Magazine - Classic Or Dud?

"Shot By Both Sides" I probably heard more times growing up than, I dunno, "Stop The Cavalry" or "Dancing Queen" (older brother, y'see), so I can't stick up for that as some Hall Of Fame Rock Single Gem as its been sullied through overexposure. Everything else on that first LP, much of the second and what I've heard (singles, tracks on the "Rays And Hail" comp) from the third and fourth = glorious.

Devoto's not disappeared into the library forever, btw - in September Tim and I had our heads blown clean from our shoulders by Buzzkunst: Howard and Pete, together again for one night only at the ICA. Here's a pretty good review of the event [http://shotbybothsides.com/buzzkunst.htm], though I gather something has now appeared in the current issue of Uncut.

Never drawing attention to itself, secretive, isolated ... such incredible music, in a twisted sort of way, somehow *deserves* that kind of reservation.

Real Life - 9.9 - Their punkiest album, equal parts guitar riffs and kayboard. Their most popular album, and I can see why. Fun, angsty, a masterpiece.

Secondhand Daylight - 9.8 - More goth-inspired. Keyboards and thumping bass are what this album is all about. The songs here are more sprawling, many of which have a certain soundtrack quality. Of course, there is no obsense of rockers ("Rhythm of Cruelty" and "Back to Nature" for starters). Highly underrated.

The Correct Use of Soap - 10.0 - More of a new wave funk approach on this one. McGeoch's guitars are back. Adamson is in top form (check out the Sly cover "Thank You" and the dance-floor funk of "Stuck"). As each song ends, excitement begins to grow in anticipation of the next.

Magic, Murder and the Weather - 9.5 - More of a cold new wave synth affair. This album is practically unknown. It's a shame too, since what we have here is a very effective 'album.' The only obvious single is "About the Weather," an almost disco (?!) number. The rest of the album has a cold, detached feel (thanks to Hannet?) filled with synth washes - McGeoch had quit before this album was recorded. There's a lot going on in this album, which requires close listening in order to appreciate. One of the more interesting albums in my collection.

Magazine perfected the 40-minute album. Period.

So yeah, Classic.

Just played Secondhand Daylight - still blows me away! Not dated at all.

Perfect blend of new wave/progressive music.

Liked Wire a lot also - more clinical than Magazine

As soon as Fopp have it, obv.

If we're very, very lucky, Virgin might see fit to reissue his 1983 solo album "Jerky Versions Of The Dream" one day too - it's far better than the last Magazine album (Magic Murder & The Weather).

The Peel Sessions disc in the box set is great.

Which I suppose is true to an extent — but I think that may be missing the point, because one of the things that makes Magazine special is precisely how they defy categorization. Yes, they're "post-punk," but only really in the sense that they're punky and arrived contemporaneously with/immediately after punk; but unlike their contemporaries, they didn't, say, do a white dub record.

Rather, like Associates, it's the post-modern elements of the band that set them apart — way apart. There's the nods to John Barry noir ("Goldfinger"), Sly funk ("Thank You Falettinme") and Beefheart weirdness ("I Love You, You Big Dummy") — you don't even have to be sold on all those tunes, per se, to at least appreciate that such things informing this music was both unprecedented and at least potentially thrilling.

The same is true of the intense prog-ness of Dave Formula's keyboards. Add onto that Devoto's absolutely unique take on punk's contfrontational front-man pose (the bridge between Scott Walker and Billy MacKenzie?) and some seriously top-of-the-line songwriting ("Shot By Both Sides", "A Song From Under the Floorboards", "Sweetheart Contract", but also "Permafrost", "The Light Pours Out of Me", "Back To Nature"), and I don't see how you're not talking serious classic. If anything, it's almost too much to take in — I'm not even sure I have yet.

Permafrost still defines. I'd love to speak with Devoto regarding this one day. And the guitars--dueling pissy psycho spiders.

The whole thing sounds today like it came from no-when.

