Do you think many young people who are into the sort of new wave of rock music care very much about '90s alternative *classics*?

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Because I was just in the car and flipping between the two alternative rock stations and I heard Interpol (or maybe it was She Wants Revenge! I didn't know the song) and then I heard "Loser" by Beck and it just felt obligatory. I wonder if many young people who might be into Strokes or Interpol or Franz Ferdinand or White Stripes or Bloc Party or Death Cab for Cutie really want to hear Beck and Nirvana.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 4 February 2006 21:23 (twenty years ago)

Several of those who like Beck and Nirvana also tend to like U2, Smiths, David Bowie, Jimi Hendrix or The Beatles.

I guess that answers your question.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 4 February 2006 21:31 (twenty years ago)

no i dont think they do

theres definitely been a sea change in the uk, 90s indie music, a la charlatans, stone roses, oasis, blur, has all but disappeared from indie clubs, er, i have been told;)

i cant remember the last time i heard the awful charlatans out! and suede! incredibly unlikely

i actually heard stone roses in a bar last night, and it was kind of strange

obviously this is all uk-specific, i imagine it to be the same in the usa

― terry lennox. (gareth), Saturday, 4 February 2006 21:35 (twenty years ago)

I think there are probably younger kids who listen to Nirvana with some sort of reverence, and maybe there will be even more with distance, just as I knew tons of teens in the 90s who revered Zeppelin and Floyd.

I've seen high school kids each with tees for Nirvana, Velvet Underground, Blondie, and more than one of each.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Saturday, 4 February 2006 21:45 (twenty years ago)

Beck might not survive as well. It's hard to say. Or maybe because he's still kicking around it's not as possible to build up reverence for him.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Saturday, 4 February 2006 21:46 (twenty years ago)

were there really that many 90's alternatve *classics* ? i don't think so. you might as well be asking, do these kids (and i think you need to draw a line between pre-college/college age, as it is often the during the college years that one gets into diff stuff) care very much about tom waits or mingus. know what i mean? unless a band is a giant blips on the modern media lifleline, (most) of the kids won't know

― no bnes, Saturday, 4 February 2006 21:58 (twenty years ago)

i think you're right. the attention that say beck still gets is holdover, its pure pazz and jop, thirtyish plus people. what else could explain it after hearing those last couple of records!
whats interesting to me tho is how the people from @10-25 right now, particulary in the somehow bigger than ever skate world, are fascinated by the time just before all this stuff hit. they are into gnr, nwa, moz, even sonic youth and butthole surfers and that seems to qualify. i think its put down to those things seeming like genuine folk phenomenas now, of the sort we will never see again (like nwa and gnr going to no. 1 with fairly little apparatus, comparitively)
they could get into nirvana too because they never got old, but they don't seem to feel as much like they missed something in that case

― noizem duke (noize duke), Saturday, 4 February 2006 22:00 (twenty years ago)

"i think youre right" directed at thread query

― noizem duke (noize duke), Saturday, 4 February 2006 22:00 (twenty years ago)

i was going to bring this up in the pumpkins thread, but i can't bear actually thinking about them
although i just saw corgan on tv revering the pixies, and can tell you he's about to find out that his reunion won't go quite like theirs.
the arc is exact opposite

― noizem duke (noize duke), Saturday, 4 February 2006 22:03 (twenty years ago)

well that always makes sense as 20 years ago is always more interesting than 10 years ago, partly because 10 years ago is 'older brother syndrome'

― terry lennox. (gareth), Saturday, 4 February 2006 22:14 (twenty years ago)

A decent amount of high school kids in 2006 enjoy "Loser," Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins.

Is "older brother syndrome" a real thing?

― billstevejim (billstevejim), Saturday, 4 February 2006 22:40 (twenty years ago)

did you see that nme british album list? i think that was a fairly accurate representaion of the status of 90s indie in current terms. i think it would not be to hard to find an indie club playing the likes of blur, pulp, oasis etc. there is just a lot of fragmentation in the british "indie" world now i think.

― pscott (elwisty), Saturday, 4 February 2006 22:47 (twenty years ago)

For me the connection between this stuff seems pretty clear. I mean, people my age probably had to get into Nirvana after the fact, but given the levels of reverence given to them by Spin, Rolling Stone, etc. and the amount of radio play that they've received since on the exact same stations that play your Franz, Strokes, etc., I can't help but think that there are a lot of people out there that are into both. This probably goes for Beck too, especially since he's still putting out records.

