I like their newer stuff better...

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"I like their older stuff better" is often heard when discussing almost any band that has a dividing line between "older" and "not older" (whether that line is an era, an album or a single song).

I was always under the impression that as people did things for a longer time they got better at it. Is it really accurate that musicians make worse music as they go along? If so, that assumes that youthful enthusiasm trumps mastering one's craft, unless nostalgia on the part of the listeners clouds judgement.

What groups got better with time? I can think of a few off the top of my head:

Husker Du
Voivod
Beatles
Faith No More

I could be talked into The Replacements even though I still adore Sorry, Ma....

I could also be talked out of believing the chiche as a whole has any merit at all...

― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Sunday, 15 January 2006 10:21 (twenty years ago)

smashing pumpkins
will oldham

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Sunday, 15 January 2006 10:32 (twenty years ago)

Talk Talk
Yo La Tengo

― Jack Battery-Pack (Jack Battery-Pack), Sunday, 15 January 2006 11:46 (twenty years ago)

Pulp

― Merryweather (scarlet), Sunday, 15 January 2006 11:47 (twenty years ago)

Radiohead

― Mike W (caek), Sunday, 15 January 2006 11:49 (twenty years ago)

Embrace.
Orbital.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 15 January 2006 11:51 (twenty years ago)

This is from a piece I wrote on third albums:

If the first two albums were succesful there can be opportunity to experiment, but also a pressure to continue a winning formula. And fatally, there can be a lack of ideas. "Your first couple of records are based on your twenty-odd years of experience. The third record is all the experience you've had in between record one and record two. But that experience is basically just touring", explains David Byrne of Talking Heads in a recent book about the band.

Byrne's idea offeres a reasonably convincing explanation for why the older stuff is often better.

― Mike W (caek), Sunday, 15 January 2006 11:55 (twenty years ago)

Herbie Hancock.

Miles Davis (if by newer stuff one means the electric era).

Many more jazzers probably, since jazz is one of the genres where exprience is actually appreciated. Ditto for blues, I think.

Nas (and I know everyone disagrees with me on this, but fuck it, I
think his three latest albums are all better than Illmatic).

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 15 January 2006 12:28 (twenty years ago)

I like Spandau Ballet's 3rd and 4th albums ("the commercial ones") much better than their first two.

― brittle-lemon (brittle-lemon), Sunday, 15 January 2006 13:08 (twenty years ago)

beatles
gorky's zygotic mynci
arcturus
tom waits

― Wogan Lenin (dog latin), Sunday, 15 January 2006 15:08 (twenty years ago)

Einsterzende Neubauten

I liked Tabula Rasa when it came out, when they went all soft.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Sunday, 15 January 2006 15:24 (twenty years ago)

Ut
Of Montreal
The Shadow Ring
The Verlaines (w/ exception of last album which wasn't as good as the two before it)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 15 January 2006 16:48 (twenty years ago)

I agree w/ Ut.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Sunday, 15 January 2006 16:53 (twenty years ago)

I was going to say Of Montreal also. I haven't heard the whole of the last one, but everything I've heard off of it interested me way, way more than any of the earlier, more conventionally E6-y stuff. See also Robert Schneider, whose newish Marbles CD does the same trick of marrying the 60s songwriting and optimism with 80s arrangements. Refreshing.

― Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 15 January 2006 16:55 (twenty years ago)

I think The Passage got better with every album.

― Patrick South (Patrick South), Sunday, 15 January 2006 17:12 (twenty years ago)

The Flaming Lips- adding Drozd made a huge difference.

― Anthony Lombardi (CCPO), Sunday, 15 January 2006 17:24 (twenty years ago)

I was always under the impression that as people did things for a longer time they got better at it.

there are a lot of fields where this is often not true, from film (anyone want to take coppola's later work over "the godfather," or the three newer "star wars" movies over the three older ones?), to mathematics (which has always been fueled by bursts of creativity and insight from the very young), to athletics (duh).

pop music generally requires craft, genius and a little bit of magic dust, and most people seem to get that magic dust in very limited supply. some expend it right away, some save it for five or ten years later, but either way that magic-dust-fueled era of greatness is going to be short.

some exceptions who were great when they were young but still managed to save their best for a decade or so into their careers:

prince
james brown
rolling stones
stevie wonder
frank sinatra
madonna
mariah carey
bruce springsteen

but even so, after that decade or so, the decline most definitely set in, no matter how hard they tried. except for mariah, who may well be at her peak right now. but just give her time.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Sunday, 15 January 2006 17:24 (twenty years ago)

the verlaines? hmmmm...surely the juvenalia comp, hallelujah and bird-dog are the best verlaines records. no? i still love the others and some disenchanted evening is the fourth best record now that i think about it. mid period of montreal is best, gay parade, singles and songles and coquelicot are my faves.

