Favorite seminal band(s) of the 80s which should be household names - and why?

REM. Uh wait no...

Friends Again - tis a pity they turned into Love and Money (with the exception of Chris Thomson who became The Bathers. I wish i hadn't got rid of Trapped and Unwrapped

Have we done this before? Or was it not time-specific?

Definitely Associates. The Sound, the Comsat Angels, AR Kane, Loop, Throwing Muses. No why yet.

Overdone answer: The Go Betweens.

The Chameleons. Repeat as needed. Andy's answers too, natch.

ClockDVA
"take heart now and don't fall
see yourself clear from the centre of it all
there is a place where lovers lay down and die
see the world as a blue pearl caught beyond time
and there's a fall from grace beyond angels beyond space..."

Nitpick: seminal + 'deserves to be household name' combination (latter implies yr Mum and Dad would know of them) a tricky one to pull off. I can't think of anyone from that era who meets both criteria at the moment. It would have been great if the Fall had gone massive in the 80s tho'.

Nitpick2: Loop?????

Yes, my friend. And now that I come to think of it, Jeff's original answer is of course the best one. :-)

Late 70s/early 80s: The Screamers. Tomata Desmond sez, "We didn't need to release records, we had FACES then!"

Another overdone answer: Orange Juice.

Welll...apologies. I'm new to these parts so I didn't realize this was a retread. As far as being a household name and being seminal, I meant the former as a bit of 'tongue-in-cheek'; better stated it would have read "should have received more recognition"(It seems many of the greats are passed over, non?). The phrase I used - be it evidence of my age - is one which has been used in a less than literal sense; the internet often reminds me of my age. I was also hoping the "why?" aspect might generate something more interesting than a rehash of favorites and stimulate some suggestions vis a vis bands I should go back and check out again. -jeff

I'm new to these parts so I didn't realize this was a retread

Don't fret, happens to all of us. :-) Just search the archives idly and see what you find!

mxyzptlk said AND WHY? so answer that bit too

Skinny Puppy, because everyone's mother needs to know about cold, mechanical music with growly vocals.

hmmm... there's a few I can think of: The Lotus Eaters, That Petrol Emotion, Progaganda, Abecedarians, China Crisis, and yeah Chameleons for sure. All had minor hits at some point, but were capable of much more...

Josef K, whose seminal sounds have been exciting my eardrums all month.
Savage Republic, who could be taking over today or tomorrow, UPS willing.

haircut 100

I know I posted the gig poster before, but the show I saw in Edinburgh 1980 with The Scars / Associates / Josef K / Fire Engines was fantastic, and all four bands were seminal, however the least remembered band - The Scars - were the best band that night.

Talking od Scottish early 80s stuff I really loved The Freeze too (nothing to do with Freeez) They should have become U2.

However, my all time 'whats wrong with the world?' neglected lost classic are surely Hula, a mid 80s industrial funk band that I obsessed over, and (briefly) became convinced would usher in the revolution, and probably a new age of enlightenment for all the peoples on the planet.

Well maybe not, but they had a tune called 'Fever Car' which was great. In a similar mold to 400 Blows or Chakk, but not as successful (is there any sadder utterances than 'not as successful as Chakk?).

modern eon::
as far as i know only released "fiction tales", a release that i still enjoy[but unfortunately now only have dubbed on tape] . kinda falls in the cures "pornography" vein albeit with "breathier" vocals.

Slovenly were about ten years ahead of their time and never got their due. Same with Saccharine Trust.

I know I posted the gig poster before, but the show I saw in Edinburgh 1980 with The Scars / Associates / Josef K / Fire Engines was fantastic

Did you go to the Frank Sinatra tribute evening at Clouds (Josef K, Associates, Aztec Camera), also in 1980?

Slovenly were about ten years ahead of their time and never got their due. Same with Saccharine Trust.

Damn Straight. Slovenly is probably the most undervalued band.

..And I was going to say Dumptruck until I thought about Slovenly.....

A couple of 2nd or 3rd tier, not quite seminal bands I don't think ILM has ever covered:

And Also the Trees (Cure-like and Cure-connected) Sad Lovers and Giants (folky misery)

I've only heard them recently via a friend who worships all things 80s/Brit/indie. Still not sure if they're my cup o' tea. Any believers?

Hate to be so predictable, but.....

K I L L I N G J O K E

http://music.dartmouth.edu/~dupras/kj/d.gallery/d.band/ d.lrg/kj.bw.lrg.jpg

Honour the smudgy photocopy.