― running in circles (running in circles), Saturday, 4 February 2006 23:23 (twenty years ago)

Which I guess doesn't exactly answer whether the kids *want* to hear these things together. I guess at 21 I'm not one of "the kids" anymore, but I do feel like most of the people I know who buy White Stripes CDs have a pretty high regard for what you might condsider an American '90s alt rock canon, if that doesn't make you cringe too much.

― running in circles (running in circles), Saturday, 4 February 2006 23:37 (twenty years ago)

Why listen to Nirvana when you can party with Franz?

― WillS, Saturday, 4 February 2006 23:59 (twenty years ago)

You guys are weird. The people with the most respect for 90s alt "classics" are kids who like metal, nu-metal, and commercial rock. Teenagers who like System of a Down may well like Soundgarden or Alice in Chains. Teenagers who like Staind may well like Pearl Jam. Teenagers who like Linkin Park may well like Smashing Pumpkins or Depeche Mode. Teenagers who like Yellowcard may well like Nirvana or Green Day. There's no reason why one decade's mainstream alt-rock would pair up with the next decade's mainstream alt-rock; the whole effect of its mainstreaming is that it's more likely to become the basis for the next decade's regular-old mainstream. This would be one of many reasons why music changes across time.

― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 4 February 2006 23:59 (twenty years ago)

Plus especially consider that the tone and aspirations of the current new-wave crop are very much opposed to the tone and aspirations of the mainstream end of 90s alternative. We could go into that in depth, but one easy shorthand would be that today's new-wave crop WEAR TIES. Nineties alt showed up in cargo shorts, dude, and so did Limp Bizkit.

― nabisco (nabisco), Sunday, 5 February 2006 00:03 (twenty years ago)

yeah but thats all taking it up a notch to talking about real mainstream. thread began predicated more on the idea of 'alternative.' admittedly relatively hi-profile alternative, but those bands arent who were we talking about. i don't think.

― noizem duke (noize duke), Sunday, 5 February 2006 00:06 (twenty years ago)

This is pretty smart.

Also worth noting is that many of the artists who made these "90s alternative classics" are still among the most popular bands in alt-rock--Beck, Weezer, RATM & Soundgarden (via Audioslave), The Foo Fighters and Nine Inch Nails all went to #1 on the MR charts last year (the last two multiple times).

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Sunday, 5 February 2006 01:43 (twenty years ago)

people tend to miss the point that music is fashion, before anything else, in the same way that a coat is fashion before it is a coat.

― she she she, Sunday, 5 February 2006 02:00 (twenty years ago)

I guess at 21 I'm not one of "the kids" anymore,

NOOOOOOOOO! I'll be 22 next month! I'm too young to get old!!

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Sunday, 5 February 2006 03:18 (twenty years ago)

I wonder if many young people who might be into Strokes or Interpol or Franz Ferdinand or White Stripes or Bloc Party or Death Cab for Cutie really want to hear Beck and Nirvana.

I haven't met anyone at my school who's crazy about *both* of these kinds of music. I know a bunch of indie kids who like that first set (tho the White Stripes are kind of an anomaly in that group - they're probably closer to the grunge/post-grunge aesthetic than any of the others) - but they aren't exactly the ones listening to rock radio. These days rock radio seems to shoot as MOR as possible, sticking with one or two songs from the "new wave" as well as bands like Beck and Nirvana and Audioslave. Personally I hope that latter contingent gets wiped out as quickly as possible because I'm tired of rock radio being stuck in 1994. There's still a market of people who want teh heavy crunch and angst, but it seems to be getting smaller.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 5 February 2006 04:55 (twenty years ago)

I'm glad rock bands are getting back into glam makeup + skinny new wave ties, now if only they'd ditch the guitars and screaming and record a Seventeen Seconds redux.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 5 February 2006 04:58 (twenty years ago)

Why listen to Nirvana when you can party with Franz?

-- WillS (omelet4t...), February 4th, 2006.

...

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 5 February 2006 05:00 (twenty years ago)

(and I wish Interpol/She Wants Revenge would stop mixing up their doomy goths with their Michael Stipes)

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 5 February 2006 05:00 (twenty years ago)

xpost Oh come on, ILXors don't REALLY like Kurt Cobain do they?

