Jeff Chang's Can't Stop Won't Stop

Best hip-hop book ever written?

so i finally got this in paperback. i'm really looking forward to reading it. but apropos of this:

why is chang's book in large print? i almost picked it up but realized it could have been like 1/2 the volume (see also: "rough guide to reggae")

-- vahid (vfoz...), November 1st, 2005 7:57 PM. (vahid)

WHY is the book entirely in a sans-serif font? i can't figure it out. i'm not really looking forward to reading that much text in SS.

The Brent Rollins Design Aversion.

-- ELLI$ (ayo88...), November 1st, 2005.

Get your ironic racial terms right, Dexter. It's "heeb".

-- disco violence (discoviolenc...), November 1st, 2005.

U a hatin' heeb herb, dawg.

-- ELLI$ (ayo88...), November 1st, 2005.

That's one of the best comebacks I've ever heard.

http://www.amazon.com/Total-Chaos-Art-Aesthetics-Hip-hop/dp/0465009093/sr=8-2/qid=1169162961/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/002-6846538-0240826?ie=UTF8&s=books

here's hoping it's layed out in a nice readable serif font!

i am finally reading can't stop won't stop and it's fucking great!

totally

Anyone read this?
http://www.ohword.com/images/800t.jpg

never saw that! you read it?

No, just heard about it recently and wondering if anyone had an opinion.

okay so finished it yesterday

a little disappointed with the back half of it...

basically, after the PE and NWA sections it just seems to lose focus on the actual *music* and become more about inner city politics, the king riots, million man march, etc...

post death certificate, he doesn't really engage in any album very deeply....it's pretty weird to see dudes like Biggie and Jay passed over in just references...

also he flat out misses a lot of movements in general....what about the rise of Bad Boy/Puffy...all the Death Row stuff....

hell since he's so concerned with hip hop and pro-black politics, esp how it relates to the 60s movements it's borderline BIZARRE that the Native Tongues and their sorta boho quasi hippie vibe gets totally ignored...if there's more than a passing reference to De La and Tribe I can't remember it, and I don't even think Jungle Bros. are mentioned at all..

For a book published in the 00s it totally misses the rise of southern hip hop....was profoundly disappointed that he did seem to bother to any research into the early days of the Houston, Miami, and Atlanta scenes....no serious engagement with Rap-A-Lot....I think the Atlanta history is a real missed opportunity because a lot of that is pretty untold, like Toomp, MC Shy D, etc

Also, no real investigation of the Bay scene except for KMEL....where's the history of old school bay like Too Short then on to Ant Banks, E-40, etc?

also, in general...just a lot of rappers that were just rappers and not really explicitly aligned with politics seem to get overlooked...Marley gets mentioned but the whole Juice Crew saga is basically left out, as is EPMD......also Schooly D is mentioned but it seems no research was done in to the Philly scene...would have loved to hear Joe the Butcher, Cool C, Steady B, etc talk about the OG philly shit....

so..overall, i think it's a priceless book for the early part of hip hop, 70-84 era....he's doing the lord's work there...

that said, once things become more scattered he pretty clearly loses focus...the last part of the book that seems really well researched to me is the Public Enemy and the early days of L.A. hip hop, formation of gangsta parts...

the PE parts were great, didn't know there was so much internal strife with the crew and the whole spectrum city stuff was rad...

also i like how he kinda calls cube and chuck d out as being sorta full of shit and only really spouting half thought out (if very powerful and dope) rhetoric

Agreed on your criticms, I was always bugged by how much everything post-92 was glossed over, but found it invaluable for the earlier parts.

As for as a great southern rap book, I advise this, which isn't nearly as limited as its subtitle would indicate:

http://livinginstereo.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/Third%20Coast.jpg

lol just realized it was mentioned just three posts up, but again, hugely reccomended

Really in-depth research into the origins of every major southern rap scene.

Really surprised that book is by Roni Sarig who I mostly think of as an indie rock writer.

