Coldplay: vague emotional nothing lyrics = hate / Talk Talk: vague emotional nothing lyrics = love

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Coldplay gets so much hate from musical hipster types for having vague emotional nothing lyrics. Talk Talk gets love. There is definitely a huge difference in musical experimenting, yet, both make pleasant, wafty pop without much bite or much to get annoyed at in my mind. Coldplay doesn't leave much that sticks, but I don't hate it... Talk Talk I want to love, but it also doesn't leave much that sticks because I can't give a shit about whatever it is he's singing about... I think i prefer the mid-period synth popish stuff the most... um why don't they get more criticized for that? thats all

― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:01 (twenty years ago)

Who cares about the lyrics anyway?

― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:02 (twenty years ago)

Because lyrics aren't that important? Because Chris Martin foregrounds his shit lyrics?

― Abu Hamster (noodle vague), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:04 (twenty years ago)

well wouldn't "who cares about the lyrics" make dylan a footnote... i just like a whole package with good music and good lyrics too.

― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:10 (twenty years ago)

because he foregrounds them, because they seem to be struggling to signify, because they are in fact a string of banal clichés and uselessly mixed metaphors, etc.

i actually don't hate coldplay, but the lyrics are definitely the weak link, the part that gives me great pause--precisely because they are so unavoidable as part of the recording.

some t.t. lyrics are pretty stupid. i don't know if can remember any of them, though, outside of the hooks--if i can, it's not because of their sense but because of their sound.

this is not to present some sort of anti-lyrics, pro-sound argument à la ned, just that in this particular case, lyrics aren't of paramount importance.

― amateurist0, Friday, 24 February 2006 20:11 (twenty years ago)

the whole package is why coldplay are vastly more popular than talk talk

x-post

― Dominique (dleone), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:11 (twenty years ago)

I think the lyrics are sort of the least of Coldplay's problems.

― Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:20 (twenty years ago)

agree. and every component of talk talk is equally bad (should i go into hiding mode now?)

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:26 (twenty years ago)

it might be that coldplay's music comes across as too sugary and sacharrine while talk talk's is perfectly sweet. that's how it seems to me.

and really, i can barely understand mark hollis because he's mixed so low.

― lf (lfam), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:30 (twenty years ago)

hey, if coldplay's next two albums are on par with spirit of eden and laughing stock, all will be forgiven.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:32 (twenty years ago)

also, we should take into account the difference in critical response for a band as successful as coldplay compared to one as (arguably) marginal as talk talk. if two hypothetical bands of equal quality (not saying that coldplay=talk talk) achieve such disparate levels of popularity and they both have shit lyrics, the popular one is going to draw ire.

i'm not sure if that needed to be said.

― lf (lfam), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:33 (twenty years ago)

well wouldn't "who cares about the lyrics" make dylan a footnote

What a sweet dream.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:45 (twenty years ago)

i'm glad you said it

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:45 (twenty years ago)

I like both Coldplay and Talk Talk.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:47 (twenty years ago)

somebody needs to please show me how talk talk is awesome and not boring. i have an open mind, yknow.

― pssst - badass revolutionary art! (plsmith), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:52 (twenty years ago)

ned r. hates dylan?

― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Friday, 24 February 2006 20:59 (twenty years ago)

The current Coldplay track that's popular now is kind of transcendent for me. Transcends the way I feel about their aesthetic in general. I don't know if it's the chorus, but that part with the vocal lines alternating with that guitar riff - that's beautiful! There was an article in the San Diego Union-Tribune recently where the writer was talking about dumbed down aesthetics becoming popular and stated that Coldplay was dumbed down Radiohead (I'm paraphrasing a bit). Man, if Radiohead has a moment as beautiful as the moment in that Coldplay song, I ain't heard it.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:00 (twenty years ago)

I think Dylan = "was a hero to most but never meant shit to me" for a lot of people

― Dominique (dleone), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:02 (twenty years ago)

I think it's natural for there to be less sixties-centric thinking from people born in the seventies and eighties, though.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:04 (twenty years ago)

I mean, who is a seventies figure that would be somewhat comparable to Dylan that people would say that about?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:05 (twenty years ago)

ha, dumbed-down radiohead... isn't radiohead tarted-up pink floyd

― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:06 (twenty years ago)

I mean, who is a seventies figure that would be somewhat comparable to Dylan that people would say that about?

