ILM's YSI Problem

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Now, I like a good track as much as anyone, and I've recently downloaded a whole-album YSI from the Alice Coltrane thread, so I'm not immune to this. However, does it seem to anyone else that on every new thread about an album, the first post is someone begging for a YSI of it? Where's the fun in that? It strikes me as a little pathetic and also in a lot of cases detracts from the actual discussion that might otherwise come out of these threads. Not sure there's anything to do about it, just that it's annoying enough to me to want to mention it.

― mcd (mcd), Friday, 24 February 2006 15:22 (twenty years ago)

so this zeigeist thing, it's not in any shops -- could anyone...

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Friday, 24 February 2006 15:24 (twenty years ago)

I suppose I asked for that.

― mcd (mcd), Friday, 24 February 2006 15:36 (twenty years ago)

Mo, mcd, I agree. This is supposed to be a discussion forum, not Bittorrent or something.

Bah, the youth of today!

― Neil Stewart (Neil Stewart), Friday, 24 February 2006 15:38 (twenty years ago)

Er, that should be a "No" above!

― Neil Stewart (Neil Stewart), Friday, 24 February 2006 15:38 (twenty years ago)

http://www.bpfallon.com/photo_2/mo_mag.jpg
Oh, OK.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 24 February 2006 15:42 (twenty years ago)

mind you.... its hard to discuss music if you havent heard it. seeing as lots of stuff on ILX is about things that havent come out yet, or are pretty opbscure, its common that the stuff being discussed hasnt been heard by those that a) want to hear it and then b) want to discuss it having heard it. i htink YSI links can be helpful in debates for sintance all those ones where vahid was arguing about deep house or something, he could provide exmaples of what he was trying to describe. i guess begging for the links is another matter tho...

― ambrose (ambrose), Friday, 24 February 2006 15:42 (twenty years ago)

Well, like that FF one, one track was nice.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 24 February 2006 15:47 (twenty years ago)

Nah, I don't mind tracks as a means for discussion, that makes sense, but it's just what I perceive to be this aggressive nature of getting every fucking thing, and pronto.

― mcd (mcd), Friday, 24 February 2006 15:56 (twenty years ago)

mcd is otm.

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Friday, 24 February 2006 16:09 (twenty years ago)

would a policy of delisting these threads from searches help? maybe some kind of time out for repeat offenders (the ones trying to get the whole album)? I agree that it's irritating and doesn't contribute to the site's purpose.

― patita (patita), Friday, 24 February 2006 16:40 (twenty years ago)

This requesting, can you YSI it? I really want to get it but can't spend the money.

(Yeah, it's more annoying when it seems like someone who's never said anything on ILM before too...)

― js (honestengine), Friday, 24 February 2006 16:48 (twenty years ago)

mods have been locking or deleting threads like this in the last week, eg the liars ones. which is nice.

asking for whole albums before they're released is also lame. out of print stuff is one thing, but you know, let them release it first!

― destroye's noobies (haitch), Friday, 24 February 2006 16:53 (twenty years ago)

i think the ysi requests can be easily ignored, as annoying and counterproductive to dialogue as they are. it's the random ysi requests threads that pop up like OMG Liars new album YSI pls that could be easily prevented by denying non-registered users the access to start a new thread.

it may seem like a drastic measure, but what will we be losing? Mean spirited or joke troll threads by logged out users, last minute help-me-with-my-paper requests, and ysi reqs from random googlers. Good riddance.

also, i realize this idea has been brought up quite a few times on mod request, but I haven't heard any criticism or acknowledgement of it.

― midi sanskrit (sanskrit), Friday, 24 February 2006 17:17 (twenty years ago)

there is so much stuff available online in many different formats and avenues..all u have to do is look a lil harder to find it before requesting it from an underpaid journalist who probably has some deluxe macaroni and cheese overcooking in th toaster oven that is way more important to attend to...th hunt is often as sweet as th download..cept for joel hes always a lil sour

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Friday, 24 February 2006 17:31 (twenty years ago)

I enjoy mean-spirited or joke troll threads by logged out users. A better answer would be to delete anything that looks wArEz-eSqUe as soon as it starts.