I did that very thing. We dined together at the Japanese Canteen, St John St, Islington. I think we were on the ice cream when I asked about the song. For some reason I had a slightly accusing tone, or he had a defensive one. It wasn't a cold song, he said. "But you had that song on your solo album saying "Let me out of my cold imagination!" Surely that suggests you knew it was a cold song, cold and perverse! Why did you have to drug her, if it wasn't cold sex you were having? Eh, eh?" He looked like a deer trapped in the headlights, said nothing. I went to the bathroom, looked in the mirror. God, I shouldn't be persecuting him like this! He's so sensitive! It was like that moment in "The Man Who Fell To Earth" when Mary-Lou makes to accuse Newton, but suddenly can't. His mind disarms all aggression against him. I came back, sat down, we finished our ice cream. I apologised for my cross-examination.

The whole album's pretty fucking cold. It's no Mambo Nassau.

But then, it's much the same story with Wire, so what do I know.

I can't believe that I didn't post on this thread originally. Anyhow, for the second time on ILM, Momus and I agree wholeheartedly. (The other time was on The Passage!). I must have played Real Life every day for 2 years after it came out. Likewise The Correct Use Of Soap. I didn't rate Secondhand Daylight quite so highly at the time, but over time, I've come to believe that it's their absolute masterpiece - icy and forbidding on the outside, but raging with passion within. Of course I have absolutely everything they ever did, including Jerky Versions Of The Dream, the HD solo album.

What musicians! - Adamson's plunging bass pulse, Formula's incomparable synth and piano wizardry and McGeogh's polymath trickery on guitar. Every song has at least 3 moments of utter sonic genius that you wait for each time you play them. And they never fail to sound as great as the first time.

Oh and I really don't get it when people refer to Magazine as 'cold'. For goodness sake - listen to what he's singing! Listen to You Never Knew Me, or Shot By Both Sides, or Stuck, or Because You're Frightened, or I Wanted Your Heart, or......alright you get the point.

Other albums : Play - the live one. Wow - best live album ever? I reckon so. Also interesting (and amazing given the fact that he was an absolute genius) that they didn't really miss McGeoch. Alright Robin Simon rightly sticks to copying McGeoch's parts as closely as he can, but on a couple of songs he is really flying and maybe even sounds better than JM. I'm thinking of Permafrost and The Light Pours Out Of Me.

Magic, Murder and The Weather - fascinating, but this time they did miss JM. When this came out I instantly 'got' what they were trying to do, or at least I thought I did, because I've spent the last 24 years trying to get the same feeling from it. Maybe it'll click again one day - not a bad record by any means, but not up there with the rest. I'd be interested to hear what people have to say about it.

Personal Magazine thoughts/stuff :

1. I once met HD at a record fair....very briefly. I was with my friend N who knew him. N sees H leafing through a box of vinyl and calls 'Howard!' to him, at which point Howard jumps like a startled rabbit, looks around him wildly and bolts for the door.

2. I never saw them live. I can hardly bear to type those words. I'm not sure i actually believe it, given that I leaved and breathed the Manc/Factory scene from the early days of punk for the next 10 years or so. I mean I saw Joy Div plenty of times, but never saw Magazine ONCE. When I was at the Univ of Reading they were down to play (May 5th 1981, I think) on the M,M & W tour, but split before the Reading gig. I still have the bloody ticket somewhere.

3. I missed seeing Devoto-era Buzzcocks on the Anarchy tour by one day! When The Damned were kicked off the bill, The Buzzcocks replaced them for the Electric Circus show. I went the next night to the Cleethorpes Winter Gardens Show, but the Buzzcocks didn't make it across the pennines and only 3 bands played.

4. I did eventually see Howard solo, with SPK and The Smiths at the Lyceum. Dave Formula was on keyboards.

5. I played a gig at the Camden Monarch around 10 years ago and it turned out that we were supporting some Romo-type outfit which had DAVE FORMULA on keyboards. Dave Formula! I can't for the life of me remember the name of the band.