Step forward Mr. Springsteen. And then DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE. I'm sorry, I was clearing my throat.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:07 (twenty years ago)

I don't think Springsteen is comparable to Dylan.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:09 (twenty years ago)

At least not in the way I was thinking of Dylan: a really significant figure in the development of alternative or progressive strains of music in that decade.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:10 (twenty years ago)

coldplay is admittedly an easy target, but i have trouble imagining a word like "beautiful" associated with them. "pretty"? maybe. "beautiful"? gawd no

side note: i'm a bit tired of the "lyrics are nothing sound is everything obey your thirst" argument. lyrics exist. they may matter, they may not, depending on context/taste etc. but they exist. damn you for denying them their right to live. damn you all!

xpost: oh but i'm actually with you 100% wrt springsteen

― marc h. (marc h.), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:10 (twenty years ago)

some music has lyrics that don't matter or necessarily enhance it, some does.

― gear (gear), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:13 (twenty years ago)

I know what you're saying, Marc, but that particular part of the song with the vocal lines alternating with the guitar riff is beautiful, I think.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:13 (twenty years ago)

("Talk" is the song I was referring to, by the way.)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:19 (twenty years ago)

There is definitely a huge difference in musical experimenting, yet, both make pleasant, wafty pop without much bite or much to get annoyed at in my mind.

your comparison fails because the talk talk albums that are pleasant, wafty pop aren't the talk talk albums that your notional hipsters celebrate. the hipsters love talk talk mainly for laughing stock and to a lesser extent spirit of eden and musically speaking those just aren't anything like the conventional, if pretty, coldplay albums.

next time you're in the office play "after the flood" and see how it goes over compared to any track off X&Y.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:22 (twenty years ago)

I love Coldplay and Talk Talk. So nyah!

― Mr. Snrub, Friday, 24 February 2006 21:23 (twenty years ago)

It's amazing how many people like "Talk" who don't tend to like Coldplay! (myself included).

In terms of Coldplay's lyrics generally, it's as much a matter of Chris Martin's singing - I think that, increasingly in the post-Jeff Buckley world, there's a socially implied link between male vocals in higher registers and some sort of emotional intensity and truth. If you actually buy that association wholeheartedly then it probably makes a lot of the lyrics from people like Martin and James Blunt seem better than they are. If you don't buy it, you remain aware of the association, with the result that you're only reminded of how far short of "transcendent" the whole package is falling, to the point that the lyrics probably seem worse than they are.

Also most of the time Martin's going at quite a slow pace, with each line delivered almost in isolation: "Lights will guide you home.........and ignite your bones........and I will try..... to fix you." Again the effect is to focus your attention on each moment in the lyrics. If you look at a lot of other pop music (which exists in a post-R Kelly world rather than a post-Jeff Buckley world) the lyrics are delivered pretty quickly, such that if there's a duff line here or there it's quickly gone and forgotten.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:23 (twenty years ago)

jesus, have you people even HEARD Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock? the only place there is even a comparison is if you're talking about It's My Life. The later talk talk albums are on another plain entirely. Wafty pop music without much bite? Wha?

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:25 (twenty years ago)

oh guess that was an xpost of several degrees. but what fortunate hazel said.

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:30 (twenty years ago)

Again the effect is to focus your attention on each moment in the lyrics.

PRECISELY THE PROBLEM. But anyway.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:33 (twenty years ago)

Yes that was my point Ned! I'm not defending Coldplay, I'm trying to work out why I don't like them much.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:39 (twenty years ago)

No, no worries, that was mostly just me going ARRRRRRRGH. I think their worst song in this regard is "In My Place," which frankly is the nadir of civilization. Lazy classic rock dreck.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 24 February 2006 21:42 (twenty years ago)

Coldplay = vague emotional nothing lyrics? They only wish they meant so much more, I guess, and I don't think the lyrics are there for sound value, because Chris Martin is too intent on putting himself across as the nicest guy in the world.

― Deluxe (Damian), Friday, 24 February 2006 23:51 (twenty years ago)

Hehehe, I like "In My Place". It sounds like Echo and the Bunnymen.

― Raw, Uncompromising, and Noodly (noodle vague), Friday, 24 February 2006 23:54 (twenty years ago)

If they blew, yes.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 24 February 2006 23:55 (twenty years ago)

Which they've been known to do, on occasion.

