Is NME paralysed by suffering from middle-class, English white-boy guilt ?

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NME has a traditional simmering resentment of bands made up of fellow university-educated whiteys playing guitar pop in a British lineage the writers dearly wish they could leave behind. How did it come to pass that this developed into the present-day fatwa against any band/artist not either from the US, black or from a background sufficiently deprived to project the writers' simulated-background onto ? Why is it that:

1.(for example) Belle and Sebastian have gone from being a lauded and relevant band into being worthy of mention only in snortingly derisive twee terms ?

2. the writers' attitude to its own readers, always loaded with a sneering attitude of "you ought to like this but you all like that, you uneducated ignorant cod-racists" has become little more than just that - readers are made to think that if they like Mull Historical Society ahead of Missy Elliot or such innovative titans as BRMC, they are luddites unable to see beyond their indie-kid noses.

So tell me ?

Darren, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If this is about the Coldplay thread, I suggest you go back and actually READ what I posted.

Ronan, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Belle and Sebastian have gone from being a lauded and relevant band into being worthy of mention only in snortingly derisive twee terms

Yes, but this was recently proven by science.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't know really if NME is as said above. But I do know that hearing NME getting criticised constantly and for the same things is as annoying as reading the damn thing ever was

Ronan, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think that the NME always has to keep a certain distance from its readers in order to market itself and sell papers. Some naive kid who wants to know what cool bands there are proabably responds more to this patronising tone and thinks of him/herself as inferior to the writer and wants to belong to the club, the elite. So it periodically drags out genres that the typical indie kid is unlikely to have heard much of and berates them for being so parochial. Of course to an extent they are, but so are people who listen to other genres of music. I mean, why would the writer want to identify with the kids, that would probably make the NME into a zine or something. The racism ephithet is particularly effective.

Anas FK, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I stopped reading NME a while ago, as I got sick of it virtually ignoring what seemed to me to be most of the exciting and fresh music around in favour of repeatedly trying to convince me that the likes of Embrace and the Stereophonics were great acts. If it's now boosting Missy Elliott and laughing at Belle And Sebastian it's clearly improved. I regard this as a recommendation for the mag.

Martin Skidmore, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I tried to read NME. It was awful, not because of the music covered, but really because of the sneering tone in the writing. One article ws following a group, getting drunk, smashing bottles in the stret. They seemed to think it was funnny Marilyn manson leaving a "present.." It was hooliganism, and the real cause of my question about Coldplay. Why is moronic behaviour approved of and clever, careful, thoughtful music so disproved of? its self hatred and it only happpens in England. And that is why the criminal justice system is being criticised now-hooligan behaviuor goes unpunished, and is seen as cool by stupid untalented writers, who need to shock. BAH!

liliya, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Why is moronic behaviour approved of and clever, careful, thoughtful music so disproved of? its self hatred and it only happpens in England.

Oh, it happens here in America too, Liliya, trust me! The general standpoint being that 'dangerous' music provides a touch of excitement, of supposedly being 'raw and real,' etc., and that those who play such music should act accordingly. The flipside is all the complaints about 'that wimpy shit.' What's 'raw' and what's 'wimpy' changes over time, though -- a dialectic that inhabits new forms as music itself changes, as new styles come to the fore.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like aggressive raw music too-its in context. For exapmple, I'm listening to Iggy Pop-"Dirt", great spacy sound with scary vocals, but Iggy knows how to behave-its not moronic, its clever, contrived,and intelligent. But NME seems to promote ugliness and stupidity, which is against evertything music should be. By the way, before I heard this song, I thought Joy Division had created new sound-now I know they stole everything from Iggy! But if you read NME, you can know nothing, learn nothing...I prefer Freaky T!

liliya, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

There ya go! :-) And yup, Joy D loved Iggy very openly -- Ian Curtis was listening to The Idiot when he killed himself.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think Darren's onto something. There's some chick named Robin Carmody who posts on here from time to time that simply reeks of that "whiny guilty whitey" thing thaat you're ranting about.

Fritz

Fritz lager, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Now the question is whether knowing that Robin is in fact a guy change your attitude or not, it seems.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Every time this topic appears on ILM someone has to come up with a variation of "Oh, I'd rather listen to Steps than the Stereophonics".

I just don't get the nature of the argument. We can all pick a great artist from one genre then a bad one from another. What does it prove?

Yes, I'd rather listen to Steps than the S'phonics. I'd also much rather listen to Migala or The High Llamas than Westlife. I can imagine what kind of reception I'd get on ILM if I tried to present the latter as some kind of conclusive evidence that indie is better than pop per se.

Dan, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Darren--That patronizing attitude is more likely to be found in Q magazine rather than NME.