Momus: Yes, though Aztec Camera didn't play, this would be just a bit too early for them, Josef K were just bringing out Radio Drill Time. First I can recall hearing about Aztec Camera was about a year later supporting Teardrop Explodes at the same venue.

The only thing not on the poster was a short set by him from Boots For Dancing who worked in Virgin on Rose Street.

Here's the poster again. http://www.btinternet.com/~cateran/edinburgh/sinatra1x1.gif

oingo boingo was so good and original. really. they were.

Momus, heh-heh. Only joking, there's still plenty of time.

The Pale Fountains. Why oh why oh why weren't they known to all the people in the land (rhetorical Q as I know why). The Gobies, the Assocs, etcetcetc.

Late 70's/Early 80's - GANG OF FOUR

Thanks for that poster, brings it back like yesterday!

A year on from this show I played my first ever live concert, at the South Clerk Street Cameo cinema, as The Happy Family, with Malcolm Ross and Davy Weddell from Josef K, Paul Mason (K's driver) and Ian Stoddart (later of Win). Third on the bill to The Cure, with And Also The Trees supporting. Nervous as hell and squeaky voiced. Set list: 'So They Say', 'My Double', 'Puritans', 'Innermost Thoughts', 'Spartacus'.

Did anybody mention Win? Shoulda won.

'Scuse me, got a plane to Tokyo...

smithereens

Did anybody mention Win?

Freaky Trigger itself is the eternal tribute to them. :-)

The Sound. Why? Started with the snarl of the times, then moved into the pre-postmodern lion's mouth of crisis of belief..and Adrian is crushed under the strain of it mentally - and the train of it physically. Melancholy, dark, anthemic - it seems he was too uncertain to believe and too afraid not to and it all played out in the music, full of redemptive hope and nihilistic shadows. RIP Mr. Borland. -jeff

And speaking of the Sound, *WHERE ARE MY REISSUES*? ;-) I know they've charged me for them...

Microdisney - perfect pop songs, intelligent lyrics, great musicianship, the press loved them, but nobody bought them - why? It still rankles me now that the likes of Beautiful South are 1000 times crapper than Microdisney yet get multi platinum sales. Sigh.

*WHERE ARE MY REISSUES*?

Don't worry, Ned. They're so worth the wait. I had spent the last few years wearing out Shock of Daylight/Heads and Hearts and Propaganda. Now there's plenty to take the weight off them.

The re-interest in the Sound is curious though, they were never that popular at the time, and they certainly were forgotten for a long time.

I saw them a couple of times, right after the first album was out playing in a pub called the Dutch Mill in Kirkcaldy to a handful of people - they were fine - the last song of the set was the epic 'Missiles' which was great, but pretty much of their time. They were well suited to the Bunnymen support tour.

I'm from Fife and bizarrely they played a tour of small Fife towns (Glenrothes, Kirkcaldy, Cowdenbeath, Kinghorn) which are only a few miles apart. (see http://www.renascent.co.uk/pages/giglist.html)

I would think there must be dozens of similar bands awaiting rediscovery of that ilk - Zerra 1 anybody?

Well maybe not Zerra 1, I remember them not being much cop.

Since I posted above I've been thinking more about The Freeze - dunno if anyone else knows of them: here is a link to a discography http://chat.carleton.ca/~nmedema/cindytalk/discography/thefreeze/ I don't have those Peel sessions but would love to hear them, I recall Quietly Burning being especially fantastic. If anyone is in touch with those LTM re-issue folks tell them to see if they can cover the Freeze.

Lots of talk of The Sound going around... where they really all that original... or is Adrian Bordland's death upping their credibility more than it should? I'm not trying to be critical; I just don't remember The Sound being all that essential. I'll stick to a staple with my choice: The Buzzcocks. Nobody said the choice had to be obscure, and there's more people than you think out there who just simply can't place them (outside of the RAV4 commercial), and they're accessible enough that "household name" status actually wouldn't be that hard. Please somebody don't mention Magazine... they were great, but only in patches. Don't even try to mention Luxuria.

McCarthy, Big Flame, Josef K, Wolfhounds, Half Man Half Biscuit, Jasmine Minks, June Brides

I'm not trying to be critical; I just don't remember The Sound being all that essential.

Well, to give you a sense of perspective -- about six, maybe seven years ago I picked up the first set of Sound reissues while visiting Santa Barbara -- this was before Adrian B passed on. The store owner was an expat Brit and I mentioned my own Chameleons appreciation; he told me some hilarious stories about how his crowd (up in Sheffield, I gather) always regarded the Chams as the wannabe younger brothers of the Sound and the Comsats, among other things. So being 'essential' may well have been in the eye of the beholder, as always, but the partisanship (and the reasonable claims for the Sound) was fully in place before the suicide. And since I discovered them before said sad event as well, I have to say that they certainly deserved the attention. "Total Recall" and "Wildest Dreams" remain my fave moments, of what I've heard so far, at least!

