The "Music Genome" (apparently).

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Well, this is odd.

I decided to test it a bit. It recognized Boards of Canada, but not Meredith Monk; Laurie Anderson, but not Raymond Scott. They say that Nico makes "subtle use of the accordion" rather than the harmonium, and it chose Judy Collins as a similar artist. Quirky...

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http://www.pandora.com

The Music Genome is a detailed analysis of a century of popular music. We employee a large team of professional musicians who spend their days listening to music one song at a time and "analyzing" the detailed musical characteristics of the song. This includes obvious stuff like tempo and key, but more importantly it covers a lot of subtle nuance: how much tremolo in the voice, what kid of harmony, guitar picking style, how much cowbell, etc. In total we listen for hundreds of different qualities and painstakingly record the results for each some. After 5 years, we've built up an incredible asset that allows us predict music you will like based on simple input (for example, the name of an album, artist, or song that you love).

Myke Weiskopf (Myke Weiskopf), Saturday, 3 December 2005 03:12 (twenty years ago)

"obvious stuff like tempo and key"

yeah tell that to the orchestra that couldn't play the Fall's "The Classical".

sleeve (sleeve), Saturday, 3 December 2005 04:30 (twenty years ago)

It's a weird system.

Its playlist for artists that were ostensibly similar to Nico included Judy Collins, Masha Qrella, Tracy Chapman, Lali Puna, and (?!) Missing Persons.

The self-generated Laurie Anderson playlist was marginally more accurate, as it spat up a brace of agreeably off-centre avant-pop obscurities, but the Stina Nordenstam playlist based its entire idea of Stina's output from The World Is Saved, so it chose a lot of typical Swedish alt.rock like the Cardigans.

The Boards of Canada playlist was perfectly acceptable, but that's because I don't have an opinion either way about 99% of artists that are supposedly similar to Boards of Canada.

And in the "glaring omissions" department, it didn't recognize Steve Reich, Philip Glass, or Terry Riley. It seems to bomb out entirely on things in the 20th-century chamber music department.

Not a bad little surprise jukebox if you consider it completely arbitrarily, but I found myself having to click "I Don't Like It" for a lot of otherwise good music because it made no sense for the artist in question.

Myke Weiskopf (Myke Weiskopf), Saturday, 3 December 2005 04:55 (twenty years ago)

Similar to the Mekons - "Fuck and Run" by Liz Phair.
Then "Ohio" by Modest Mouse.

Their descriptions under "why did we play this song" are accurate in a dry, unhelpful way... but whatever algorithm they're using is a pretty good example of how music can't be distilled down to its strictly formal properties. That is, why aren't they playing me more songs about the Muggletonians or whiskey?

Then, it eventually just played the Mekons.

It may prove me wrong, though -- "Victoria" by the Fall ("subtle use of vocal harmony"!) is a pretty good choice.

A|ex P@reene (Pareene), Saturday, 3 December 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

For some reason with me they always find a way to lead it back to modern bands that are either too obscure or too new to have any AMG bio. No matter what I put in that's what it leads back to. I put in Link Wray and wound up with a bunch of new bands. I think they have some sort of marketing deal involved.

Remember how there was a character in Growing Pains called "Boner"?, Sunday, 4 December 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

i would use it more if it were called Nazi Music Genome.

Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Sunday, 4 December 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

the minutemen gave me these ten, in this order:

superchunk
eduardo bort
royal trux
the minutemen
silkworm
the ex
the minutemen
sham 69
girls against boys
bangs

I'm pretty pleased. It's also a little bit gratifying to be indirectly told that one of your favorite bands doesn't have that many sound-alikes.

regular roundups (Dave M), Sunday, 4 December 2005 01:46 (twenty years ago)

shudder to think gave me these (but not in this order):

jeff buckley
robert pollard
braid (twice)
pete yorn
31Knots (??)
new radiant storm king (??)
the flying nuns (who are kind of sweet)
shudder to think two more times

regular roundups (Dave M), Sunday, 4 December 2005 01:53 (twenty years ago)

young jeezy (who was described as having "hardcore-rap attitude, southern rap roots, r'n'b styles, and chill rhymes")

webbie (twice)
david banner (twice)
another jeezy track
daz dillinger
tony yayo (what?)
geto boys

i fuckin' love this shit. this is the new "set your music player of choice on random and report the first ten songs it plays." i am addicted.

regular roundups (Dave M), Sunday, 4 December 2005 02:00 (twenty years ago)

I tried it with Spoon (which prompted the query: artist or song?

