern tour, traveling to Boston, Philadelphia, Washington and Colgate University in Hamilton, N.Y.

Mr. Astatke said he had been following news of "Broken Flowers" by e-mail ("I'm very far away") but had not yet seen them film in its entirety. He added, with a laugh, "I'm going to see it in New York."

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 23:04 (twenty years ago)

Jaded enough to KIKYOHASSE!

Voodoo Child, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 23:34 (twenty years ago)

totally. i know several hipsters/recordcollectors of a certain age who are all about jugband/blues/katmandu fieldrecordings and who pay no attention to new stuff anymore. burnt-out/less time to devote to new stuff(the old stuff isn't going anywhere)/etc. it is my future, probably. i'm halfway there.

-- scott seward (skotro...), October 12th, 2005.

In a general sense I think probably since high school I've been only about 1/4 interested in whatever's going on right now in the States and 3/4 interested in stuff from the past and/or from elsewhere. I kind of take this attitude like, if something really great is going on, one of my friends will let me know about it, but I tend not to like most of the new stuff I check out. Whereas older music feels like it's already a bit pre-sorted, and the worst stuff has probably fallen between the cracks.

I still have friends who make fun of me for listening to "world music" at all though, which is kind of stupid, especially since I don't generally listen to anything that could be classified as "world beat" (usually signifying a very deliberate and ham-fisted mashup of cultures) so much as I like to check out juju or samba or whatever. I think the pretty obvious line of reasoning, which I'd guess most of ILM agrees with, is "why limit yourself to one part of the world?"

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 13 October 2005 00:14 (twenty years ago)

Do a lot of you (like me) draw a distinction between reggae / dub and other forms of "world music." I was d/l some stuff recently, and the genre tag was "ethnic," which made me cringe (why I would cringe is another issue I guess).

But I would say that reggae / dub / dancehall etc accounts for about 50% of my listening time.

paulhw (paulhw), Thursday, 13 October 2005 00:23 (twenty years ago)

I understand what you're getting at - the "ethnic" barrier isn't there for you for whatever reason when you listen to dub. Maybe because you heard traces of it in lots of American music that sort of accustomed your ear to its sounds. I grew to feel the same way about lots of other "world" music too - afro-beat, juju, samba, many forms of cuban music, Moroccan gnawa - it all sounds better once you're able to get past the barrier and stop thinking of it as "ethnic" music.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 13 October 2005 00:27 (twenty years ago)

Fritz does make a good point. I've known quite a few people who decided to focus at an early age and shut out almost everything else. As a musician there are obvious advantages to this, but the obvious disadvantage is that you miss so, so much that you might not have before. I like the idea that your tastes can be altered at any age. When I started to discover music from other countries it didn't mean selling back half of my collection, it just meant music suddenly became a lot more exciting. Personally I don't know anybody who only listens to "world music" although I do know plenty of people who only listen to indie, or classic rock, or electronic, etc. As for the rhetorical question that started the thread, I'd turn it around and say, How incurious do you have to be to only listen to music made by whites in the west?
Also, good points, Hurting, I agree.

TRG (TRG), Thursday, 13 October 2005 13:53 (twenty years ago)

i only got to the womad for a) hella phat spliffs and b) to see if PETER GABRIEL is there

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Thursday, 13 October 2005 14:04 (twenty years ago)

I consider the Scorpions "world music". Discuss.

Matt Carlson (mattsoncarlhew), Thursday, 13 October 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

thanks fritz, i think you're much better with words than i

corey c (shock of daylight), Friday, 14 October 2005 03:19 (twenty years ago)

In Australia, roots/blues seems to take the place of "world music" as the genre for those grown weary of pop/rock/all that contemporary noise. After a while, it all starts to sound the same, and like bad copies of older stuff, so one might as well go to something that doesn't pretend to be new, young or fashionable, but instead has an aura of timelessness, of primeval authenticity outside the stream of trends. (Which, of course, is an illusion.)

acb (acb), Friday, 14 October 2005 08:51 (twenty years ago)

the reality usually being a bland broth which systematically steams out all interesting and exciting elements of whichever genres of music it cannibalises.

so, what do we think of charlie gillett, iain anderson, nick gold etc. being "racists who just want to own and control black culture" as a certain contrarian music writer once said?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 14 October 2005 09:21 (twenty years ago)

Wilful contrarianism. How about "enthusiasts who want to promote the music they love"?

