taking sides: BOWIE vs DYLAN

That should read: Dylan an obvious influence on Bowie's worst lyrics.

Madness reigns

Just compare their covers.

But Dylan's only a few years older isn't he?
Bowie's 1st release = 1964
Dylan's 1st release = 1961

Dylan's great, but in the final analysis I don't really buy into his rootsy, I-am-Woodie-Guthrie schtick, Bowie is more the man of the age.

I doubt Bob Dylan would agree with you

Haven't heard his cover of "God Only Knows," have you, JB?

http://homepage.mac.com/danielmartin/Dylan/images/jpg/cds/1985-EmpireBurlesque.jpg

VERSUS THIS:

http://www.illustrated-db-discography.nl/12inch/pix/NLMDUS.jpg

Dylan on the other hand seems to get richer as he ages for me: for one thing, the whole "Woody Guthrie troubadour!" accusation really only seems to pertain to pre-'67 Dylan; once you hit Blonde on Blonde, he's considerably more chameleon-like (chameleonic?) than Bowie. He gives so many different looks, and is so much harder to pin down: his sources (or "influences" if mark s isn't listening) are more disparate and harder to predict, and what he does with them is much more surprising than what Bowie does with his (i.e., for example, Aladdin Sane: "Say, I've been listening to Brecht/Weill! What if someone like say me were to try & update that whole sort of thing for the wild adrogynous seventies, that'd be somefink else eh?") (and before anybody gets real defensive about this, I love Aladdin sane to bits, but the longer you look at it, the less brainy it seems)

Having said all that, Bowie as his most pop (some of the stuff on The Lodger [or Lodger if you insist/prefer], "Sound and Vision," "Ashes to Ashes," some of the underrated post-Let's Dance singles e.g. "Blue Jean") has a weightless depth that Dylan can't really touch - Bowie's interested in dance, Dylan never has been, so Bowie wins when it comes to the physical realm of music experience: which realm is no small part of the bargain!

he had a lot more than just that schtick! rent one don't look back!

I don't know about this! I think John Wesley Harding is a pretty harrowing evisceration of a lot of the roots/authenticity tropes - certainly the only time I can think of post-Highway 61 that he invokes the guy-with-guitar-lettin'-his-voice-be-heard!!! trope is "Hurricane," which is rather more savage than what one usually means by "roots" stuff

also, Dylan's eyeliner on the Rolling Thunder tour > Bowie's eyeliner once he got into the nose candy

Yeah, tell that to Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, and the Japanese novelist from whome he wittily and shamelessly pilfered ideas.

Dylan's always been as much a poseur as Bowie, which is why Bowie's always been attracted to him.

or MORE of a poseur, probably.

yeah, jeez people are acting almost willfully ignorant of dylan on this thread.

p.s. i loves david bowie a whole bunch.

(releasing John Wesley Harding at the height of psychedelia was as shocking as Bowie cutting Young Americans after Diamond Dogs, btw)

It's most relaxing!

That's pretty bizzare. You might want to read his book or check out his radio show when it gets up and running. Or maybe listen to almost anything he's recorded since about 1978. It might surprise you.

Some of the born-again Dylan stuff, especially on Saved, is terrific--play "Solid Rock" really loud sometime if you don't believe me.

The fundamental-reinvention-of-songwriting-technique thing is something I think Dylan's done even more than Bowie. I mean, most of "Love and Theft" would've seemed VERY weird on any previous Dylan record...

I think hating Tin Machine is more a reflex than a reality. I mean, when it comes to horrid Bowie, the Glass Spider period stuff is pretty horrid.

Bowie:

1. Fake Brit R&B guy
2. Mod rocker
3. Donovan-y Hippie twit
4. Ambisexual folk crooner
5. Ziggy
6. Burroughs-style debauched Diamond Dog
7. Plastic soul Bowie
8. Coke-addled, proto-fascist Bowie/Thin White Duke
9. Dissasociative art recluse
10. Clean cut international pop star
11. 80s content-sucked shadow of himself
12. Simulated hard rocker
13. A sort of futurist goth Dirk Bogarde/Damian Hirst fusion for Outside
14. Jungle oppoutunist
15. AOR contender (...hours)
16. Fairly-normal-if-insanely-wealthy-guy-writing-terrific-pop-songs Bowie

Vs Dylan's what?

most people on this board are choosing bowie over dylan, and i reckon most are over 30, and idealise the teenage space cadet, the mindless futurism, the bright feathers and colours of the dream. Cos as serious young men and women we underrated it, and dearly wish to compensate for that now.
dylan was young when he made his great music and that old cracked voice spoke exclusively to the young, its faux ancient wisdom and prophecies heralding a time of iconoclasm. Key moment: the hysterical laughter that greets the audacity of Bob Dylan's 115th dream. Dare to mock the founding fathers! too bad the muse flew and he spent the rest of his years searching for it again. But don't under-rate him now when that voice is needed more than ever.