― Abu Hamster (noodle vague), Friday, 24 February 2006 17:40 (twenty years ago)

But I mean as ever your best bet is just to ignore that shit.

― Abu Hamster (noodle vague), Friday, 24 February 2006 17:40 (twenty years ago)

Obviously this has already been said, but talking about something can be difficult with no knowledge of what's actually being talked about, but YSIs of whole albums on the whole (see what I did there?) is a bad idea—apart from the killing-discussion angle, it could well land ILX in a lot of trouble legally.

I think the best approach is the one or two tracks, used to get the discussion going in appropriate cases. Although that said, I do love picking up the b-sides and remixes from the YSI threads.

― tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 24 February 2006 17:42 (twenty years ago)

How did anybody ever discuss anythink before YSI started?

― Abu Hamster (noodle vague), Friday, 24 February 2006 17:44 (twenty years ago)

They knew the records. I think that used, er—benevolently—YSIs are a good waay of opening up the discussion to those that don't.

― tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Friday, 24 February 2006 17:49 (twenty years ago)

haha, i've been posting to ilm on and off since 2000, and i remember how much money i would lose through reading ilm threads...i would run to the record store immediately after reading a particularly great thread, and buy whatever was being discussed, if i didn't already have it. i discovered some really amazing records that way.

what bothers me isn't the ysi's, necessarily; it's that discussion on ilm threads these days seems to taper off after the ysi. if anything, discussion should INCREASE after people hear the record, not decrease!

― geeta (geeta), Friday, 24 February 2006 17:52 (twenty years ago)

It's not like I'm not a downloading fiend. But aksing is soooooo unclassy.

― Abu Hamster (noodle vague), Friday, 24 February 2006 17:55 (twenty years ago)

what bothers me most about the ysi phenom on ilm is the idea that people have a right to stealing other people's music, as evidence by the shocked and appalled reaction when their little playground was stripped of them.

― ham'ron (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 February 2006 18:20 (twenty years ago)

i luv u dan bunnybrane.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 24 February 2006 18:23 (twenty years ago)

xpost

Yeah, that sense of entitlement is nauseating, innit? When Oink went down the other month the acrimony on here was high-larious.

― Abu Hamster (noodle vague), Friday, 24 February 2006 18:25 (twenty years ago)

if anything, discussion should INCREASE after people hear the record, not decrease!

for sure. pre-ysi discussion would be:
a: i really want to hear the blahblahblas, what are they like?
b: they sound like this and that and they remind me of this one time when i got super-high
c: they don't sound like this and that! you're an idiot!
a: wow, sounds cool!
etc.

post-ysi:
a: i really want to hear the blahblahblas, what are they like?
b: they sound like this (ysi)
a: oh.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 24 February 2006 18:25 (twenty years ago)

yeah, exactly, it's the sense of entitlement. (the phrase was eluding me.) i download. illegally. though less so than in the past. (mostly, because, yeah, i get promos and shit and i have more spending money these days.) but if slsk disappeared tomorrow i wouldn't feel like i was being denied my civil rights.

― ham'ron (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 February 2006 18:28 (twenty years ago)

A good chunk of ILM it seems isn't remotely interested in discussion, they just want to hear new music, and bully for them. It'd be all right if they had their own board, but it seems people who do discuss things also have a lot of interesting records on their hard drives.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 24 February 2006 18:29 (twenty years ago)

A good chunk of ILM it seems isn't remotely interested in discussion,
I think a good chunk of those people recently discovered ILM through ysi threads. The people who have been involved in the discussions all along haven't changed their mindsets.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Friday, 24 February 2006 18:46 (twenty years ago)

another problem is when someone who gets the album on promo or soulseek starts a discussion, then complains because nobody else, or very few people, joins the discussion. well, you can't really comment if you haven't heard it, can you? therefore, YSI, please. if you want to curb this phenomenon, make people wait until release date to discuss the album. otherwise, the floodgates have opened and there's no turning back.

― biz, Friday, 24 February 2006 19:11 (twenty years ago)

Are there really that many new posters since YSI became a ubiquitous phenomenon? I can't say I've noticed a massive increase and I think I've been lurking/posting here for about a year and a half now.

