Birmingham: so much to answer for

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Birmingham is like the UK's second biggest city, yet its musical heritage seems a bit ass. Can Broadcast really be its best band ever?

No Black Country ringers.

― N., Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Pram. L'Augmentation. Plone. Novak. Bearos Records (I don't like a lot of the stuff Alan puts out but there again, a lot of it is great and the whole ethos and feel is fantastic).

And did you know that Birmingham has a law whereby it's illegal for a band to play without at least one member sitting on the floor?

― emil.y, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That explains everything.

― N., Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Come now, N., are you overlooking Duran Duran?

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, because I think they are pretty shit. Come on, I must be overlooking someone. I mean I like Plone and all but..

― N., Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

um.

too lazy to double check this, buuuuut, aren't black sabbaf, ELO, the move, the hollies and the moody blues all brummies?

not cool, p'raps. but i likes 'em, in places.

― stevie, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

fer fuxake nick! Black Sabbath, The Move, Steel Pulse, Dave Swarbrick & Dave Pegg, Carl Palmer & Traffic are all from Birmingham. As well as Broadcast, who are great....~~~

― Norman Phay, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But all those bands are awful, except for Broadcast, and they were in my original question. I accept that Black Sabbath are big and important in some way, but metal's not really my thing and I'm not going down some ironic appreciation route. I suppose I could give Traffic a listen. What I heard on the Robert Elms show put me off though.

C'mon - it's a FUCKING HUGE CITY. Think how many fucking ace Manchester, Liverpool or Glasgow acts you could name and compare and contrast. It's just weird. I've never been there, either. Not that I'm suggesting the two facts are connected.

― N., Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

[The Hollies are from Manchester, btw]

― N., Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Come on then, Nick, you must go to Brum and HEAL THE CITY. I'm not entirely convinced by this because a)I like all the bands I mentioned a lot, and b)I can't think of many more bands from Manchester or Liverpool that I like either (Glasgow fares a little better, I think).

― emil.y, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

A sorry list

EXCEPT FOR (and I knew I was forgetting someone) - Dexy's Midnight Runners.

― N., Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

A MILLION people live there. That's four times the size of Birmingham, Alabama. TWICE the size of Liverpool.

― N., Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Felt, Denim, Go-Kart Mozart... nuff ambition for a whole city!

― Paul, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Fuck, OK. But that's IT. [this is turning into a 'What have the Brummies ever done for us'?]

― N., Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Nick, you're forgetting We've Got A Fuzzbox And We're Gonna Use It, Ted Chippington, The Nightingales (I think), Macka B, Whoever did Car 67 Where Are You, Renée and Renata, Napalm Death. Possibly Racey.

― PM, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

cov's not far, is it? so you've got yer specials right there, enough to make any city proud...

― stevie, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

the (english) beat, of course.

― dbini, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Surely it must be UB40... actually, weren't the Wonderstuff from the land of Brum?

― Alex G, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

weren't Pop Will Eat Itself and/or Ocean Colour Scene from the Brum 'hood?

in which case yes, Broadcast and Pram = the fair city's best bands. Stereolab also-rans a-go-go.

― petra jane, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

do not forget the Downwards Records crew. Regis, Surgeon et all.

― mt, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Mid-eighties Midlands Today faves Swansway. Going back to the reasons for this dearth of talent, it's often said that Liverpool was so fantastic in the old days because it was a port city and sailors would come back with an armful of blues 78s, thus influencing a generation. Well, Birmingham isn't a port, although it does have an extensive canal system, much of which has been recently renovated. You can walk to Wolverhampton along the canal. Lawrence from Denim refers to the Rum Runner clan or crew or something, which I think means Duran Duran and their mates. Does this mean there was a whole scene revolving around Duran Duran? Who were these scenesters? Were there loads of new romantic bands in Brum?

― PM, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You're all cheating now with your Stourbridge and Coventry talk. Not that any of the bands from Stourbridge are any good either.

― N., Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The most important person in pop music right now, Mike Skinner aka The Streets, is a Brummie. I rest my case.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

For some reason I thought he was from Coventry. He was part of the reason I got thinking about this again. You're right.