Bowie still wins.

But Bob's obviously got the 60s on him. 80s, let's call it a draw, or give Bob the nod if you count unreleased songs like Blind Willie McTell.

Bob crushes in the 90s, and that's before the really big guns come out with Love and Theft.

Dylan wins

So Bowie's got a new CD eh? What's that about?

Oh, he's just inventing entire new genres, brilliantly co-opting others, rocking his brains out, writing songs with about 37 chords and several key changes, none of which you notice and in general taking a massive crap on the skills of 99.9999999911999% of all songwriters on Earth.

(Yawn.) Oh. More of that, how dull. So I hear Dylan's working on a new CD.

Yeah--it's supposed to be a fairly live-spunding retro collection of moderately tuneful song about getting old.

BLOODY BRILLIANT!!!!!!!

So Bowie's got a new CD eh? What's that about?

Oh, he's just inventing entire new genres, brilliantly co-opting others, rocking his brains out, writing songs with about 37 chords and several key changes, none of which you notice and in general taking a massive crap on the skills of 99.9999999911999% of all songwriters on Earth.

(Yawn.) Oh. More of that, how dull. So I hear Dylan's working on a new CD.

Yeah--it's supposed to be a fairly live-sounding retro collection of moderately tuneful song about getting old.

BLOODY BRILLIANT!!!!!!!

Dylan a hundred times over as a writer.

So ? I guess.

"Little Wonder"

Stinky weather, Fat shaky hands
Dopey morning Doc,
Grumpy gnomes
Little wonder then, little wonder
You little wonder,
little wonder you
Big screen dolls,
tits and explosions
Sleepytime, Bashful but nude
Little wonder then, little wonder
You little wonder,
little wonder you
I'm getting it

Intergalactic, see me to be you
It's all in the tablets,
Sneezy Bhutan
Little wonder then, little wonder
You little wonder,
little wonder you
Mars happy nation,
sit on my karma
Dame meditation, take me away
Little wonder then,
little wonder
You little wonder,
little wonder you

[CHORUS]
Sending me so far away, so far away
So far away, so far away
So far away, so so far away
So far away, so far away
So far away, so so far away

Little wonder
You little wonder, you
Little wonder
You little wonder you

And here's Dylan:

"Mississippi"

Every step of the way we walk the line
Your days are numbered, so are mine
Time is pilin' up, we struggle and we scrape
We're all boxed in, nowhere to escape

City's just a jungle, more games to play
Trapped in the heart of it, trying to get away
I was raised in the country, I been workin' in the town
I been in trouble ever since I set my suitcase down

Got nothing for you, I had nothing before
Don't even have anything for myself anymore
Sky full of fire, pain pourin' down
Nothing you can sell me, I'll see you around

All my powers of expression and thoughts so sublime
Could never do you justice in reason or rhyme
Only one thing I did wrong
Stayed in Mississippi a day too long

Well, the devil's in the alley, mule's in the stall
Say anything you wanna, I have heard it all
I was thinkin' about the things that Rosie said
I was dreaming I was sleeping in Rosie's bed

Walking through the leaves, falling from the trees
Feeling like a stranger nobody sees
So many things that we never will undo
I know you're sorry, I'm sorry too

Some people will offer you their hand and some won't
Last night I knew you, tonight I don't
I need somethin' strong to distract my mind
I'm gonna look at you 'til my eyes go blind

Well I got here following the southern star
I crossed that river just to be where you are
Only one thing I did wrong
Stayed in Mississippi a day too long

Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drownin' in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothin' but affection for all those who've sailed with me

Everybody movin' if they ain't already there
Everybody got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now

My clothes are wet, tight on my skin
Not as tight as the corner that I painted myself in
I know that fortune is waitin' to be kind
So give me your hand and say you'll be mine

Well, the emptiness is endless, cold as the clay
You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way
Only one thing I did wrong
Stayed in Mississippi a day too long

Dylan is quite obviously a better lyricist, even his Jesus songs beat Bowie's best, but lyrics are only half the game

And in the 00s, Bowie has been constantly way better than anything on "Love Theft".

Bowie wins, with Dylan being the 60s champion among them (and hadn't it been for "Scary Monsters" I'd say "Infidels" and "Oh Mercy" made Bowie the obvious 80s winner among them too)

now you are talkingn crazy, Love & Theft is outstanding

maybe we should switch the thread tittle to "bob dylan" vs. "david bowie"?

i guess what i was starting to push at when i started this update was wondering about the effect of an artist completely subsuming themselves as a fabrication; wondering why/how some people can pull this off, and create an artist/persona which is as much, if not more so, art than their output. this also brings in how the public reaction is almost necessary in creating this "artist". itsa very strage participatory process of creation.