― keyth (keyth), Sunday, 15 January 2006 17:27 (twenty years ago)

No, keyth, i disagree about the Verlaines. He turned it up a notch with Some Disenchanted Evening and Ready to Fly is even greater. And we've disagreed on this topic re. Of Montreal before.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 15 January 2006 17:29 (twenty years ago)

Yo La Tengo again (old noise stuff was alright, new jazzy light pop stuff WAY better)

― Big Big Big Big Big, Sunday, 15 January 2006 18:13 (twenty years ago)

Beatles has already been mentioned.
Coil got better over time.
Boredoms.
Pink Floyd. (By "newer" I mean DSotM -> Final Cut, not the post-Waters period...)

― vartman (novaheat), Sunday, 15 January 2006 19:43 (twenty years ago)

Not that anyone here would agree, but I truly think each of REM's first five albums improves on the predecessor (OK, Murmur beats Reckoning on atmospherics etc).

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 15 January 2006 20:08 (twenty years ago)

Mott The Hoople
Fleetwood Mac

― John Fredland (jfredland), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:49 (twenty years ago)

Of Montreal OTM.
Also XTC and The Jam: both their first two albums were much weaker than their records after.

― zeus (zeus), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:56 (twenty years ago)

Kylie Minogue
Mogwai
The Delgados

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 15 January 2006 22:59 (twenty years ago)

rainer maria. outrageous cherry.

― jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Sunday, 15 January 2006 23:05 (twenty years ago)

Black Eyed Peas

― sovietpanda (sovietpanda), Sunday, 15 January 2006 23:09 (twenty years ago)

Stereolab. The early stuff is ok but I love them all clean and funky and tortois-ey.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Sunday, 15 January 2006 23:33 (twenty years ago)

Low
Plastikman

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 15 January 2006 23:37 (twenty years ago)

I always felt like a twat cos I listened to Dylan albums like "Knocked Out Loaded" and "Down In The Groove" much more than I listened to Highway 61, Blonde On Blonde etc, but now that Bob has recorded some gems i the autumn of his career, such as Oh Mercy, TOOM, Love & Theft, I don't feel so bad for preferring later Dylan...

― musicjohn73 (musicjohn73), Sunday, 15 January 2006 23:50 (twenty years ago)

Muslimgauze. Bryn Jones went crazy with his distorted monster of a home studio right around 1996. The stuff is vastly different and gives me endless pleasure.

― sleeve (sleeve), Sunday, 15 January 2006 23:57 (twenty years ago)

Dismemberment Plan

I totally agree on the Of Montreal front
I also have to second Stereolab.

― Cliftonb, Monday, 16 January 2006 00:03 (twenty years ago)

Radiohead

― Turangalila (Salvador), Monday, 16 January 2006 00:18 (twenty years ago)

Supergrass

Radiohead fit in here in the 90s only.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 16 January 2006 02:19 (twenty years ago)

I think Fugazi got almost consistently better at least through Red Medicine, and I liked both of the albums after that as well.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Monday, 16 January 2006 02:58 (twenty years ago)

Nirvana, definitely. Bleach is a terrible album (and I can't stand it when hardcore Nirvana fans prefer it to their other stuff).

Wilco's definitely gotten better with time too.

― Harrison Barr (Petar), Monday, 16 January 2006 04:06 (twenty years ago)

Thin Lizzy, pretty much, if "newer stuff" = 1976-1980ish

― disco violence (disco violence), Monday, 16 January 2006 04:33 (twenty years ago)

I add a hearty second or third to Yo La Tengo, Stereolab, Neubauten. Personal preferences also suggest:

Cocteau Twins
American Music Club
Everything But The Girl
Nick Cave
The Notwist
Tori Amos

In the extreme short-term-forecast mode, I think Antony's singing has improved ten-thousand-fold in the last year of solid touring. The man deserves a live album to set the contrast.

― Myke Weiskopf (Myke Weiskopf), Monday, 16 January 2006 04:44 (twenty years ago)

Paul Simon
Roxy Music
James Brown
All of these up to a point obviously.

The Beatles is not a correct answer.

― Burr (Burr), Monday, 16 January 2006 04:54 (twenty years ago)

"Bleach is a terrible album (and I can't stand it when hardcore Nirvana fans prefer it to their other stuff)."