Let me make something clear - I do actually like the absence of a history of a 'Birmingham scene'. I think it's an interesting thing, specifically as a counterpoint to the situations that have prevailed at various times in Glasgow,Manchester and Liverpool. I think it makes for some intriguingly unique talents when they do pop up (Dexy's, Felt, The Streets). I wonder what it is about Birmingham that has made it like this. Lack of civic pride/tribalism among the young?

― N., Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I wish I knew. My school friends and I spent many hours wondering this ourselves. We never found a reason, just cursed the fact we were so far from a place with vibrant current scene/ musical history.

Perhaps because it is so big - all the decent stuff is in the city centre and the people are not. At least while I was there, the West Midlands didn't have the best night time transport links.

Also lacked a decent mid-sized gig venue for ages. Aston Villa lesuire centre was impossible to get to. Wolverhampton Civic Hall got most of the tours, which was great if, like me you lived in Wolverhampton or on the west of Birmingham, but a bit of a pain if you lived elsewhere in the midlands.

― Anna, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

all those unique talents etc are trumped by one word spotted on that list though, and that word is:

BIRDLAND!

Oh sweet jesus, they were awful, and I saw them.... twice.

― chris, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

And nobody mentioned the Sea Urchins, or Delta who they turned into.

And I wonder why. 8-(

― Rob M, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

no, chris, no! sweet jesus were ace! i never saw them live though, but we did stay at one of the members house once though. i don't know who, margareet knew one of them or something, i didn't know margareet either though. tenuous, moi?

― gareth, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Is it me or is The Streets album the nearest thing to the Specials in twenty years? And he could only be talking about one city... Birdland were from Cov, ditto the Primitives. One of Delta is the son of Louis Clark, inventor of 'Classic Rock' (i.e. rock songs performed by orchestras. 'Hooked on Classics' was a good title, but 'Hooked On Heroin' would have been even better)

― Snotty Moore, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I second (third? fourth?) The Streets.

Dastoor is too quick to mock. "Fire Brigade" is great, as is "Question" (well, at least the fast bits are). Swarbrick and Pegg have played on some fantastic records.

"we ... just cursed the fact we were so far from a place with vibrant current scene / musical history" sez Anna. I wouldn't curse that, I'd be proud: the less you have in your past, the more you can feel confident to create today IMHO. I know I wouldn't want the Beatles Sceptre surrounding me: the absence of such a thing in Brum at least ensured it didn't come up with the La's or the Real People, surely?

― Robin Carmody, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

definitely a tie: napalm death and elo.

― fields of salmon, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Well yeah, but Robin, she did say "vibrant current scene / musical history". Maybe she should have got off her ARSE and done something about it, eh?

― N., Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I have no musical talent what so ever. I would love to be a cool and magnetic frontwoman type, but I CANNOT sing. (I also now live in London).

Blessed Ethel were from Malvern, but I am clutching at straws in many ways now.

― Anna, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Just out of interest how many of you are actually from birmingham? I totally agree with crap venue/transport/city centre argument, brum is oddly divided into little sections eg moseley etc that don't seem to have much bearing on one another, check out the following for a view of what IS hapenning: www.birminghammusicscene.co.uk www.capsule.org.uk www.earko.com www.atomic-jam.co.uk www.flashback96.com www.prosession.co.uk Oh and just to add what about Higher Intelligence Agency, Beyond records, Oscillate etc etc

― el wanko, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Especially because Malvern stands to Birmingham as Tonbridge stands to London.

― Robin Carmody, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"little sections that don't seem to have much bearing on one another"

Even more true in London, but so much media and so much publicity is centralised there that Different Rules Apply, unfortunately.

― Robin Carmody, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

four months pass...

yes it may be yet no it may not be-----Duran's lineage is more striking and that is all important in popular music. come on now. Our little warholian age is stuck with it all innit. kiss kiss

― david hall, Tuesday, 30 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Never saw this great thread till now.

I like some of the Coventry bands mentioned, esp. Primitives. But that !=Birmingham as N said. Ditto Stourbridge? Or can Bham have the Wonder Stuff?