I'm pretty sure YSI hadn't been noticed/used by everyone back then like it almost certainly has been now.

― YSI life plz? (fandango), Friday, 24 February 2006 19:21 (twenty years ago)

I think there are a lot more people passing through, but I'm not sure whether it should be called "posting" when 50% of those posts are ysi requests (yes, I'm probably exaggerating).

Biz, once the discussion started, everyone would rush to slsk or wherever and look for the music for themselves. There'd be a lot of threads where the discussion trickled along, then exploded once everyone returned after hearing the whole leak. These "delayed" discussions are tolerated less now -- I think people get more frustrated unless there's instant ysi gratification.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Friday, 24 February 2006 19:38 (twenty years ago)

I think it is annoying a bit too. But I guess it comes from people that don't know better (or don't care) and won't be reading this thread.

― gspm (gspm), Friday, 24 February 2006 19:42 (twenty years ago)

It says YSI in the title - they'll be reading.

― Abu Hamster (noodle vague), Friday, 24 February 2006 19:44 (twenty years ago)

Sure they will, the thread title has the word "YSI" in it

d'oh! Great minds, etc

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Friday, 24 February 2006 19:47 (twenty years ago)

jess is on the fucking money - and whoever said the "entitlement thing - and mcd - are all on the fucking money...this whole thing is annoying as hell......i'd also add that it's the sense of entitlement PLUS this self-righteous idea that by say downloading the new Yeah Yeah Yeahs record and Lazy Sunday, peolple think that they're someone contributing to some great "revolution" or some such shit.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:21 (twenty years ago)

~~napster~~ ~~podcasting~~ ~~urge~~ ysi is the future of the music industry!!

― ham'ron (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:26 (twenty years ago)

uh, i like to hear records before i buy them. the radio serves that function for a lot of shitty music, and YSI/soulseek/etc serve that function for everything else.

― Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:27 (twenty years ago)

I'm glad this is going to become another thread about the ethics of downloading.

― Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:28 (twenty years ago)

i am glad the internet has obviated ethics

― ham'ron (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:29 (twenty years ago)

ethics... hey can you YSI that man? i'll totally hook you up.

― yuengling participle (rotten03), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:31 (twenty years ago)

I'm glad people think everything happens on the internet.

― Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:32 (twenty years ago)

i just took a leak offline.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:33 (twenty years ago)

b-but you can't download not on the internet?!

― ham'ron (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:34 (twenty years ago)

hilarious xpost

― ham'ron (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:34 (twenty years ago)

Leaking is unethical.

― Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:35 (twenty years ago)

i just downloaded a cup of coffee from mr. coffee in the basement.

― ham'ron (dubplatestyle), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:39 (twenty years ago)

the ysi-mania is obnoxious for all the reasons discussed above, BUT...in a lot of cases it seems like a completely natural response to threads that are partly saying "OMG I HAVE NEW REKKID AND YOU DON'T AND IT'S SOOOOO GOOD AND I BETCHOO CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR IT". when someone starts a thread about an album that's not even going to be out for 3 months, it's just begging for a lot of people to say "ysi?"

the rolling ysi threads i find interesting because i hear an awful lot of stuff that i wouldn't even know about otherwise -- and in the case of obscure remixes and so forth, things that would be hard to track down even if i wanted to pay money for them. or like the armand schaubroeck thread last week -- i've wanted to hear those albums for years, they're not even available on cd, so i appreciated someone taking the time to make them available.

i'm not saying don't police it, but anything like a blanket ban would seem excessive.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:41 (twenty years ago)

i think the high water mark was on one of those sanctioned ysi threads, when stir and vahid or somebody was having a great back and forth about 99 Records or something, then some noob pipes in with "stfu, post links only please".

― midi sanskrit (sanskrit), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:42 (twenty years ago)

but anything like a blanket ban would seem excessive

not only would it be excessive, but as evidenced from last weekend's purge, the same people just put up new threads saying "where did my thread go". much better to lock with explanations, although mass deletions are hilarious and appropriate.

― midi sanskrit (sanskrit), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:44 (twenty years ago)

Yah I think without explaining things it's not as effective as it might otherwise be. Although I guess that also invites bitching. Still, I've even wondered where threads go...

― Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:46 (twenty years ago)

YES thats right your God.
1) reason for all illness and disease in the world
2)Why complete cunts think their better than other people.
Fuck you and fuck your god neither belong here so just fuck off im bored of ripping on you know i think i proved my point.
Now please go back to the Whitehouse MR CHANEY

You are an abomination on the human race that does not make you a gos merely a virus in a infested world of scum and shit. Something im sure your "soul" has in abundence fuck head.
Go fuck yourself and oink can kiss my ass cause its shit and as long as you are a member i dont want to be a part of this bullshit franchise bittorrent bollocks. Nobody has the right to govern over what is free and this site makes a mockery of what is known as "file shareing".
God no complete douche yes
go and live your pityful life in reality not in some digital womb cause thats what you are to me a stillborn douche who doesn't deserve to waste oour precius oxygen
go and die somewhere no one will find you cause i bet no one will care....
Douchebagcockmunchingreligiousfuckwit
leave me alone.

A YSI fan, yesterday.

― Raw, Uncompromising, and Noodly (noodle vague), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:46 (twenty years ago)

the ysi thing has certainly made my dj sets more interesting... truth be told, there's a lot of records that people post here that i'd never have the time or energy to find, let alone the money to buy. maybe my memory's not serving me well, but i don't usually request new things, though i do post them. with as many bloggers and dj's and writers as are on this board, i've come to view the ysi thread like an rss feed of the most interesting parts of modern music culture. and that idea is quite fine with me. i feel bad when i upload something and it turns out that the label owner is upset about it (i.e. the disque primeur incident today), though i tend to believe (i know, naively altruistic), that ilm's readers effect music in a way that helps people to buy more of their music... i hope so anyway.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:46 (twenty years ago)

ysi's of entire albums that are in print = very rude, go use file sharing
ysi's of entire albums that are out of print = helpful
rolling ysi threads with singles = iTunes does exist, but I'm not upset
rolling ysi threads with representative tracks from albums = cash cow that has me spending online like a fool

brief, random ysi requests for things that _everybody_ wants to hear from relative strangers = annoying
polite requests from regular posters asking for something interesting = kind of cool

― milton parker (Jon L), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:07 (twenty years ago)

ysi's of entire albums that are in print = very rude, go use file sharing

I don't do this, but I'm curious -- isn't ysi file sharing?

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:16 (twenty years ago)

At least for me, I admit to sometimes being "that guy," though I don't think I'm the worst of it. It's just that the magazine I work for gets spotty promo coverage, so I can never be sure if or when something's coming, and I get curious. Then it'll show up in the mail a week later (hopefully before deadlines, but no record company seems to understand monthlies and I always get the press pack when the issue's been out two weeks already). And I definitely still feel like enough of a newbie here to want to avoid being seen as less-than-classy by starting up threads just to ask for the new shiny thing.
On the other hand, when an album's been out of print for years and is likely never coming back out, I feel little shame about trying to get it through you folks (like the Wildman Fischer disc).

― js (honestengine), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:16 (twenty years ago)

>I don't do this, but I'm curious -- isn't ysi file sharing?

yes, sorry -- change that to 'go download soulseek'

I'm hardly against file sharing, it's great (though I've never downloaded soulseek). I'm just all for keeping it off ILM public threads in much the same way I'd want people not to bring the bong with them to the family bbq, or start racking up lines of coke on the table at the 9 AM business meeting -- I'm not technically against the drug itself, I just want a sense of decorum on a public board

― milton parker (Jon L), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:24 (twenty years ago)

milton parker is otm.

― mcd (mcd), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:33 (twenty years ago)

for instance, i just got the New Order - Electro House Remixes CD with 5 awesome mixes. This is promo only and will not be released on CD format. Should I YSI?

gypsy/firstworldman/milton parker = otm

― biz, Friday, 24 February 2006 23:41 (twenty years ago)

People that wants scads and scads of YSIs on a public message board should go to the Sound Opinions Message Board.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 24 February 2006 23:42 (twenty years ago)

HE WENT THERE!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 24 February 2006 23:44 (twenty years ago)

I think it speaks well of ILM that this dialogue is taking place, and that the mods are being proactive about the problem. Milton pretty much summed up my take on it there. And I also appreciated the Armand Schaubroeck files, although I did have one of the records.