Spiral Scratch, Real Life, Secondhand Daylight, The Correct Use Of Soap
This man's records took my breath away and filled me with hope
A darkness, daring and lyrical drama the world has long since lost
Song From Under The Floorboards, Parade, Motorcade and Permafrost"

It's hard to know if I have anything to contribute to this discussion when our members are having chats with Devoto over ice cream, but I'll take a shot. Magazine floated under my radar for the first couple years of my radio show, which mostly focused on post-punk. Next door to the station was the newsaper office, where I served time as arts editor my third year. There was a beat-up cassette of The Correct Use Of Soap, which didn't grab me the first few times it was played. The "Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin)" cover didn't seem to add much to the original in my mind, and Dave Formula's keyboard work seemed almost MOR compared to say, Pere Ubu. But slowly the lyrics would sink in, particularly "A Song From Under The Floorboards" and I started to realize how brilliant and subversive Devoto was, more so than even Nick Cave. I dug into their other albums and decided that Magazine were nearly as powerful and intense as Joy Division, but not all their songs were as immediately gripping, and needed time to grow on you.

I remember reading an interview with Devoto where he addresses the lyrics to "Permafrost," in either Uncut or MOJO, but I can't find it. Isn't there an index for those magazines?

In looking around, I found Chris Ott's inappropriately timed dismissive take on Magazine in John McGeoch's obituary:

Devoto's sneering delivery and Magazine's unabashed use of border-prog synth sounds left a mixed legacy of obsessive fans and disinterested observers; though a handful of revered post-punk classics like "Permafrost" and "The Light Pours Out of Me" mandate remembering Magazine, the band's three studio albums between 1978 and 1980 were increasingly spotty, and McGeoch's dramatic leads far outshone the hesitant songs they supported.

That's a load of steaming crap. McGeoch actually held back on the last album (probably under Hannett's direction) to let the rhythm section and Devoto's songs shine. And he also infers that Reynolds intentionally left Magazine out of his 2001 post-punk article. The reality is that Reynolds needed 577 pages to include what he needed, and still can't please everyone. Of ...Soap, he wrote, "...it was hailed, correctly, as the band's masterpiece. Devoto's lyrics drew inspiration from an idea he'd found in a book of essays on love and lust by Theodore Reik -- the notion that you are particularly vulnerable to falling in love after you've experienced some kind of trauma or life crisis. 'Imay love you out of weakness/Is that what I was afraid of?' he wonders on the superb 'Stuck', a strange track loping somewhere unclassifiable between art-funk and jazz-metal. Enhanced by teh crisp edges and eerie hollows of Martin Hannett's production, Magazine's music finally matched the lofty themes, while Devoto penned some of his most darkly witty and literate lines: 'I could have been Raskolnikov/But Mother Nature ripped me off' (a reference to the anti-hero of Dostoevsky's Crime And Punishment)."

Here's a more interesting article from Stylus circa '02 - Rhythm Of Cruelty: Howard Devoto, Magazine and the Post-Punk Revival.

"So how did I spend my wilderness years, Momus, I'm glad you asked
I was up on the summit of Mount Olympus giving a songwriting class
To Aphrodite, Zeus and Psyche and many other gods
Of the early to middle Greek pantheon -- now they all write fantastic songs"

READ IT AND WEEP BIATCHES

The 3 disc box set was as the same price as a normal CD when I bought it. Maybe the price has gone up since then I suppose, dunno.

great performance clip on youtube of "song from under the floorboards" w/a seriously funky black bass player

today I bumped into you again
I have no idea what you want
but there was something I meant to say

As the day stops dead
at the place where we're lost
I will drug you and fuck you
on the permafrost

classic, absolutely

today I bumped into you again
I have no idea what you want
but there was something I meant to say

As the day stops dead
at the place where we're lost
I will drug you and fuck you
on the permafrost

Words to live by.

Totally forgot the line about drugging and fucking until I played that song on my radio show this past week. Hi there, FCC!