MICHELINE, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

bah ned you are such a genital essentialist

mark s, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I weep in shame at my rose-colored biological glasses.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i read the nme beacause its funny. like watching a british comedy.

chaki, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I laughed pretty hard at this line in the NME review of Alanis Morissette's new album, which is entitled Under Rug Swept: "When you're a creative spirit, yearning and striving to be healed and empowered through life experience, syntax is obviously just another sign of repression."

I also see where they pronounce Death Cab For Cutie's "debut" to be "angular"!

Curt, Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think what Fritz means is that I sometimes refer back to my cultural background in a way that acknowledges its importance and also its vast difference from what I'm trying to do now. But don't we all do that, sometimes?

p.s. yes I am neurotic, I've rarely been worse

Robin Carmody, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The NME provides news about albums and singles that are coming out.

In doing so it tries desparately to make that news into 52 different scenes per year in some sort of quasi-Bangs/Thompson attitude. Nobody has a clue anymore because music is too old and too confusing to write about conclusively and with any great authority.

Music is - on the whole - rubbish and only a few brights lights make pursuing it worth while. Dust down your Ivor Cutler and fuck fashion!

Sonicred, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Amen to that.

Snotty Moore, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Not sure, but I am. Except I'm not English. I'm not a boy, either. I'm at least part white and I'm probably guilty. -jeff

mxyzptlk, Tuesday, 12 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the fritz that posted earlier isn't me, by the way.

fritz, Tuesday, 12 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

NME hasn't been worth reading since the Jeffrey Lee Pierce cover story in '83.

dan, Tuesday, 12 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

seven months pass...
Ugh. Just to reaffirm this old thread, here's their review of the new Badly Drawn Boy single (which I think is an amazing bit of pop magic). They couldn't even be arsed to get the name of the album correct.

http://www.nme.com/reviews/10949.htm

My BIGGEST complaint about NME, and this is coming from an outsider in the U.S., is that they are so much more concerned with retaining their ability to dictate taste in the U.K. as they are about good journalism (defined as an objective stance and reporting). Other than perhaps Rolling Stone (which is equally shitty), at least most crummy music mags make no pretenses about their status as tastemakers. So, you get them on these stupid bandwagons where music has to fit in perfectly with what they believe to be the IT bandwagon of the nanosecond. I just know that if I were still 14 or 15 and I lived in the U.K., I'd be blinded to a lot of good music because the NME sez it's not in vogue at the moment, and that's the real tragedy. (rant mode off)

Aaron W., Monday, 14 October 2002 16:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I hope Darren likes the new-direction NME more now!

Tom (Groke), Monday, 14 October 2002 18:25 (twenty-three years ago)

i write occassionally for the nme and i am neither middle class nor have shown symptons of white-boy guilt? hope that helps...

doom-e, Monday, 14 October 2002 18:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Personally I wouldn't say that the paper suffers from white boy guilt... just shitty journalism.

I had a friend who used to freelance a bit for NME as well... they would add the word "brilliant" several times to every review he wrote. I bet they have a hyperbole matrix they use (1 word of hyperbole in the form of adjective or adverb for every 9 "regular" words).

Aaron W., Monday, 14 October 2002 18:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Personally I wouldn't say that the paper suffers from white boy guilt... just shitty journalism.

nah - personally i like pat long's writing and well, my own!

doom-e, Monday, 14 October 2002 21:14 (twenty-three years ago)

i beat my NME habit for good this year, for good, finally...i'd been pretty clean for the last few years anyway, only succumbing at the time of glasto or reading and the inevitable christmas period. you have to take these things one day at a time of course, and i now it will be hard at Christmas when that 167 page end of year special looms large on the shelf of the nearest WH Smith...but i must be strong...

blueski, Monday, 14 October 2002 22:11 (twenty-three years ago)

blueski- you sound like you're addicted to junk!

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 08:59 (twenty-three years ago)

i get the chrimbo/end-of-year editions of most mags. it's the one time of year i bother. i love it.

michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:23 (twenty-three years ago)

i love it = buying end of year mags, not the nme - it's shit.

michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 10:24 (twenty-three years ago)

"NME has a traditional simmering resentment of bands made up of fellow university-educated whiteys playing guitar pop in a British lineage the writers dearly wish they could leave behind"

No it doesn't - it loves them. Any "simmering resentment" comes out after acres of praise and is probably rooted in the fact that large indie bands sell the most papers even though they're mostly really fucking dull. They own NME's "ass" and they still get way more than their fair share of coverage and hype.

A more charitable view would be that writers who wade through so much indie sludge on a daily basis might reasonably get frustrated with readers' "know what I like" attitudes and want to push more interesting music to the fore. The one welcome development in NME-land over the last few years has been its attempt to push Hip Hop, R&B and electronic"a" to the fore. It's just a shame it's done so with haiku-length reviews and features written in the style of a sulky 13-yr-old boy from Twickenham. Most of which contain the editorially-imposed phrase "punk as fuck" (y'know, to explain Electroclash to people born in 1985).

