TS John Lennon vs. Lou Reed: Who Is The Better Rhythm Guitar Player?

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Because I can't decide. When they were playing with their respective bands, of course. No solo careers, please!

― k/l (Ken L), Friday, 28 October 2005 03:18 (twenty years ago)

No fair comparing "What Goes On"s.

― k/l (Ken L), Friday, 28 October 2005 03:19 (twenty years ago)

This is a good question.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 28 October 2005 03:21 (twenty years ago)

Lou could out-strum Lennon.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 28 October 2005 03:26 (twenty years ago)

oh lennon, no doubt about it
lou reed is BORRRRINNNNGGGG
and lame.

im sure others will disagree ;)

― industrial puck, Friday, 28 October 2005 03:27 (twenty years ago)

I think Lou has more of an identifiable tone and style than Lennon. Both very fine rhythm players, though.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 28 October 2005 03:51 (twenty years ago)

lennon wins on revolution (#1 and no number) alone

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 28 October 2005 03:55 (twenty years ago)

John Lennon of course. 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9 number 9

― Kim Chee, Friday, 28 October 2005 04:15 (twenty years ago)

OK, here's my answer: if it's in 4/4 time, I'll pick Lou, But if it's in 3/4 (or 6/8 or 12/8) then I'll go with Dr. Winston O'Boogie.

― k/l (Ken L), Friday, 28 October 2005 04:22 (twenty years ago)

What about "Black Angel's Death Song," though? (I'm half-joking.)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 28 October 2005 04:27 (twenty years ago)

Lennon's work on David Bowie's "Fame" is a lot of wow.

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Friday, 28 October 2005 04:28 (twenty years ago)

John. Lou's pretty typical of himself, y'know?

― steve ketchup, Friday, 28 October 2005 05:18 (twenty years ago)

Whenever I hear "What Goes On" I'm amazed at how cool the rhythm guitar is, all choppy behind the ultra-reverbed organ sound.

― Come Back Johnny B (Johnney B), Friday, 28 October 2005 07:27 (twenty years ago)

Lou is the best ever

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 October 2005 10:58 (twenty years ago)

lou's 80s-designed-studiopro guitars are awful therefor, john wins (since he was dead by the time that kind of guitars were invented by the evil...and the japanese !)

― AleXTC (AleXTC), Friday, 28 October 2005 11:58 (twenty years ago)

... When they were playing with their respective bands, of course

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 October 2005 12:00 (twenty years ago)

Great question.

Reed has the advantage because it's hard hearing Lennon's rhythm guitar on those early Beatles records ("All My Loving" is one exception).

It must be said that both Reed and Lennon could really WAIL when they played lead (I prefer Lennon to Harrison in this respect).

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 28 October 2005 12:35 (twenty years ago)

Probably Reed, but it's pretty close! Agreed about lead/noise playing - "Why" vs. "I Heard Her Call My Name"

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Friday, 28 October 2005 12:37 (twenty years ago)

... anything vs. "I Heard Her Call My Name" is not a fair contest

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 October 2005 12:37 (twenty years ago)

god i want to listen to "i heard her call my name" right now

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Friday, 28 October 2005 12:45 (twenty years ago)

FOGGY NOTION

― stewart downes (sdownes), Friday, 28 October 2005 12:48 (twenty years ago)

I recall Lou Reed's fairly recent (1998?) acoustic live album that contains the sloppiest guitar playing this side of the Moldy Peaches. As for the VU era, though, I think I may slightly prefer his jangle to Lennon's.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Friday, 28 October 2005 13:10 (twenty years ago)

yeah, I know it's when they were with their respective bands...but I couldn't resist mentionning these hideous guitars Lou has been strumming for the last 2 decades !

that said I agree that I've never noticed john's rythm guitar.

― AleXTC (AleXTC), Friday, 28 October 2005 13:39 (twenty years ago)

yeah, I know it's when they were with their respective bands...but I couldn't resist mentionning these hideous guitars Lou has been strumming for the last 2 decades !

that said I agree that I've never noticed john's rythm guitar. He was a lousy musician, anyway, wasn't he ?

― AleXTC (AleXTC), Friday, 28 October 2005 13:39 (twenty years ago)

I don't know, but I much prefer Lou's 80s-and-beyond bassist Fernando Saunders to Paul.

― Patrick South (Patrick South), Friday, 28 October 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

I always thought it was mostly Sterling Morrison we heard playing rhythm.

John was a fantastic rhythm guitar player (actually Carlos Alomar, who played the main riff on "Fame," has talked about what an inspiration John's rhythm guitar playing was to him in general). "Some Other Guy," "I Want To Hold Your Hand," "Taxman," etc.--really crisp sharp attack.