And the playlist was:
Spoon "Sister Jack:
The Wedding Present "Jet Girl"
The Church "Chromium"
Michael Krassner "Glass in Garden"
Spoon "Carryout Kids"
Joggers "White Madam"
Portastatic "Through With People"
Jim Yoshii Pileup "Jailhouse Rock"
Spoon "Jonathan Fisk"
Graham Parker "There's Nothing On The Radio"

Binjominia (Brilhante), Sunday, 4 December 2005 02:30 (twenty years ago)

haha, shit, i tried it with spoon too and got a totally different, shittier list. it did play GBV though, so not all bad. it did the "artist or song?" query for david bowie too, for what it's worth.

regular roundups (Dave M), Sunday, 4 December 2005 02:33 (twenty years ago)

And The Fall, which is the band I plugged in next (I've been listening to Fall Heads Roll)

and the Music Genome Pandora thingy came up with:
The Fall "The N.W.R.A." (live)
New Order "Ceremony"
The Fall "Totally Wired" (live)
Eater "Lock It Up" (live)
Wreckless Eric "Semaphore Signals"
The Fall "Room to Live"
Guided By Voices "Not Behind The Fighter Jet"
The Makers "Please Kill Yourself"
Superchunk "Forged It"
The Fall "Slang King"

Binjominia (Brilhante), Sunday, 4 December 2005 02:37 (twenty years ago)

so much fall. that is too good.

regular roundups (Dave M), Sunday, 4 December 2005 02:38 (twenty years ago)

This is probably boring, but I'm way more obsessed with Pandora's business model than the actual service. In particular, they seem to be operating under a radio compulsory license, which is the only way to explain having access to music like the Beatles. In other words, unlike iTunes, etc., they don't have licenses with each individual artist, but rather use the music and pay a compulsory license the same way a radio station does. They skirt the issue by making the music not 100% on-demand - so if you put in a band like the Fall, it'll come up every 3rd or 4th song or so.

Anyhoo, if they could 1) continue to improve the songs picked 2) improve the ability to tap into other people's playlists (along the lines of Friendster/Myspace where you have an identity and whatnot) and 3) eventually figure out a way to broadcast over XM or Sirius, I think they'll be on to something.

Aaron W (Aaron W), Sunday, 4 December 2005 03:02 (twenty years ago)

pretty good! The Felix da Housecat page it made is a little too acid/loungey/chill but they were good songs anyway. The Belle and Sebastian page(which it created first w/o my prompting - probably just coincidental product positioning but they're a favorite of mine so it was kind of creepy) is drawing from more recent stuff evidently - more powerpoppy than pastoral but there was some good stuff.

tremendoid (tremendoid), Sunday, 4 December 2005 03:07 (twenty years ago)

I liked it better before I got to this step:

"Unfortunately, our music licenses force us to limit the number of songs you may skip each hour. Sit back and enjoy the music for now..."

Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Sunday, 4 December 2005 03:09 (twenty years ago)

Aaron, I think you're exactly right. Because if you skip ahead too many times, they tell you to "just relax and enjoy the music" because there is a limit to how many songs they can skp over/play in an hour. (haha, xpost)

I really REALLY like this, though. I'm actually making a list of all the discoveries I'm making for Christmas.

And my Shudder to Think station just came up with "Long Distance Runner". I'm in love.

regular roundups (Dave M), Sunday, 4 December 2005 03:15 (twenty years ago)

Also, I think it is totally possible that they have some sort of marketing deal with newer bands/labels, 'cause I'm getting a lot. But they aren't horrible, and as long as you can still guide and skip, I'm good.

regular roundups (Dave M), Sunday, 4 December 2005 03:17 (twenty years ago)

If you get the "no more skipping -- sit back and listen" message, you can delete the "station" and re-create it, which gives you a new playlist, not the same songs.

Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Sunday, 4 December 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

"We employee a large team of professional musicians who spend their days listening to music one song at a time and "analyzing" the detailed musical characteristics of the song."