I've recently stopped buying NME for the first time in 11 years, mainly because there's not much of it left - it's more of a tip-sheet than something you actually *read* now. There must be less than half the word count of an NME from 10 years ago, and they blow most of that by printing four pages of emails from people who saw the fire at the Leeds festival, or by taking up half the issue with news stories you can get free on their site. Plus there's a palpable fear of writing anything intelligent or analytical in case it puts off the imagined "young people" (who are obviously all stupid and would never think of pop music as being important enough for that kind of thing anyway). It's kind of creepy and embarassing.

Leo Lonergan (Leo), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 11:39 (twenty-three years ago)

The one welcome development in NME-land over the last few years has been its attempt to push Hip Hop, R&B and electronic"a" to the fore.

Like its legendary "hip-hop issue" from a few years back? That was when it truly jumped the shark, when it started assuming that its target audience wouldn't actually know who Nas was.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 12:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, I'd forgotten that one. I've been pretty charitable there haven't I?

Leo Lonergan (Leo), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 20:23 (twenty-three years ago)

just wondering who were the luminaries at NME in the late 80s that chose Public Enemy and De La Soul as the albums of the year...and what sort of reaction this got at the time - mass derision at not opting for 'The Stone Roses' or 'Doolittle'? NME certainly embraced grunge and then britpop in the 90s but i'd like to see some issues from 1989 and 1990 to see its attitude to hip hop and dance...Record Mirror was always very supportive of the two at least

blueski, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 10:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I was a reader at the time and I don't recall any sense of outrage or derision in the letters pages, and I didnt feel it. It was pretty obvious what was happening - everyone on the paper thought they ought to put a hip-hop album in and it was generally the same one. The NME in 1988-90 was underrated I think - people love the Melody Maker from that time and it was better written and more visionary I suppose, but the NME had no problems with promoting dance music and hip-hop even if they didnt put it on the cover much. Almost every issue had some E-culture proselytising by Jack Barron or Helen Mead and I remember big 10-out-of-10 reviews for a lot of hip-hop, and hip-hop albums being taken very seriously. It was a good, open-minded time and I don't mind saying I learned a lot as a reader.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 11:06 (twenty-three years ago)

thats good to know...for as long as i read NME they were very supportive of hip hop and i was actually a bit suspicious when 'Illmatic' and 'Only Built For Cuban Lynx' figured as high as they did in their EOYPs - it striked me as tokenism but having never listened to either i shouldnt really comment.

blueski, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 11:13 (twenty-three years ago)

This chimes with that interesting NME thread Tim linked to (which I never read cos I was fighting goats in Greece or something I assume) - Danny Kelly liked hip-hop and dance so under his editorship they were covered enthusiastically but not promoted on the cover or whatever. Steve Sutherland and successors basically didn't like them.

I think it was tokenism but tokenism defined by the end-of-year-poll format as much as anything else.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 11:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Danny Kelly = the John Major of NME culture, with a single arse riding the twin saddles of indie/hip hop! Like the Tory party, this constituency is now splintered irretrievably = you would get a sore arse if you tried to ride it again.

(PE and De La Soul are no big surprise as NME vote winners as they define two ways hiphop was received by indiekidkultur in the 80s... as THE NEW PUNK and as THE NEW BEATNIK)

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 11:32 (twenty-three years ago)

To be fair if a single arse was to straddle such wide saddles Danny Kelly's would be the obvious choice.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 11:34 (twenty-three years ago)

"Danny Kelly = the John Major of NME culture"

Are you hinting that he may have been scretly knocking off Julie Birchill on the side all the time?

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 11:54 (twenty-three years ago)

also: his pathetic successor Sutherland is bald, cf Hague and IDS

robin carmody (robin carmody), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:45 (twenty-three years ago)

So this would make Kerrang New Labour?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 17 October 2002 09:26 (twenty-three years ago)

And would that make Uncut Socialist Labour. Or would that be The Wire. CTCL = Liberals?

flowersdie (flowersdie), Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:14 (twenty-three years ago)

They have a former Muzik editor in charge now do they not? Any chance of a radical change?

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:29 (twenty-three years ago)

unfortunately not Ronan. It's gone even more GARAGE RAWK/ SCRUFFY NO HOPER TRAD GUITAR CRAP.

DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think I've written a better "condensed review" than the So Solid Crew piece I did for CTCL. somehow when I actually read the thing I could see that it wasn't the sort of magazine that would want me as one of their "star writers", though. too much attitude, not enough ideas.

robin carmody (robin carmody), Thursday, 17 October 2002 23:35 (twenty-three years ago)


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