― Douglas (Douglas), Friday, 28 October 2005 14:23 (twenty years ago)

Fernando Saunders is one baaaadd mickey-fickey…

― veronica moser (veronica moser), Friday, 28 October 2005 14:50 (twenty years ago)

actually I say Lou, since he came up with some hooks that are basically rhythm guitar things. Lennon's playing is to my ears kind of anonymous, it's up in there but what is it? I dunno. Serviceable and sometimes I guess inspired in some way or another. But I find this question just weird, given my tastes, since like in the light of truly great rhythm guitarists like Bobby Womack or Reggie Young or Alex Chilton or Curtis Mayfield or Nile Rodgers, I could give a fuck less about John Lennon or Lou Reed as rhythm guitarists--they of course have many other virtues I *do* give a fuck about.

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Friday, 28 October 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

If knowing a shit load of chords and being able to play in multiple time signatures makes you a "better" player, then I guess I have to go with Lennon. Although, Reed did have a more natural, relaxed approach to his playing.

― darin (darin), Friday, 28 October 2005 15:51 (twenty years ago)

okay, i way prefer vu to beatles--but lou reed's infamously crap at guitar. whatever's good on the records is sterling. i love the whole i can't play thing, but he can't. saw him playing with antony at carnegie and he's really awful--it's cool cos it's him, but that's the only reason why.

― ahmahm, Friday, 28 October 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

I'm pretty big on Reed's rhythm playing. What Goes On is monumental. The influence his drone sense (especially his tunings on the first album had on other players is inestimable.

I always thought Lennon was a great acoustic rhythm guitarist. According to Revolution In The Head, Lennon had atrocious timing and a very poor sense of rhythm.

But I'd take Townshend or Alex Chilton over both of em.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Friday, 28 October 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

"Lennon's playing is to my ears kind of anonymous, it's up in there but what is it? I dunno. Serviceable and sometimes I guess inspired in some way or another... I could give a fuck less about John Lennon or Lou Reed as rhythm guitarists--they of course have many other virtues I *do* give a fuck about."

Without going through every song to find examples, I'll just say that I think both of these guys were very aware of the varied expressive capabilities of the electric guitar and were very conscious of what their parts were doing to make the songs MOVE.

I mean, of course you don't always NOTICE what the rhythm guitarist is doing, but Beatle songs are often propelled by Lennon on rhythm guitar.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 28 October 2005 16:20 (twenty years ago)

You want a good example of great lead/rhythm interplay? Check out the two great albums Reed recorded with Robert Quine, The Blue Mask and Legendary Hearts.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 28 October 2005 16:24 (twenty years ago)

I knew that sooner or later edd s hurt would see this thread, which is why I worded the thread title with "better" instead of "best," to avoid him having a heart attack.

but lou reed's infamously crap at guitar
I thought what happened was that he decided he didn't like being the kind of "inspired primitive" guitar player he was and wanted to go the muso route, with the unhappy result that he ended up neither fish nor fowl. Also playing that fast rhythm guitar requires "practice," and the rock star of a certain age may have difficultly applying himself in this manner.

For those think Sterl played the rhythm guitar, I thought you could tell from the live stuff- often you hear these conventionally pretty leads and fills, which Lou just wouldn't or couldn't be playing, therefore, by process of elimination, it's Sterl on lead and Lou on rhythm.

According to Revolution In The Head, Lennon had atrocious timing and a very poor sense of rhythm.
This seems to me to be insane.

― k/l (Ken L), Friday, 28 October 2005 16:51 (twenty years ago)

"According to Revolution In The Head, Lennon had atrocious timing and a very poor sense of rhythm.
This seems to me to be insane."

Yeah, you know, that comes from a couple of instances on bootlegs or wherever (maybe on a track on the Hamburg Star Club tapes? I'm not sure) where he comes in with his vocal at the wrong time. That has nothing to do with his rhythm guitar playing.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 28 October 2005 17:04 (twenty years ago)

i'll never get what the big deal is about alex chilton (or big star, really).

if you compare solo careers et al lennon takes it easy - his solo on "walking on thin ice" is incredible.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 28 October 2005 17:53 (twenty years ago)

Yes. He played that on his old short arm Rickenbacher!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 28 October 2005 17:59 (twenty years ago)

I would imagine the author of "Revolution In The Head" had access to multiple takes of songs from the Abbey Road days. He makes this claim a couple of times throughout the book. I don't agree with him based on officially released output. Just pointing it out.

