why is it that since jesus and mary chain, rock bands have gotten shit for making 'record collection rock' and being derivative, when bands like the stones essentially made record collection rock as

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but even then, late 60s albums like let it bleed and beggars just had them doing country blues that wasnt really that rocky at all. it was pretty much purist type material. someone explain why the stones get away with regurgitating their record collection but jesus and mary chain and primal scream et al dont?

― okok, Friday, 13 January 2006 12:00 (twenty years ago)

Jesus and Mary Chain?!??! Nope, just Primal Scream.

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:04 (twenty years ago)

There came a point in Bobby Gillepsie's career when it appeared you were supposed to sit back and applaud him for his musical taste rather than his music, that's the difference. I mean, Mark Perry had far better musical taste in 1978 (if you check the cover tp Alternative TV's 1st album) but he didn't expect the world to pin a medal on him for it.

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:06 (twenty years ago)

there is also an argument that the stones were actually better than the record collections they ransacked: something no one is likely to argue for primal scream.

― peter gaynor, Friday, 13 January 2006 12:07 (twenty years ago)

Jesus and Mary Chain got away.

Primal Scream are still going, but they can't be accused of regurgitating their record collection, not thesedays. Well, not as blatantly as their first album's Byrds/Love stuff.

xpost, sure but in those days, everyone had to give props to the Vu/Love/Byrds and namecheck sedgewick/warhol. Difference is, now there's a wider range of 'influences'/references they can call on, and no-one is necessarily assuming they are 'educating' us on the Kraut/obscure stuff, as their audience is at least as sussed about all that as they are.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:08 (twenty years ago)

Everyone knew about VU/Love/Byrds in 1980

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:11 (twenty years ago)

Everyone knew about VU/Love/Byrds in 1980, if not before

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:13 (twenty years ago)

But everyone knew about VU/Love/Byrds in 1980, if not before - they certainly did in Glasgow!

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:13 (twenty years ago)

I got it right eventually!

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:13 (twenty years ago)

Ha ha, I remember when JAMC first came out, thinking "Christ they're surely not trying to pull off that Velvets/ black sunglasses/ leather jacket Warhol shit? That's so fucking old hat!"

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:15 (twenty years ago)

I was kind of hoping you were going to keep adding to that, one phrase at a time, for the next 43 posts.

PRML SCRM can so be accused of regurgitating their rekkid collection, only "we are like can/pil" as opposed to "we are like arthurly/rog mcguinn" they are the worst band of the '90's.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:16 (twenty years ago)

Also, the first time I heard the term "record collection rock" it was pointed at "bandwagonesque", probably quite fairly, although their record collection at the time must have consisted of like 3 big star records.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:18 (twenty years ago)

... and the VU/Love/Byrds of course!

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:18 (twenty years ago)

Several hundred Japanese bands to thread

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:20 (twenty years ago)

I thought the VU hated birds, that's why they were based in NY.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:20 (twenty years ago)

What about Lou Reed's bluebirds on his shoulder in "Candy Says"? "Arrrrrr, Jim, lad" and all that?

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:22 (twenty years ago)

... oh hold on tho, they're flying OVER his shoulder

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:23 (twenty years ago)

'metal box' is record collection rock.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:28 (twenty years ago)

ooh, look at my dub! look at my krautrock!

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:28 (twenty years ago)

"Metal Box" is shit as well.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:30 (twenty years ago)

PiL = gr8 singles band, rubbish albums band (apart from the 1st album, which r0x0r)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:30 (twenty years ago)

isn't pretty much all early punk/post-punk "record collection rock"?

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:31 (twenty years ago)

Pashmina you so crazy

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:31 (twenty years ago)

i agree, the first PIL album is >>>>>>metal box. i find metal box kinda annoying and longwinded.

― okok, Friday, 13 January 2006 12:36 (twenty years ago)

by the way, this post was inspired by simon reynolds saying jesus and mary chain were in a way, the start of record collection rock in his post punk book rip it up and start again.

in a way, all artists are record collection artists arent they? the ensuing greatness just depends on how well they hide it though.

― okok, Friday, 13 January 2006 12:38 (twenty years ago)

Most of the mud thrown the the stones way is deftly sidestepped by their abilty to right good songs.

Primal Scream never got better after fucken Velocity Girl. That was ace though...

― The Velvet Overlord (The Velvet Overlord), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:38 (twenty years ago)

'metal box' is record collection rock

Ok then, Krautrock = record collection rock. What isn't record collection rock?

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:42 (twenty years ago)

Several hundred Japanese bands to thread

But why do people (ie the Wire) give them a much easier ride for it?

― sdsfdfssd, Friday, 13 January 2006 12:44 (twenty years ago)

Because Japan is hip - at least until China takes over (which is already happening at Wire)

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:45 (twenty years ago)

... David Toop's discovered China - watch the fuck out!!!!!!

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:46 (twenty years ago)

in a way, all artists are record collection artists arent they? the ensuing greatness just depends on how well they hide it though.

I dunno, I don't think that flaunting your influences is necessarily a bad thing. Someone like Spacemen 3 is for me a classic example of a band that absolutely rips off all the same old obvious canonical stuff (Stooges/Velvets/MC5/Suicide), but at the same time, they were still very much themselves and not just copping postures.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 13 January 2006 12:52 (twenty years ago)

i was gonna say spacemen 3 too - like Nick points out, they were somehow themselves even at their most reverential/ripofferential, at least in hindsight. i think i thought they layed it on a little thick when i first heard them, but i like em more now. it also helped that they were listening to the staple singers and red crayola and bo diddley as well as the usual sixties suspects (what they were listening to was in fact pretty great, at least according to that "Spacelines" comp that Sonic Boom put together http://www.sonic-boom.info/spacelines.php - maybe the best record I've picked up in awhile. rolf harris!)...

Meanwhile The Brian Jonestown Massacre seem like a BAD version of record collection rock based on records they heard about from Spacemen 3.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 13 January 2006 14:44 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

Great thread.

― stephen, Sunday, 10 August 2008 03:37 (eighteen years ago)

i LOVE music!

― PappaWheelie V, Sunday, 10 August 2008 03:39 (eighteen years ago)

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