Why? I believe it is their best album, along with In Utero. Unpolished Nirvana works a thousand times better than clean Nirvana.

― Lee is Free (Lee is Free), Monday, 16 January 2006 05:37 (twenty years ago)

Fugazi seconded.

― sleeve (sleeve), Monday, 16 January 2006 06:40 (twenty years ago)

The Smiths

― Sym Sym (sym), Monday, 16 January 2006 07:08 (twenty years ago)

tonight, reading this thread and others, I feel like anthony anderson's fast food dude in 'harold and kumar', I just wanna burn this motherfucker to the ground

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 16 January 2006 07:12 (twenty years ago)

There is no way the last 2 Cocteaus albums are better than the rest of their work. The last album was very bland! You cannot possibly say that last stuff is better than say, Treasure or Victorialand. Still, personal preference and all that.

My vote's for Skinny Puppy, which Im sure will irritate many SP fans.

― Trayce (trayce), Monday, 16 January 2006 07:36 (twenty years ago)

Lil Beethoven still is my favourite Sparks album.

― snowballing (snowballing), Monday, 16 January 2006 07:55 (twenty years ago)

My Bloody Valentine
Blur
the Boo Radleys
Moose
Muse

― BeeOK (boo radley), Monday, 16 January 2006 09:03 (twenty years ago)

current 93
nurse with wound
talk talk
radiohead
do make say think

― rizzx, Monday, 16 January 2006 09:06 (twenty years ago)

There is no way the last 2 Cocteaus albums are better than the rest of their work. The last album was very bland! You cannot possibly say that last stuff is better than say, Treasure or Victorialand.

Victorialand?! Talk about bland. But anyway, yes, I said it :-D

― Myke Weiskopf (Myke Weiskopf), Monday, 16 January 2006 11:31 (twenty years ago)

bob dylan

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 16 January 2006 15:52 (twenty years ago)

Royal Trux
Jonathan Richman (sometimes) (maybe if "newer stuff" = 1980s)

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 16 January 2006 15:55 (twenty years ago)

Well, Voivod definitely improved from the early stuff to Nothingface but no way is the last album an improvement on that era.

Fred Frith.

― Sundar (sundar), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:04 (twenty years ago)

Problem is almost all these bands who got better with the time eventually got worse again, a bell curve kind of career arc. Tom Waits and Flaming lips, for example.

― Mark (MarkR), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:12 (twenty years ago)

With most of these I agree but I really think Fred Frith's entire career has been one of steady progression and improvement.

― Sundar (sundar), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:16 (twenty years ago)

The Ex! (Second half of career miles better than first half)
Sufjan Stevens

― Douglas (Douglas), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:42 (twenty years ago)

the Ex and Fugazi are good examples.

I like Shellac better than Big Black.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 16 January 2006 18:39 (twenty years ago)

Mouse on Mars
Flaming Lips

― That I Could Clamber to the Frozen Moon and Draw the Ladder (Freud Junior), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 05:37 (twenty years ago)

Beyonce's singles now are better than early Destiny's Child.

And Bjork's recent stuff is more interesting than the now almost pedestrian Debut.

― Viz (Viz), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 06:15 (twenty years ago)

Robyn

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 07:03 (twenty years ago)

I totally agree on the Of Montreal front

Strongly disagree here. The last two or three records have left me cold, and the first few are favorites of mine.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 07:40 (twenty years ago)

I think rappers suffer from this less, with the exception of Pac and Biggie who were a lot worse after they died.

― Jacob (Jacob), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 08:38 (twenty years ago)

You wouldn't know it talking to rap fans.

― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 16:33 (twenty years ago)

seven months pass...

Destroyer
Low

Dare I say..Belle and Sebastian

― Chris Grasinger (gman59), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 03:08 (nineteen years ago)

Pulp is probably the most OTM comparison here. They went out on such a high note that I honestly felt that they probably had two or three albums left in them. Kudos for quitting whilst ahead, though.

Mogwai have just blotted their copybook IMO, but that's another debate.

My two suggestions are Wilco and Hood, however.

― Obvious Ninja (Haberdager), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 07:28 (nineteen years ago)

eighteen years pass...

Broadcast

― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 8 May 2025 23:10 (nine months ago)

Pulp is probably the most OTM comparison here. They went out on such a high note that I honestly felt that they probably had two or three albums left in them. Kudos for quitting whilst ahead, though.

Surprise...!

― A Single Block of Aluminum (morrisp), Thursday, 8 May 2025 23:29 (nine months ago)

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