Great, but better than Wire? wtf no.

mick mercer linked to this band today: Gloria Mundi

Gloria Mundi - Myspace
http://www.myspace.com/gloriamundifansite

They released an album on RCA in 1977 ! and sounded a bit like Magazine. Were Magazine inspired by this band? did they ever tour together?

Eddie Maelov - vocals // Sunshine Patteson - keyboards, vocals// Beethoven - guitar// c.c. - sax// Mike Nichols - drums// Ice - bass//

Don't think there was a Gloria Mundi connection. I did buy a couple of their singles when they came out, but I thought of them more like Ultravox at the time, but slight more trad-rock band. Of course trad-rock was what Magazine (and Joy Division, Echo, U2 etc) added back into new wave.

I'm not sure GM even preceeded Magazine, at least in my attention. There were a couple of bands like that, punilux, Ricki and the last days, erm, and others....

Of the two UK tours I remember magazine doing one had Simple Minds supporting and the next had Bauhaus.

I only saw them once, at the Astoria in Edinburgh with Bauhaus (and local band Josef K). This would have been April 1980, I also remember it was actually my mate's 20th Birthday and he, years later, became mildly famous and once mentioned that gig as one of his all time favourites.

Incidentally, I just got tickets to go see Barry Adamson play in Glasgow, and so that's... gulp, 28 years since I last saw him.... wonder if he still looks as cool? I know I do (grin).

I like Eddie and Sunshine's later pop record on Survival. Somewhere in Europe is a gem of a song.

One of the members of the Monochrome Set, Jeremy Harrington, was also in Gloria Mundi. Just for the record.

Just for the record.

ahem

They're playing their first date since 1980 at The Forum, on Friday Feb 13. Excitement!

Who is playing guitar?

Robin Simon the obv choice, I suppose?

I came across them in my vinyl stacks last night and had a strange feeling about them as if someone had mentioned them to me recently but I couldn't place it. I'm glad to hear they're going to play.

Guitarist TBC, according to their Myspace. Also a Manchester date on Sat Feb 14.

http://www.myspace.com/magazineofficial

funny, soapy correctness always got the raves from critics back in the day, but i always preferred real life, and even secondhand daylight. great opener on soap, but too many average sounding songs later on.

Noko is playing guitar.

I wish I was.

I wish Pete Shelley was.

I could care less really but in this case no McGeogh = no credibility for real.

Is this likely to sell out early d'ye reckon? Cos I've got a ton of gigs this month already and would like to put off buying a ticket for this for a month or 2.

tickets PURCHASED
so excited

Any hint of further dates? Like in, say, Glasgow?

And Dr C - Noko?

Hmm, bit of a let down, the claim earlier was 'a manchester guitarist' and I was hoping for Vini Riley, expecting Johnny Marr and praying it wasn't Billy Duffy.

'Shot By Both Sides' will always sound like it was released today.

Rhythm of Cruelty and 'Song From Under the Floorboards' classic too, the latter for the opening lyrics

I am angry I am ill and Im as ugly as sin
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking

Shit - how could I forget 'The Light Pours out of me'?

I'm obviously not a hardcore Magazine um devoto...

Always preferred the other band.

My favourite's always been Because You're Frightened, although Shot By Both Sides is way up there

fucks sake why did not know about this until now, fucking sold out

Because I hadn't seen you online til now. Ferg will be able to tell you all about it.

Has anybody seen them yet? They posted a few tracks on myspace and everything sounds very in tact and excellent. Adamson's bass is especially robust and chorus-y...just how I like it. The videos floating around are poorly recorded and don't seem to do them justice.

I know a bunch of you must have gone to see then already....

Wanted to but it sold out. Was this a one-off or are they likely to play any more gigs, anyone know?