I don't really know anything about him other than that book.

yeah i definitely want to check that out.

i mean, frankly, i'm not surprised that, like most hip hop history, it's fairly NYC centric and obv you guys know my tastes that's right up my alley but the part that bums me out is that he even leaves out a lot of canonical NYC shit like Kool G Rap, Kane, EPMD...hell even the Rakim stuff is kinda light...also the Native Tongue thing is weird to me cuz that seems like it would have been a nice contrast to PE's real stern, black panther style, like the more offbeat, funny afrocentric shit in line with the funkadelic tradition..

shit speaking of funkadelic...where the hell was Digital Underground??

even BDP doesn't really get a lot of coverage and back then they were at least as emblematic of the more angry political type rap as PE was.

I went to the book sharing your expectations for it but around three chapters in I realized it's not even concerned with being a comprehensive study of the music, it's more about the social forces & political movements that led to & in some cases reacted to the music. so we're chapters deep before we even get to Kool Herc because a lot happened between civil rights & block parties, and he spends a huge amount of time just on 'Black Korea' at the expense of nearly everything else in California because it's the best way to document the background & build up to the LA riots after the King verdict. in some ways it takes it for granted that you already know the music -- I kind of remembered the controversy behind that song, but not broken down week by week as done by this book, which just feels like needed balance because years later that testimony was fading and yet that song's still just sitting there on the album year after year

so I don't think the ending loses focus going off on million man, it's staying absolutely on focus

Did the Cube reissues finally include Black Korea &al. in the UK?

good points milton, and i did find the kind riot stuff/black korea stuff really interesting...

i dunno...i guess i just wanted it to be more on the other side, the history side since there isn't a real definitive history book and he seems like he has the skills to do it right.

i dunno matt, the chang book is not an encyclopedia, it has a lot of good stories that tell larger points.

having Timbaland be one of the 2 named artists on the cover of a book about southern rap called THIRD COAST is the worst imo -- like even if you consider VA rap southern (which more and more over time i just don't) it's definitely on the same coast as NY and Philly etc.!

yeah it's crazy how they would want to put a big name on the cover of a book -- they should've replaced timbaland with devin the dude

yeah, it's just a marketing thing obv. the actual content spends just as much time talking about mannie fresh.

jordan are you suggesting that there are no other popular southern rap acts besides outkast and they NEEDED to include timbaland on the cover to make it more appealing to readers?

i'm suggesting that they put timbaland on the cover because of name recognition -- i have no idea whether they needed to or not

Outkast, Hurricane Chris,
& How Hip-Hop Became
A Southern Thing

also the Native Tongue thing is weird to me cuz that seems like it would have been a nice contrast to PE's real stern, black panther style, like the more offbeat, funny afrocentric shit in line with the funkadelic tradition..

would love to read a book on the whole Native Tongues thing

from what i understand there was quite a bit of manuscript left out for publishing reasons, so im sympathetic to the breviety with which later periods / other regions of rap are treated

ahh, that makes sense

ah thx nico

would love to read the "director's cut"

same here

thirding or fourthing or whatever THIRD COAST

local book critic sold his galley proof to the secondhand shop so i got to read it before it hit shelves and so so dope

this is good but man kinda wish it went more in-depth into the music. I get why he went with broad social history tho, and there's tons of stuff in here I forgot or never knew. Source meltdown is still sad to read about.

yeah i feel like he loses the plot after the PE section...there's some good stuff about the early west coast scene like the mixmaster spade/toddy t era stuff...but the 2nd half is more about rodney king than actual music

feel like the first part about the beginning of hip hop and the early street gang stuff is amazing though

I know right? I knew some of that stuff (80 Blocks from Tiffanys, Black Spades etc) but was surprised to the extent that it practically makes the Warriors sound like a documentary

this is the most amazing website, old school angelfire web design and all

http://www.classicnystreetgangs.com/

I"m sure I tagged this elsewhere but for completeness' sake: http://boingboing.net/tag/brainrot