― Raw, Uncompromising, and Noodly (noodle vague), Friday, 24 February 2006 23:59 (twenty years ago)

xpost to general lyric importance discussion. i don't think i really actively/consciously listen for or look for meaning in a song's lyrics while i'm listening to the song. and after the song is over, I might contemplate the lyrics more on a poetry/prose level, but its a different thing -I feel my reaction then shouldn't count towards evaluating the song. i just get the sense alot of people see lyrics as either prose, poetry, sound and i alway thought the artist was going for more a point between the poetry and sound thing. and like you can pull certain words out and ignore others b/c its not really continuous. well, not sure how to explain this/if its different from the norm anyway/matters. i just don't feel like i'm on the same plane etc.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Saturday, 25 February 2006 00:10 (twenty years ago)

I am not connected to the Coldplay/Talk Talk discussion yet - I'm too amused (not to mention shocked) by the low importance people seem to give to lyrics. I find them hugely matterful in songs. I never thought they could be considered so irrelevant.
This is music with bad lyrics getting high on everybody's taste. As it's been said above, in a regular pop song, an ugly sentence passes you by so quickly it is forgotten in a second. One can get used to it easily and will forget what it's like to hear good lyrics. I guess the only way to get one to realise is by showing them a good song with beautiful lyrics. Music is also poetry (or at least it was in the beginning).
And, personally, Coldplay's lyrics are pretty weak and don't touch me at all.

― Caroline loves stars, Saturday, 25 February 2006 00:36 (twenty years ago)

That's the problem with me and Coldplay, I listen to their music and I think it's really cool & catchy and reminds me of all my fave 80's bands BUT for some reason after I finish listening to one of their albums I don't feel any emotional connection and always think Coldplay is great musicians so why can't I LOVE them like everyone else? The reason is because there is 'something missing'and I'm guessing it's the empty lyrics. Talk/Talk, yeh their lyrics are pretty much the same style but see they were one of the 'pioneers' of their genre so it doesn't really annoy me.

― Miranda Leigh (Miranda Leigh), Saturday, 25 February 2006 01:37 (twenty years ago)

The stolen guitar riff is the reason all the non Coldplay fans dig "Talk"

― roberton, Saturday, 25 February 2006 01:56 (twenty years ago)

What song is it stolen from?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 25 February 2006 02:00 (twenty years ago)

Kraftwerk, "Computer Love"

― Deluxe (Damian), Saturday, 25 February 2006 02:05 (twenty years ago)

"Computer Love" is beautiful and "Talk" is useless.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 25 February 2006 02:21 (twenty years ago)

Whoa, it is indeed totally stolen from that.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 25 February 2006 02:25 (twenty years ago)

"Talk" brings to mind the image of Jonny Buckland playing on the edge of a cliff in the manner of Roland Orzabal in the video for "Shout".

― Deluxe (Damian), Saturday, 25 February 2006 02:29 (twenty years ago)

Roffles: "Talk" and "Computer Love" are even in the same key.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 25 February 2006 02:47 (twenty years ago)

Wait, Tim, you hadn't noticed this at all before.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 25 February 2006 02:55 (twenty years ago)

No, I had not. Perhaps it is common knowledge.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 25 February 2006 03:20 (twenty years ago)

(And reading up on it now, I see that it was intentional and Kraftwerk were given songwriting credit for it.)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 25 February 2006 03:24 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, Chris Martin wrote the Kraftwerk guys a letter asking to sample the song. There was an article in NME where he spoke of how much he loved Kraftwerk.

I like Talk quite a bit, but there's just no comparison to Kraftwerk. Side 2 of Computer World obliterates Coldplay's entire output, I think. But I don't hate Coldplay, I listen to their songs sometimes and like it. Most people probably take issue with their incredible popularity than the overall musicianship, which is usually decent I'd wager.

― Harrison Barr (Petar), Saturday, 25 February 2006 05:28 (twenty years ago)

OK, this is the stupidest idea for a thread EVER.

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!! (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Saturday, 25 February 2006 05:50 (twenty years ago)

esteban otm

― lf (lfam), Saturday, 25 February 2006 06:52 (twenty years ago)

I think their worst song in this regard is "In My Place," which frankly is the nadir of civilization. Lazy classic rock dreck.

It seems to take a lot from Ride's Dreams Burn Down (credit to the SA article on Coldplay for pointing that out) and turn into the sort of tired ballad that shows up on Carnival of Light. Now that I think of it, Ride songs like "Only Now" predate Coldplay's style a bit.

― Cunga (Cunga), Saturday, 25 February 2006 07:57 (twenty years ago)

As a wise old man once said, "I could eat alphabet soup and shit better lyrics than Chris Martin."