Saw them at the Forum last night and they were utterly brilliant. Right from Devoto announcing at the start that they had reformed so he could 'impress a woman.' The band were a really tight ship, and Noko performed McGeogh's parts to a tee. The support act Ipso Facto, clearly fans, sang backing vocals. "That's probably their daughters' band," my friend suggested.
They played everything you might expect or hope for, except maybe Boredom and Back to Nature. Poor old Barry Adamson had to sit down to play the bass in Thankyoufalletimebemiceelf, but devoto was a malevolent live wire throughout. The only curious bit was Great Beautician in the Sky never seemed to shift into 4/4. Highlight for me was Motorcade.

there in spirit

would pretty much of paid £30 to watch Pimp Barry Adamson playing the Basslines of Magazine for two hours, but yeah, fuckin A

they did The Book, and Twenty Years Ago sounded like some lunatic house shit

I did not realise until I read Petridis' review that Devoto was wearing 3/4 length pants :/

dude is basically Jesus though so fair enough

shame about not Back to Nature/Feed the Enemy/much else off Secondhand Daylight; also wish someone had thought to wave a lighter during Permafrost

so they played most of Soap then

really really feeling like I should of found out about this sooner

devoto in 3/4 length pants, espadrilles and a pink jacket, like some demented gameshow host meets sex tourist

Great gig in Manchester last night. Thought they are sounded great - agree Devoto looked a bit odd, but Barry Adamson still looked like the coolest dude around. Fantastic bass playing too.

please come to NY!

so, will it be good? -

http://music.is-amazing.com/sites/music.is-amazing.com/files/covers/magazine.jpg

No Barry Adamson on this...apparently?

I wanted to quote a strange aside from another thread, talking about the old Rolling Stone Record Guides:

Magazine seemd very harshly dismissed for instance, a 4 line paragraph and each album three stars, but "Philadelphia" was identified as their best song which cannily seems to be the consensus now

Did I miss the news that there's a "consensus" that "Philadelphia" from The Correct Use of Soap is their best song? I'd personally rank it 5th or 6th on that album alone. I don't think it's even made it to any of their compilations.

Meanwhile, No Thyself is one of those albums I keep meaning to get hold of.

Third week bingeing on whatever Magazine I can find.

How do you rate them? I never connected with the reunion album.

Of the subsequent non-Magazine stuff that Howard did, there's good bits on his solo "Jerky Versions Of The Dream" and the two Luxuria albums but none of them are consistent enough for me to enjoy fully.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/may/04/post-punk-guitarist-john-mcgeoch-magazine-siouxsie-sioux

Anybody get this yet?

The Light Pours Out of Me: The Authorised Biography of John McGeoch
Rory Sullivan-Burke

John McGeoch was the unsung hero of the post-punk era. Blazing a trail with some of Britain’s biggest bands and most revered artists – Magazine, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Armoury Show and Public Image Ltd. – John left an undeniable and indelible mark on music.

The Light Pours Out of Me examines John’s life and legacy, drawing on original interviews with the likes of Siouxsie Sioux, Howard Devoto, Johnny Marr, Billy Idol, John Frusciante, Keith Levene, Jonny Greenwood, Nick Launay, Ed O’Brien, Peter ‘Hooky’ Hook and many others.

xxpost I haven't heard the reunion album but love the first three very much. Digging on older live sessions I can find, too.

I really don't think that the fourth album has any bad songs, but the sound is often very harsh.

I think Luxuria's Beast Box is his best non-Magazine release. I saw the video for "The Beast Box is Dreaming" when it came out, but couldn't get into the record at the time. Now I particularly like the "torch songs" or ballads; Devoto is not as tormented as he was in the Magazine days, but there's just as much wit and perception in the lyrics and singing.

magic murder and the weather may actually be my secret favourite, tho i haven't revisited any of them for a long while

i used slightly to know ben mandelson, mcgeoch's replacement -- he co-ran a record company whose records i often reviewed, and he was both a nice person and a very folk-scholarly person, which was probably not quite the right vibe for magazine but i liked it myself

awake much of the night with truly astonishing dental pain (on antibiotics, direct to root canal when I get home from work but work mean travel and I've got several days yet to go) and the music of magazine specifically the secondhand daylight album is helping. ty magazine, top group

Check out "Seconds to Last" by Colin Newman for more explicitly dental-themed post-punk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fME8qjXbV1I