― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 20:52 (twenty years ago)
― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)
His songwriting was often pedestrian (never as sumptuous or surprising as his productions), and I rarely sensed pain infusing that gorgeous voice. It's all too easy.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 22:19 (twenty years ago)
I admit I don't get why that should be held against him. (Or anyone.)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 22:26 (twenty years ago)
I mean I believed that when I was a goth but those days are long gone
xpost what Ned said
― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)
I agree that there's no reason why joy couldn't be an end to itself (it's why I love New Order), but it's more complex in Vandross' case. It matters insofar as his renowed covers rarely invoke the despair of the originals (I'm more impressed than moved by "A House is Not A Home"), while his own originals are often no more than virtuosic displays. Exceptions: "Give Me The Reason," "So Amazing," "She Loves Me Back."
I am also prepared to concede that these are largely subjective distinctions.
Like I wrote earlier, I've listened to him pretty much non-stop for months, with equal parts frustration and pleasure. He should have recorded more uptempo stuff like "Never Too Much," "Stop To Love," and "Power of Love."
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 22:55 (twenty years ago)
Okay, now I'm even more flustered. I can't think of many New Order songs that are all about joy both musically and lyrically.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 23:01 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 23:05 (twenty years ago)
― blunt (blunt), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 23:11 (twenty years ago)
― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 23:12 (twenty years ago)
Won't you please let me goThese words lie inside they hurt me so
Admittedly this doesn't have much to do with Luther. ;-)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 23:12 (twenty years ago)
Luther didn't have many moments like this (well, ok, "Stop to Love" is one).
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 23:16 (twenty years ago)
Oh come on! Bernard's whooping at the end of "Age of Consent"! It's as if he's relieved she's gone. And the romantic entanglement he describes in "Temptation" is enticing in all the best ways. Obsession = liberation.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 23:18 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 23:19 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 23:25 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 23:28 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 17 November 2005 00:50 (twenty years ago)
"Okay, now I'm even more flustered. I can't think of many New Order songs that are all about joy both musically and lyrically."
"Bizarre Love Triangle" is 4 minutes of sheer joy musically. Furthermore, although feelings of doubt and guilt underpin most of the lyrics, I think that a case can be made for the chorus being quite joyful.
Getting back to the original point of the thread however, this is one of my favourite ILM posts of all-time:
"Give Me the Reason" from the slightly incongruous soundtrack to Ruthless People is -- despite some dated, 80's production -- one of the most brilliantly subtle, heartbreaking songs I've ever heard, and I love him for it."
He was great.
― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Thursday, 17 November 2005 07:55 (twenty years ago)
-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), June 15th, 2005.
― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Thursday, 17 November 2005 08:01 (twenty years ago)
Since childhood, my sibs have always had a fondness for R&B -- yet I seemed to be immune to the sounds from Motown -- so for a long time, we suspected either that (1) the R&B gene had skipped over me, or else (2) that I had been adopted from a family who listend to the Clash instead.
But Luther was the exception -- the one R&B singer who could make me feel like part of my family again. Nine times out of ten, if I walked past a blaring stereo and actually _liked_ what what I heard from it, (liked it enough to ask who that singer was), the answer would be : Luther Vandross.
The thing about Luther's voice is the warmth. He may not be expressing PAIN or legitimate social and political concerns like say Marvin Gaye or Stevie Wonder, but there's a warmth and a sweetness and a smile that comes through in nearly every Luther song, even the "phoned-in" ones. And yes, I agree, Luther was known to overcook a song just like most male R&B singers out there (Michael Jackson, anyone? Bobby Brown? Freddie Jackson?), but still his were not nearly so badly overcooked as the majority of the divas and boybands that populate the airwaves today!
Something that people should keep in mind when criticizing Luther's "overcooking" and lack of PAIN in his singing, is that Luther is part of the "Quiet Storm" genre. And Quiet Storm is not especially about authenticity or reality (unlike rap's obsession with "this is the truth from the streets"). Quiet Storm, surprisingly isn't even about passion (though on the surface it would seem to be, because every song in Quiet Storm talks about love).
Instead, Quiet Storm is about _performance_ : about setting a mood, about showing a "bella figura", about impressing your sweetie with your virtuousity if not with your authenticity. It's not about passion or sincerity so much as it is about charming someone with your display. (Think of peacocks : the way they strut and call and bristle their feathers to attract a mate).
But that's not to say that Luther's music -- or Quiet Storm music in general -- is "insincere" (I do believe many of the singers in that genre put their heart into it -- anyone who's listened to Phyllis Hyman's "Prime of my Life" will undoubtedly agree with that) -- it's just that sincerity is not as _important_ in Quiet Storm as it is in other genres. Not like it is Emo or Straight Edge or Christain Rock (though a person could also argue that each of those genres have their peacock aspects too).
But back to Luther : "A House Is Not A Home" has always been my favorite Luther song. I love the phrasing -- especially the pauses -- and I love the warmth of the little bits at the beginning ("dododo do do") and the ending ("say ya gonna be are ya gonna be well well well well ...")and how there's just this sweet "smile" through the whole song -- almost as if he's saying : "ok I tried logic and it's not winning you back, I've tried arguing and it's not winning you back, and I've tried being forceful and direct and it's not winning you back -- so all I have left is my charm. And if I can't charm the socks off you to win you back then I know I've lost you for good."
And you know what ... whenever I look through my cds with an eye for selling some, and get to thinking that maybe I should let go of that "Best of Luther, Best of Love" collection I have -- since so many of the songs seem just too slick and too overcooked and too phony ... well, I tell myself I'll give him a chance to defend himself. So I put the cd into my machine and I put on my headphones. And while I may be waffling about my devotion to him for the first few songs, when I get to "House Is Not A Home", he charms me back to his side every time, and his cd set stays in my collection.
― stripey, Friday, 18 November 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 18 November 2005 17:27 (twenty years ago)
― stripey, Friday, 18 November 2005 17:58 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 18 November 2005 17:59 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 November 2005 02:20 (twenty years ago)
*blush*
:)
― stripey, Monday, 21 November 2005 20:42 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 21 November 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 21 November 2005 21:14 (twenty years ago)
― stripey, Thursday, 5 January 2006 22:36 (twenty years ago)