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 5 February 2006 05:00 (twenty years ago)

Dude, Generation X is going to be like the boomers in that their sceptre will hover for fucking ever.

Ever been to a high school and seen what T-shirts the kids wear? Nirvana, Beastie Boys, Green Day, Offspring, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Smashing Pumpkins, Korn, Alice In Chains.

Rock radio still holds on to that shit, so the kids just follow along... just like kids in the 90s wore Metallica, Led Zepplin, Hendrix...

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Sunday, 5 February 2006 06:47 (twenty years ago)

The people with the most respect for 90s alt "classics" are kids who like metal, nu-metal, and commercial rock. Teenagers who like System of a Down may well like Soundgarden or Alice in Chains. Teenagers who like Staind may well like Pearl Jam. Teenagers who like Linkin Park may well like Smashing Pumpkins or Depeche Mode. Teenagers who like Yellowcard may well like Nirvana or Green Day. There's no reason why one decade's mainstream alt-rock would pair up with the next decade's mainstream alt-rock; the whole effect of its mainstreaming is that it's more likely to become the basis for the next decade's regular-old mainstream.

I don't understand what you mean by this -- are you drawing distinctions between "alt-rock," "mainstream alt-rock" and "regular old mainstream?"

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Sunday, 5 February 2006 06:53 (twenty years ago)

Why would anyone want to listen to Nirvana, let alone them kids wearing ties these days?

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!! (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Sunday, 5 February 2006 08:49 (twenty years ago)

But kids with ties listening to Nirvana? What kind of a world do we live in!?!?

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Sunday, 5 February 2006 13:01 (twenty years ago)

I don't understand what you mean by this -- are you drawing distinctions between "alt-rock," "mainstream alt-rock" and "regular old mainstream?"

"mainstream alt-rock" = rock radio
"regular-old mainstream" = top 40

The tendency for things on rock radio to become more and more mainstreamed = the style that characterizes today's mainstream rock will in 5-10 years' time seep more and more into top 40 radio. Hence Green Day and Weezer all over the 2005 pop charts.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 5 February 2006 17:19 (twenty years ago)

theres definitely been a sea change in the uk, 90s indie music, a la charlatans, stone roses, oasis, blur, has all but disappeared from indie clubs, er, i have been told;)

They are still riding high. Just look at the Q readers' lists of the 100 best albums ever, containing several of these bands. Plus the fact that the Q readers' 100 favourite tracks of 2005 included more or less every single track on the Oasis album.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 5 February 2006 19:06 (twenty years ago)

Btw. those who are into Strokes or Interpol or Franz Ferdinand or White Stripes or Bloc Party or Death Cab for Cutie are probably more likely to be into Joy Division or The Cure or Gang Of Four or Wire or Stooges or MC5, as they are the ones that are musically related to bands you mentioned, not Beck nor Nirvana.

And Kaiser Chiefs fans are certainly into Blur.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 5 February 2006 19:08 (twenty years ago)

i think you're right. the attention that say beck still gets is holdover, its pure pazz and jop, thirtyish plus people. what else could explain it after hearing those last couple of records!

His last album went gold a helluva a lot faster than any of his post-Odelay material and debuted at #2.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 5 February 2006 19:13 (twenty years ago)

yikes

― noizem duke (noize duke), Sunday, 5 February 2006 19:41 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, Curtis has got it. Alt-rock in the 90s was perceived as underground or "alternative" or at least new even as it worked its way up to mainstream success; at some point these bands ceased to be an alternative and became just what regular old rock fans listened to. Lots of people grew up with those bands as just the normal basis of what rock was, and it shows now in the music they make and listen to. I mean, just listen to the way mainstream rockers sing! The Vedder voice is now the most standard thing in the world (and the Staley voice, and the Weiland voice). And your local mainstream-sounding bar band probably dresses more like the "Evenflow" video than Franz Ferdinand. People grew up on this stuff, and now it's normal; they heard it called "alternative," but it was never really an alternative to them, because by the time they became rock fans it was the main kind of rock going on.

(One thing that interests me is that I see a lot of this in women, since the alt-rock moment offered a lot of models for women that seemed to inspire and stick. I know plenty of women whose band-starting ambitions have base-level role models like Courtney Love, the Breeders, and Veruca Salt, the same way my base-level notions of normal rock I like will probably always be the Smiths and Cure and such.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Sunday, 5 February 2006 20:01 (twenty years ago)

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