― stu (stu), Saturday, 25 February 2006 08:20 (twenty years ago)

Look at the stars,
Look how they shine for you,
And everything you do,
Yeah they were all yellow,

I came along
I wrote a song for you
And all the things you do
And it was called yellow

So then I took my turn
Oh all the things I've done
And it was all yellow

Your skin
Oh yeah your skin and bones
Turn into something beautiful
D'you know you know I love you so
You know I love you so

I swam across
I jumped across for you
Oh all the things you do
Cause you were all yellow

I drew a line
I drew a line for you
Oh what a thing to do
And it was all yellow

Your skin
Oh yeah your skin and bones
Turn into something beautiful
D'you know for you i bleed myself dry
For you i bleed myself dry

Its true look how they shine for you
look how they shine for you
look how they shine for you
look how they shine for you
look how they shine for you
look how they shine
look at the stars look how they shine for you

― stu (stu), Saturday, 25 February 2006 08:26 (twenty years ago)

I like "Talk" but I also like "Speed of Sound" and "Clocks."

― jaymc (jaymc), Saturday, 25 February 2006 09:32 (twenty years ago)

hey, if coldplay's next two albums are on par with spirit of eden and laughing stock, all will be forgiven.

no no no no no no no no...

don't try and slip that one past us hazel

― john clarkson, Saturday, 25 February 2006 09:41 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

The Rainbow - Talk Talk

Oh yeah
The world's turned upside down
Jimmy Finn is out
Well how can that be fair at all
Lenient
The song the lawyer sang
Our nation's wrong
Well how can that be fair at all
Repented changed
Aware where I have wronged
Unfound corrupt
This song the jailer sings
My time has run
Come sound the victim's song
The trial is gone
The trial goes on
Sound the victim's song

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:02 (nineteen years ago)

New Grass - Talk Talk

Lifted up
Reflective in returning love you sing
Errant days filled me
Fed me illusion's gate in temperate stream
Welled up within me
A hunger uncurbed by nature's calling
Seven sacraments to song
Versed in Christ should strength desert me
They'll come, they come
Come there, come come do they
Lifted up
Reflected in returning love you sing
Heaven waits
Someday Christendom may come
Westward evening sun recedent
Set my resting vow
Hold in open heart
Open heart

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:08 (nineteen years ago)

This thread is very, very silly.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:08 (nineteen years ago)

postrock talk talk has lyrics?

― a.b. (alanbanana), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:10 (nineteen years ago)

What's yr point Nick? Both those lyrics are better than most of Coldplay's.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:12 (nineteen years ago)

Precisely.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:13 (nineteen years ago)

Oh right. Yes. Precisely.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:16 (nineteen years ago)

Waaaaaaay better. Look no ridiculous simpleton's rhymes! I was going to write a long rant, but this is obvious, no? I mean they share a certain yearning earnestnes, I think, but Coldplay's is executed with Hallmark card levels of banality, wheras Talk Talk go for more an elusive neo-christian gnostic pastoral redemption type effect. Or something....

― gekoppel (Gekoppel), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:17 (nineteen years ago)

be patient, coldplay's next album is their chronological spirit of eden.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:19 (nineteen years ago)

Coldplay are the wrong band to look to for that. Keane are the ones much more likely to.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:20 (nineteen years ago)

Just reading those Yellow lyrics..did Noel Gallagher toss a few old rejects their way to get them started or something?

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:20 (nineteen years ago)

xxpost

Or their chronological Unforgettable Fire. 'cept I doubt it'll be that good.

― Dogfight Giggle (noodle vague), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:22 (nineteen years ago)

I came along
I wrote a song for you
And all the things you do
And it was called yellow

So then I took my turn
Oh all the things I've done
And it was all yellow

Fuck me, that's just dreadful.

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:22 (nineteen years ago)

"Versed in Christ should strength desert me" vs calling your second child with a Hollywood star Moses.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:26 (nineteen years ago)

vs calling your second child with a Hollywood star Moses

But but but I thought he was supposed to be named Mortimer, after Steven Spielberg! What's happened?

Also:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/olem/churchsign.jpg

Tired, I know. I'm sorry.

― The Vintner's Lipogram (OleM), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

APRIL 5th:

Here she comes
Silent in her sound
Here she comes
Fresh upon the ground

Come gentle spring
Come at winter's end
Gone is the pallow
from a promise that's nature's gift

Waiting for the colour of spring

Let me breathe,
Let me breathe
the colour of spring

Here she comes
Laughter in her kiss
Here she comes
Shame upon her lips

Come wanton spring,
come for birth you live
Youth takes it's bow
before the summer the seasons bring

Waiting for the colour of spring

Let me breathe.
-------------
One of these bands is doing its own thing, one of these bands is just NOT the same.

― garax chocolate egg, Friday, 14 April 2006 19:13 (nineteen years ago)

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