Chilton is a deadly rhythm guitar player! Listen to Radio City in it's entirety. O My Soul, Way Out West. Absofuckinglutely brilliant guitar playing.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

Lennon's playing is to my ears kind of anonymous

i'd say, au contraire, that lennon's playing is so ingrained into the song itself that it's hard to actually hear it as rhythm guitar playing. it just sounds like part of the songwriting. which is one of the things i like best about the beatles; they knew how to arrange songs and play their parts to maximum effect.

i love the deliberate acoustic guitar rhythms that shape the best songs on all those mid-period albums ("no reply" is a good example). my impression is that it's sometimes lennon and sometimes mccartney (and maybe sometimes harrison, too), so it's to know who to give the credit to. but there's some genius rhythm playing in there.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

John. Lou's pretty typical of himself, y'know?
That pretty well sums it up. Although FOGGY NOTION is a pretty good argument.

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

Tons of stuff on the Velvet Underground albums are good arguments.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

for which side?

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:16 (twenty years ago)

There's tons of good rhythm guitar on VU albums.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

Of course there is. And I like the VVU wau more than the Beatles. But Lou's playing on its own gets to be kinda dull after awhile.

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

"VVU" m.

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Friday, 28 October 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

Fact checking cuz OTM. I think another factor is the huge shadow cast by the Beatles - Lennon's playing may sound "anonymous" because so many people ended up playing like him afterwards. I'm not saying he was some sort of innovative genius on the instrument, but there are a number of truly excellent moments. Like all the Beatles, Lennon rarely did more than the song required, although I'll concede he often did somewhat less. But "No Reply" does indeed seal the deal, as does the rest of the good stuff on Beatles For Sale, and most everything on A Hard Day's Night. By "Help" he's really starting to get overshadowed by George Harrison's leads, and I feel like I don't really hear Lennon as a guitarist again until the White Album. But it's pretty much all good. If I stumble on a bad Lennon rhythm guitar piece while listening through the catalog sometime, I'll come back to this thread...

― Doctor Casino, Saturday, 29 October 2005 02:53 (twenty years ago)

"I feel like I don't really hear Lennon as a guitarist again until the White Album"

"Getting Better" is a good one.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 29 October 2005 05:18 (twenty years ago)

And the "Sgt. Pepper" theme.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 29 October 2005 05:20 (twenty years ago)

Not to put them down, far from it, but if we do the thought experiment and consider the alternate universe where one of the guitar players named by edd had been played on the Beatles records instead of John, would it really have worked? It just doesn't seem that there would have been room for, say, Nile Rodgers to do his thing.

― k/l (Ken L), Saturday, 29 October 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

but lou reed's infamously crap at guitar. whatever's good on the records is sterling

Rarely have I read such piffle in my life:

Ostrich guitar on "The Velvet Underground and Nico" = LOU
Lead guitar on "The Gift" = LOU
Lead guitar on "I Heard Her Call My Name" = LOU
All of the really weird and imaginative guitar playing on "Sister Ray" = LOU
Lead rhythm guitar on "What Goes On" (Live 1969 version) = LOU (tho Sterl's there as well)
Lead rhythm guitar on "We're Gonna Have a Real Good Time Together" (Live 1969 version) = LOU
Rhythm guitar on "Foggy Notion" = LOU

... etc etc etc

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 10:29 (twenty years ago)

Lead rhythm guitar on "What Goes On" (Live 1969 version) = LOU
Rhythm guitar on "Foggy Notion" = LOU

So. That settles it then, right?

Is there a TS: Mo Tucker vs. Ringo thread?

― A|ex P@reene (Pareene), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

I don't think so, but it doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:26 (twenty years ago)

Has it ever been verified somewhere that it is Lou who plays the lead on "I Heard Her Call My Name?" People always say that it is, but then I seem to recall that Sterling did the solo when they did it live in that reunion tour video.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

Has it ever been verified somewhere that it is Lou who plays the lead on "I Heard Her Call My Name?"

That is absolutely 100% Lou Reed - nobody else can play the guitar simultaneously that badly and that brilliantly. Everybody else was well pissed off with Lou on that for track for sneaking back into the studio and mixing the lead guitar 10 times louder than everything else on the track - which I don't see Lou doing if it was Sterling Morrison on lead guitar, do you? Sterl's lead work is very distinctive also of course - see "Foggy Notion"!

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:45 (twenty years ago)

It is Lou on IHHCMN. Sterling's tone is so much cleaner.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:46 (twenty years ago)

And, of course, by the time of the reunion tour Lou couldn't or wouldn't get it together to play it properly.

