Punkrock vs. Gothrock

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Attitude wise I surely prefer punk. More fun and more direct. More hurtful as well if you think about pogo. But music wise I am not so sure. The early Cure were much better than the Pistols. The only punk band I really ever liked were the Buzzcocks. Though both styles are one-trick ponies in a way. Maybe the fusion of goth and punk like in Joy Division is the apotheosis of the two genres. What do you think?

― alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry this was my second thread today. Won't do it again. Come on punx, are you afraid of cemeteries? And you goths, don't you like rats?

― alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Whatever you say, alex.

― Dr. C, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Christian Death!

― Brian Gallagher, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Easy one - I met prettier girls at 'Goth' gigs.

― Zanny G, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, the Goth babes are hotter...
Until its time for them to recite their 'poetry' to you. And then you
must sit
in cold silence
like a tombstone
in the land of eternal sleep

I swear these girls must use a (very simple) computer program to write these things.

Downside: Ever since Marilyn Manson replaced Andrew Eldridge as the reigning "Supreme Boi" the quality of the Goth Babes has plummeted.

― Lord Custos, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But anyhow. Back to Alex in Mainhattens question.
Actually, Goth Rock is an extension of Punk. The same way that Pink Floyd is a (*cough*) sophisticated version of the rock of the mid to late sixites.
Yes, friends and neighbors...The Cure is actually a Prog band.
But what ELP, Yes and Jethro Tull all failed at (creating atmospheric rock with the granduer and power of genuine Classical) the Goths succeeded, in my opinion.
And they did it with charm, style, fineesse, panache and SUBTLETY.*
*Subtle when you compare it to Apocalypses of AquaTarkuses.
I mean, really: whats easier to relate to...
a)Short stories of Heartbreak and rejection zestily ranted by some amusing goober dressed like a vampire? or
b)Long vague treatises on abstract minitaue (usually involving armadillo RoBeasts.) tediously spouted by some dour, coked-out psuedo-hippy who spends a whole side of an album doing "variations on scales" and then pats himself on the back thinking he's Ornette Coleman?
― Lord Custos, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Don't strain yourself. The answer is obvious.

― Lord Custos, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

b), I think.

― DG, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The real question though, for the purposes of this thread-- which is it easier to relate to:
a) short stories about rejection, depression, and spirits floating around your house hovering through the periphery of your consciousness, reminding you of the seething pit of fire and all the dead people you relate to better than anyone in your neighborhood;
b) hating everyone and everything, and occasionally fucking shit up?

― Sean Carruthers, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

b) again!

― DG, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Least interesting thread ever?

― Dr. C, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

What is it with you and Lord Custos, Dr C?

― DG, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

[sorry, that looks a bit snarky, I'm just wondering]

― DG, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I have no greivance against anyone, but ethan and DG hate my guts. Apparently my "Enya sings Dylan" comment got to them.

― Lord Custos, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

anyways, the cure are not really a goth band

― g, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Goth is silly, make-believe, overly-romantic necrophilia... have you ever picked up a copy of those mags Propaganda or The Sentimentalist? God, it makes me want to kill... weird, fey "outsiders" in heavy eyemakeup and rosaries, lighting a candle on a creepy crypt. The only band I ever like that was remotely 'goth' is the Birthday Party. (Incidentally, has anyone noticed that no matter how hard Cure fans try to pattern themselves after Robert Smith, with the tousled hair and smeared lipstick, they can never bring themselves to don the huge, brand new white unlaced Reeboks? They'll be in some patent-leather buckled pointy-toe things, and he's got these oversized white sneakers... if they really loved him, they'd wear those shoes too.)

Punk rules, of course.

― Andy, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

have you ever picked up a copy of those mags Propaganda or The Sentimentalist?

That'd be like judging punk by Maximum Rock and Roll.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 27 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Punk was as daff as ducks Andy! It was also completely make-believe, and overly-romantic and a tad necro...uh...(see Sid and Nancy). I think some of those Punk geezers may have even though of themselves as "outsiders." Did you know Andy that those mean and nasty Punks also wanted to "Search and Destroy" in dirty spray painted bathrooms, one low-wattage light bulb hanging from the ceiling while hawking empty slogans like "Blank, Vacant and White Riot?" They had dumb silly magazines called "Punk", and even "Sniffin Glue!" Those Punks, they acted real funny. Some wore crazy makeup and weird torn t-shirts and even dresses! Those silly Punkrockers. Boy, I'm glad those nice indie chaps came along and cleaned everything up. And you know Andy, honey, "Weird and fey" and wanted to kill? O my. Lookout or you'll lose this weirdo fey fella. Shame on you! I'll pass on next release.

― Fey Bob K, Thursday, 28 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"but ethan and DG hate my guts"
Do I?

― DG, Thursday, 28 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Andy: If you hate those two mags...you'll LOOOOOVE Carpe Noctem.

― Lord Custos, Thursday, 28 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

LC:"...but ethan and DG hate my guts..."
DG:Do I?
LC: Hmmm. Maybe not. Maybe I'm just being oversensitive or paranoid.
I know beyond any doubt that ethan dispises me to the deepest fiber of his inner being. :(
But I don't know you, DG, at all...maybe I'm confusing you with somebody else. :)
I do remember that right after the second thread I ever posted on ILM, I got the most fetid nastygram in the history of the internet. Still never figured out who it was that sent that.

― Lord Custos, Thursday, 28 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But anyhow, enough soap opera. We now return you to the thread already in progress.

Anyhow, Goth = solemn seriousness + atmosphere. Punk = crazed fun + anger. Goths should teach Punks subtlety and the Punks should teach the Goths to lighten up. As The Incredible Hank would say: "C'mon, heres some vitamin C and a gun, go out there a have fun."

― Lord Custos, Thursday, 28 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah Custos, you have confused me with someone else, I don't think I've said anything nasty about you anywhere.

― DG, Thursday, 28 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Then I humbly ask for your forgiveness.

― Lord Custos, Thursday, 28 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I vote for goth rock (and I love Carpe Noctem mag), but the early punk, the '77 stuff, was a damn good music. I love The Buzzcocks, Subway Sect, Vibrators, Kleenex, Stranglers. etc. And Sex Pistols were therapy for me. The first chords of "Anarchy in the U.K." was the best medicine for my Teenage Depresion. (By the way, I love Eddie And The Hot Rods too; I don't know if they were properly punks).

― carlos, Friday, 1 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It's kinda funny that no one has mentioned the Damned or Siouxsie at all, because if anyone really would straddle the line here, it'd be them. Why choose?

― Sean Carruthers, Friday, 1 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Of course, Siouxsie and The Damned are the people who made me love both punk and goth rock.

And what about "Baroque Bordello"? Maybe it's my idea, but I always felt it as the goth anthem from The Stranglers.

― carlos, Saturday, 2 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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