― sleeve (sleeve), Saturday, 25 February 2006 00:12 (twenty years ago)

I think the problem here are the beggars. YSI for the song (or maybe even album) in discussion is ok, if there really is an actual discussion going on. Conversation tends to die after the YSI link is posted, if the whole interest was in getting it. I never quite understood the dynamics of the YSI threads in ILM; a bunch of people would come and ask for a song, or more than one, and, if able to, would upload one of the requested songs. Go get Soulseek or Limewire or whatever! I dislike those threads very much.
Maybe beggars should have their threads deleted.
Discussion was not impossible before YSI became this huge phenomenon. It was even more normal. And plus, one's got to know what song A is about before wanting to download it, and that requires talking and describing. YSI threads unallow that.
Also, I'm with Milton.

― Caroline loves stars, Saturday, 25 February 2006 00:16 (twenty years ago)

milton otm, basically. even though i've found ysis of leaked albums pretty "useful" in the past, i agree they tend to get in the way of discussion. and starting threads to beg for a ysi of a leaked album should surely be an instant ip ban?

― toby (tsg20), Saturday, 25 February 2006 02:41 (twenty years ago)

wait a second, why does ilx need "a sense of decorum"? i'm not saying it doesn't, i'd just like to know why. when people have complained about certain types of threads (picture threads, joke threads, obnoxious threads) in the past, they've generally been told not to click on them.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 25 February 2006 03:31 (twenty years ago)

I think the real problem is meta threads about ILM.

― deej.. (deej..), Saturday, 25 February 2006 03:33 (twenty years ago)

Not really the 'real' problem, but a contributing factor perhaps.

― deej.. (deej..), Saturday, 25 February 2006 03:34 (twenty years ago)

You're all ignoring the real problem: Is Len actually a good band?

― Okeigh, Saturday, 25 February 2006 03:49 (twenty years ago)

obviously, yes.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 25 February 2006 04:04 (twenty years ago)

i'd just like to know why. when people have complained about certain types of threads (picture threads, joke threads, obnoxious threads) in the past, they've generally been told not to click on them.

because those are obnoxious but filesharing is illegal?

― destroye's noobies (haitch), Saturday, 25 February 2006 04:15 (twenty years ago)

can someone plz ysi that beethoven track that goes: BA BA BA BUMMMMM...

thx

― Pablo (Pablo A), Saturday, 25 February 2006 04:20 (twenty years ago)

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0IU0X6V27AV3B0LSI9HVFF9A7F

― Okeigh, Saturday, 25 February 2006 04:34 (twenty years ago)

Or did you mean this one: Ba ba ba bumm "Neat" Ba ba ba bumm "Sweet" Ba ba ba bumm, ba ba ba bumm, ba ba ba bumm, "Petite?"

http://s40.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2M7MSZ62ERUTF2TCNGI18I60C0

― Okeigh, Saturday, 25 February 2006 04:39 (twenty years ago)

illegal schmillegal

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 25 February 2006 04:53 (twenty years ago)

oh dear

― Pablo (Pablo A), Saturday, 25 February 2006 07:22 (twenty years ago)

any more recommended ysi's?? this looks like it'll be a great ysi thread!!

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Saturday, 25 February 2006 07:48 (twenty years ago)

Well, apropos of the wet snow, I'd recommend:
http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=346F29MWI2CVW09OV20GH9WOBX
Link Wray - Girl From the North Country

Q: Does it get any better than this? A: No.

― Okeigh, Saturday, 25 February 2006 07:53 (twenty years ago)

That was such a nice tune, which I totally doubt I would have heard if it were'nt for ysi. : )

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Saturday, 25 February 2006 09:29 (twenty years ago)

The accessibility of music has meant that it is taken for granted and does not require a deep emotional commitment once associated with music appreciation, say researchers

― JoB (JoB), Saturday, 25 February 2006 13:19 (twenty years ago)

no no it's our good friend Andy North, not researchers

― blunt (blunt), Saturday, 25 February 2006 13:26 (twenty years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.