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

Sterling used fuzzboxes, too, Alfred.

I remember something about Lou mixing the guitars way high, but I didn't know it was specifically to do with that track.

x-post: Lou played solos on the reunion tour. That's him on "Hey Mr. Rain."

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

Here is what happened when I discussed "I Heard Her Call My Name" with Mr. Alex Chilton

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

By the way, Sterling Morrison was great rhythm guitar player too (two in one band!) - listen particularly to "The Gift" (positively funky!) and the Live 1969 "What Goes On" (Sterl's is the lighter spikier guitar)

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 18:57 (twenty years ago)

It would be cool to know for sure who played which parts on those records.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

I think they both had different styles but also the tone of the guitar is different - e.g., on "Live 1969", Lou has a heavier blundering sound - plus Sterl's rhythm playing is very precise and sharp in comparison to Lou's thrashing around. Sterling's soloing is distinctive, it's all over "Loaded". Tho "Loaded" is problematic because Doug Yule's playing guitar on it too.

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

At first I thought you meant problematic because you had a beef with Doug Yule playing guitar, but now I think you mean it's problematic to know who played what.

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

seven months pass...

I'd have to say John Wicks (from UK bands The Records and Kursaal Flyers) is a better rythm guitarist than John Lennon or Lou Reed. English guys seem to have an inherited feel for rythm.

― David Duran, Friday, 2 June 2006 00:37 (nineteen years ago)

"English people got natural rhythm" is one I haven't heard before.

― Keywords: revenge, knife, granddaughter, demonic-possession, rock-star, eel (Aus, Friday, 2 June 2006 00:42 (nineteen years ago)

Gotta go with Lou, though it pains me to pick one, based alot on a famous bootleg of What Goes On from a live show where it's Lou's guitar only for some reason, boot called something like Guitar Tape...I downloaded it free once from a VU site, it is MINDBLOWING, never heard anything remotely like it

― douglas eklund (skolle), Friday, 2 June 2006 01:00 (nineteen years ago)

four years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGC3p5ASZus&feature=related

― Bali Eiffel Tower Hai (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 17 August 2010 03:38 (fifteen years ago)

three years pass...

Sugar plum fairy, sugar plum fairy

― The Cantor Dust Brothers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 25 December 2013 22:01 (twelve years ago)

Your Alex Chilton link doesn't work anymore

― curmudgeon, Thursday, 26 December 2013 21:43 (twelve years ago)

Really? Hold on.

― Can One Hear the Shape of a Ron Decline Bottle? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 December 2013 21:58 (twelve years ago)

Here is what happened when I discussed "I Heard Her Call My Name" with Mr. Alex Chilton

― Can One Hear the Shape of a Ron Decline Bottle? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 December 2013 22:06 (twelve years ago)

I'd have to say John Wicks (from UK bands The Records and Kursaal Flyers) is a better rythm guitarist than John Lennon or Lou Reed. English guys seem to have an inherited feel for rythm.
― David Duran, Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:37 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"English people got natural rhythm" is one I haven't heard before.
― Keywords: revenge, knife, granddaughter, demonic-possession, rock-star, eel (Aus, Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:42 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is a friggin hilarious exchange.

― Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Friday, 27 December 2013 03:21 (twelve years ago)

eleven years pass...

OK, does this guy get it right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEKz7wbuF8U

― timellison, Monday, 20 October 2025 03:18 (six months ago)

sounds great to me. it's easier to hear on a stereo recording with headphones, but to me the magic and charm and heart of the tune is the two guitar parts bleeding together indistinguishably

― budo jeru, Monday, 20 October 2025 04:20 (six months ago)

“Nobody Told Me” from Milk and Honey has some of that yakkety triplet playing, like on “All My Loving.” It’s on the instrumental vamping after the choruses.

― timellison, Tuesday, 21 October 2025 23:36 (six months ago)

love that song

― The Luda of Suburbia (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 22 October 2025 01:24 (six months ago)

most peculiar

― assert (matttkkkk), Wednesday, 22 October 2025 02:20 (six months ago)

a gem, and i always heard it as a response song to the Shirelles' "Mama Said"

― budo jeru, Wednesday, 22 October 2025 02:41 (six months ago)

ok well the Shirelles tune is on the Wiki for that song so i guess it's not just me

― budo jeru, Wednesday, 22 October 2025 02:42 (six months ago)

Gotta lot of bad things to say about Lennon but cannot slag his guitar playing one bit. Easy pick; stick to singing Lou

― H.P, Wednesday, 22 October 2025 02:46 (six months ago)

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