I can't decide if this sounds like a dream job or a nightmare.

Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Sunday, 4 December 2005 03:38 (twenty years ago)

Nightmare. But don't worry, it's all offshored anyway. Musicians are paid $0.12 USD per song analyzed, and errors in analysis are punishable by flogging. The younger ones really seem to enjoy it - you should really see their faces light up when they get a chance to break down prog-metal time signatures.

rogermexico (rogermexico), Sunday, 4 December 2005 03:45 (twenty years ago)

they just Geir working there.

Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Sunday, 4 December 2005 03:49 (twenty years ago)

(xpost) Ah, I've heard about these music theory sweatshops!

Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Sunday, 4 December 2005 03:49 (twenty years ago)

Just read through these comments with great interest. I founded this company almost 6 years ago - really fun to finally be able to have it in use and get direct feedback. Couple thoughts. First, I can't believe you guessed our per song fee (though it's $0.05 for the child analysts) Fortunately, we make it all back by requiring them to buy from our over-priced lunch room and pocketing the profits. We stopped flogging because it was just too physcially exhausting for the managers.

Seriously though, it's a great gig. $17.50/hour. One I would have happily taken years ago when I was touring and living on ramen.

The playlist feedback is great. Always interested to hear 'seeds' that don't produce good results. Sometimes it's an artist with a broad range (does Nico qualify for that?). Have any of you tried starting with a particular song by the artist? That should focus the playlist more - you can also input multiple seed songs on one station.

Re. Chamber music - we don't have classical music at all yet. It's in the works, but still a ways off. IF one creeps in, it's by accident - and not surprised that it gives lousy results.

The descriptions are definitely a work in progress - I know they must seem repetivite and somewhat dry. We're working on it. Each song gets close to 400 attributes measured so there's lots of raw material- we're trying to think of elegant ways to surface more of this detail.

Re. licensing - you're correct about the licensing - we fall under the guidelines of the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) which governs webcasting.

Networking/community are definitely in the cards. Music is such a social thing, and we think pandora could be a great way of connecting folks with similar musical tastes.

Also - no deals about what gets played. We'll NEVER play a song because we got paid to do it. We also don't favor newer or more indie stuff, it just happens to comprise a large percentage of what we've analyzed. One of our principle missions is to help expose people to stuff they haven't heard.

Look forward to hearing more of your thoughts. Cheers. Tim

Tim Westergren, Sunday, 4 December 2005 05:02 (twenty years ago)

My Shudder to Think station gives me WAY too much nu-emo. Not sure who's fault this is. But I know I wouldn't care if Tim gave me a job. Cha-Ching!

regular roundups (Dave M), Sunday, 4 December 2005 05:31 (twenty years ago)

I tried this in August and remember finding some good music out of it. I think one day we'll be able to use technology like this to make great guesses as to what songs influenced other songs and artists based on similarities, songwriter's musiclog/lastfm, era, etc.

Cunga (Cunga), Sunday, 4 December 2005 05:52 (twenty years ago)

Sometimes it's an artist with a broad range (does Nico qualify for that?)

Well, it was weird. The first time I launched the Nico station, it started with a track off of The Marble Index, which is the album that really became the template for all of her work going forward. But the second time I launched, it started with a track from Chelsea Girl, which is her rather hippy-dippy, more traditionally folksy/acoustic first album - the sort of "odd man out" in her catalogue. But Pandora changed not only its entire description of Nico's music from square one, it also changed the direction of the subsequent playlist. Straneg how the randomizer's choice of specific discographical item can (apparently) so severely warp which "genre path" it chooses for the artist in question.

Anyway, if you're fixing for a solution to dear Nico, I'd definitely err on the side of goth/chamber music, as opposed to Judy Collins. Yuck.

Myke Weiskopf (Myke Weiskopf), Sunday, 4 December 2005 06:50 (twenty years ago)

four weeks pass...
It's grown on me. Make sure you enter a song title and not an artist, or it won't make any sense. I still end up skipping every third track or so, but it generally picks pretty good background music. Though the "why did we play this song" thingy did accuse Conor Oberst of writing "great lyrics." My favorite "station" I've picked so far is songs similar to "Rain Dogs."

A|ex P@reene (Pareene), Monday, 2 January 2006 01:03 (twenty years ago)


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