I think N was right all along. No-one on the thread named a really good Bham band save Duran Duran - whom I like a lot but who don't do enough to prove N wrong.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 30 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Nonononono! Woodbine! Though, at a guess, he doesn't like them either.

I have thoughts on the music scene in Birmingham. Will post later.

― Mr Swygart, Tuesday, 30 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm a Brummie now living int he USA, and I always thought the train was the problem. Only 90 mins to London, so nearly eveyrone with talent moves there soon as they can (musicians, designers, club types, entrepreneurs.) Not that the national media ever bothers to take the 90 minute trip the other way.

Author of "Oi, Ref!" and "England All Over"

― Joseph Gallivan, Monday, 12 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

How could I have forgotten Miles Davis??

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

and dre.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Nana Mouskouri, obviously. And Miriam Makeba. Not to mention Bob Marley

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

nice work mike taylor for mentioning surgeon

― robin (robin), Thursday, 23 October 2003 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

The Lilac Time!

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 23 October 2003 03:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the main cultural distinction which marks Birmingham out from other big UK cities is its lack of 'cockyness' and its tendency towards self-depracation. Compare and contrast Manchester in particular. This gives rise to two typical forms of musical product, one good and one bad:

a. Relatively mindless pub rock and grubby metal - the acme of anti-pretentiousness. Perhaps even more dominant as a form in Wolverhampton and the black country. Let's mention Steve Gibbons, Sabbath, Judas Priest, PWEI, Wonder Stuff

b. Slightly off the wall reflective material in a totally different and distinctive form from that produced elsewhere. Think, in particular, of Lilac Time, Felt/Denim/Go-Kart Mozart, Dexy's (esp. Don't Stand Me Down)

― Andy Walsh, Thursday, 23 October 2003 10:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Roy Wood/ Jeff Lynne - and thus Move/ Idle Race/ ELO. Not bad really

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 October 2003 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

... oh forgot Wizzard!!!!!!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 October 2003 10:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Fashion!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 23 October 2003 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Deffo The Nightingales, Fuzzbox and Ted (At least I've still got the truck) Chippington. Then there's the likes of FYC and UB40, and the late Rob Palmer. Steel Pulse, yes, but let's leave 2-Tone in Cov, because that's it's homeland. Stuffies, no, they were Stourbridge, and I always thought PWEI were from farther afield, although their 'Unspoilt By...'logo is a blatant rip from Banks's beautiful beer brewed in Wolves. ELO et al were masters of their time, if you like that kind of thing, but I have it on authority that Brum is still a lively place to go. Used to be a band called Reducer that did benefits for TOPYHeart at The Hare & Hounds, so there was a radically alternative fringe in the early 90s. Brum is a funny mish-mashy kind of place, but it's had far more bands than Plymouth, we only ever had The Betterdays get in the charts. (Don't ask!).

― Rob Wosley (Rob Wosley), Thursday, 23 October 2003 11:37 (twenty-two years ago)

No Birmingham thread can be complete without a mention of Roy Wood's "Dear Elaine". So here it is.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Thursday, 23 October 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Birmingham is on the whole a bit rubbish if you want to be doing musical things, but having just got back from a Dexy's gig (in Wolverhampton, ha), I'm convinced that they are Enough.

― Ferg (Ferg), Thursday, 23 October 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Something like 90% of bhangra music is made in B'ham. It's very central to the Asian music scene, I've heard. I'm from Rugby, so I know B'ham and Cov reasonably well. Cov is quite possibly the shittest city in the UK, but I feel a strange sort of affection for it now I'm hundreds of miles away. This thread makes me homesick.

― Cathy (Cathy), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Cathy, you're back! Or you've posted more recently and I've missed it or something. Where are you now that you're not in Rugby?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 26 October 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Hello Ned. I'm at university in Glasgow now (choosing a university based almost entirely on where your favourite bands come from: C/D?).

― Cathy (Cathy), Sunday, 26 October 2003 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Dud if it's Olympia, I'm thinking, but Glasgow always seemed cool to me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 26 October 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Good grief, more Glasgow people. Classic, btw, unless your favourite band is Blur.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 26 October 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh are the Au Pairs as well.

― Ferg (Ferg), Sunday, 26 October 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

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