Let;s discuss CAGE's Hell's Winter

New Cage = the guy from Promise Ring.

The bottom of the d00d, i'm a scary white guy underground rap market for people fell out a few years ago and Cage was done before he realized that the only people moving units were Atmosphere and Sage Francis and the only way for underground rappers to sell albums in '05 was to start dressing like Seth from The O.C, do songs with alternative artists and make emasculated emo-rap with lyrics that read like Billy Corgan's livejournal for depressed 15 goths.

He always sucked but never quite this bad before. Def Jux is the worst rap label ever. Even that label Eric B started in 1997 which released that terrible second Craig Mack album and went bust after 3 releases is better.

Anyway, Jay used to review underground rap albums ("Ghostface is not a poet of the Anticon caliber" sed one Dose One review) and pander to the Def Jux and Anticon artists who posted there and would ban anyone who criticized them or disagreed with him on anything.

This was all fine and dandy until Jay reviewed the Big Jus of Company Flow solo album and gave it bad review which lead to Big Jus coming onto the board and making a thread entitled "move that review, homie".

After that it was all kinda downhill. Slug and El P started fighting on the board and El P and Vordul ended up in an argument with some guy called Will High who's a 6'7 underground rapper/club security worker from Queens. The argument got quite personal and El P dared Will High to show up at an upcoming Cann Ox show at the fitting factory. Will High did, El P cacked his pants when he was that the guy was was talking shit to looked like a white Shaq. Will got into it with Vordul and knocked him out leaving Vordul with a broken jaw which left him in hospital for a few weeks as he had to get it wired.

Back on hiphopinfinity.com a fellow called Gentle Jones, who's a slightly camp rapper from Delaware who makes songs about unicorns, was desperate for a Def Jux deal so he traced Will's IP and gave the address to El P who gave it to Vordul who gave it to the cops and pressed charges.

Will High then went on to spend 6 months on Rikers island, Gentle Jones didn't get a Def Jux deal, the shame of Vordul getting knocked out at his own show, coupled with the loss of street-cred of him going to the cops, is what made the group split and Jay Seagraves closed the website down a couple of years later.

that's funny... at the GZA show I went to in Febuary, a re-united Cannibal Ox opened for him, and GZA himself seemed to suggest exactly this - saying something to the effect that Can-Ox was a continuation of the wu-tang spirit and that Wu-Tang was determined to go back to the rawness of its earlier, less-commercial days

I think Vordul said his Mom pressed charges (maybe in a misguided bid to preserve street cred)

Anyway drama aside I still like the Can Ox album a whole lot. I just listened to it today for the first time in ages and was surprised how much I still like it. I dont think it should be central to the rap canon or whatever but its still a personal favorite of mine and I dont hear comparisons to the 'bad songs on tical' at all.