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Friday, 14 October 2005 10:23 (twenty years ago)

not a nice version of black music to pacify uncertain 30-year-olds in 1987 in the face of more dangerous characters like rakim and larry heard then?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 14 October 2005 10:51 (twenty years ago)

I agree with the notion of authenticity as illusion, but I don't think taking an interest in, say, Gypsy or African music is always born out of boredom with rock, etc. It's not true for me or plenty of others.

TRG (TRG), Friday, 14 October 2005 12:07 (twenty years ago)

No but that was how it was marketed.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 14 October 2005 12:13 (twenty years ago)

not a nice version of black music to pacify uncertain 30-year-olds in 1987 in the face of more dangerous characters like rakim and larry heard then?

Nah, that was Terence Trent D'Arby, The Christians and Londonbeat!

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Friday, 14 October 2005 12:31 (twenty years ago)

Wait a minute... Londonbeat were black?

I thought they were a bunch of beat-up middle-aged rockers who heard about this acid-house rave dance thing and decided to have a go at making some.

acb (acb), Friday, 14 October 2005 13:54 (twenty years ago)

I don't think taking an interest in, say, Gypsy or African music is always born out of boredom with rock, etc.

I wouldn't dare suggest that anything is always the case with anyone, I only meant that it does happen a fair bit among people who grew up as rock fans... I'm sure people end up listening to whatever it is they end up listening to through as many different paths as there are listeners, but the rock -> ever more particularized type of music (be it "World", Roots, Jazz or whatever) is a particularly well-worn path.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 14 October 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

Eight of my top ten records will be in either Spanish or Portuguese this year, apparently I've already given up on "cool" "pop" "rock" music, except I haven't, it's just that this other stuff sounds fresher and cooler to me, like it's trying harder for my ears. That's pretty rockist of me!

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Friday, 14 October 2005 15:21 (twenty years ago)

I dunno, I don't really listen to much world music, but I think it's cool that people get into it....liking something alot means your NOT jaded right? there's no law that you have to be interested in pop/rock/rap/whatever.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 14 October 2005 16:26 (twenty years ago)

well I think that "world" music is pretty soggy stuff, mostly, but that individual world cultures are developing their own musical genres at an astounding rate, and sometimes tracking them is much more fun for me personally than "OMG rock bands all want to sound like the groups I listened to when I was in high school" or whatever

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Friday, 14 October 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

What if all the bands you listened to in high school wanted to sound like world music?

The Beatles ("Tomorrow Never Knows", "Norwegian Wood", "Within You, Without You"), Led Zeppelin ("Friends", "Kashmir", "In The Evening"), The Kinks ("See My Friends"), The Rolling Stones ("Paint It Black"), The Doors ("The End"), Peter Gabriel, &c.

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 14 October 2005 17:03 (twenty years ago)

yeah but for those bands it was only occasionally, like one song per album maximum; TOKENISM! J'ACCUSE!

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Friday, 14 October 2005 17:25 (twenty years ago)

I miss back in 2000 when Ethiopiques were my secret weapon. :/

polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 14 October 2005 17:26 (twenty years ago)

When I bought the Kronos Quartet/Ahsa Bhosle CD (which is pretty good, incidentally), it felt like I was buying world music. When I buy the most recent El Gran Combo CD, it feels like I want to support them and see if there are other good songs on the album beyond the one I've heard. When I buy some old archival oud music, it feels like, "No, you don't understand, this stuff is great! Doesn't it give you chills?" (assuming I get lucky and find an old archival oud recording that really does that--some don't). Actually, when I first started posting here, I almost started a thread about "the vegan world music fan who lives upstairs," because I could have been described that way for a while, but then I realized that Nick Hornby was already too much of a whipping boy on ILM, so it would be too easy to attack his implied attack, etc.

RockIstSci, Friday, 14 October 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

Apart from it being and having been marketed as such (the "world beat" Hurting mentioned), obv world music doesn't exist per se.

So in that way it's like any other genre.

Still, "I'm sure people end up listening to whatever it is they end up listening to through as many different paths as there are listeners" is correct, ie the genres exist within listener's mind. If I were to turn up at a party (comprising mostly middle-class Westerners) in where the music played was raï or kroncong, I'd think "oh, world music heads" and put (sub)cultural prejudice into full effect; if it was joik I'd think "haha ironic fuXors"; if it was Bulgarian voices I'd think "cool, 4AD fetishists". All wrong, of course.

The Vintner's Lipogram (OleM), Friday, 14 October 2005 23:17 (twenty years ago)


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