My defense of The Sound as a proper choice would be to ask you to play "From the Lion's Mouth" and/or "All Fall Down" again. Chalk it up to subjectivity if that doesn't do it for you. -jeff

I have to agree with Andy about the Comsat Angels. I was turned on to them about a year and a half ago, during a getting-toes-wet foray into post-punk. "Lame name," I thought, but the music - ohh, the music.

Every single member of the band plays economically but incredibly expressively, and they manage to completely avoid any cliches - in fact, their first three albums have hardly dated at all. I'd even say they're less dated than Joy Division's (a band they get compared to a lot) - Hannett's production is somewhat of an early 80s signpost, whereas the production on the Comsats' LPs is less auteurish.

Still, it's nonetheless incredible - Albini would kill for the drum sounds on those records. But instead of the dry, often brittle qualities of Albini's recordings, the Comsats' albums are glowing and warm without being completely awash with reverb.

Fellows, the singer and guitarist, can express more with four sparsely placed harmonics than most guitarists can over the course of an entire album. The bass is huge, towering, menacing - simple and powerful. Fellows' singing is slightly mannered but unobtrusive - on the surface, he sounds more in control of himself than, say, Ian Curtis; the psychological and emotional turmoil lurks within rather than leaps out, but there is still a deep current of insecurity running through his vocals, however subtly conveyed. Rather than seizing, he's waiting for the palpitations, the difficulty in swallowing. Glaisher is one of the most interesting and unique drummers I know of. His drumming is solid, sparse, forceful; each hit does work, no flourish is superfluous. Furthermore, he plays the kit like a collection of an auxiliary percussion rather than something to go *boom-boom-tschak-boom* on - but he always propels the song and perfectly defines and supports its arc. Did I mention the synth work? Textural and melodic at the same time, steadfastly avoiding early 80s synth-pop cliches without sounding purposefully difficult.

Well, I could cake hyperbole on this band all night. I've got to get out of this computer lab and go listen to their LPs right now. I just have to warn you: stick with the first three records - 'Waiting for a Miracle,' 'Sleep No More' (my personal favorite), and 'Fiction.' I've only been exposed to a little of their later output, but they tried to go commercial, and failed on many fronts. I hope I've convinced you to check them out - unfortunately, their stuff is pretty damned difficult to come by. It took me (with the help of my girlfriend) about a year to collect those LPs, from tiny internet stores in Holland and other assorted exotic locales. But it's well worth the effort. One last thing, while I'm here: SOMEBODY PLEASE REISSUE THOSE FUCKING ALBUMS ON CD!!! PLEASE DO IT, THE WORLD NEEDS TO HEAR THE COMSAT ANGELS!!! *stomps around the fire, throwing hands heavenward...*

And speaking of cool reissues, isn't there an A Certain Ratio reissue of some sort coming out soon? If so, that makes me very happy.

I believe the forthcoming ACR is not strictly a re-issue but a compilation different from any comp released before.

Some of these forgotten early-80s bands dropped out of sight because they went on to release rather ghastly records in the later 80s. In the case of the Comsat Angels, until about a year ago I had dismissed them on the basis hearing one of their post-Fiction releases back then.

Albini would kill for the drum sounds on those records

Funny you should say that -- Albini is a *HUGE* Comsats fan (the RPM reissue of Waiting for a Miracle talks a bit about this, apparently he thinks the bassline introduction on "Independence Day" is one of the greatest musical moments ever or something).

YOUNG MARBLE GIANTS

not so obscure hereabouts, but amongst the general public ...

Ned, I wasn't referring to your original post about The Sound with my question about whether Borland's suicide may have elevated the band in the scheme of things... I was actually responding more to mxyzptlk's post about The Sound (which referenced Borland's suicide (and trains no less) in relation to the music), and I was also questioning whether this is another case of a suicide adding more meaning and depth to a band than it should. It really was a question... Should I be interested in The Sound, or is it the whole Joy Division, Associates, Nirvana thing at play? (To me, Joy Division is obviously incredible, The Associates are interesting but uneven, and Nirvana is, ummm... teen music.) The fact remains that a relatively large contigent of music journalists are obsessed with some sort of suicide-artistic pendulum, and thus many bands/artists get a critical boost from suicide or death in general. Uncut, in particular, has a history of glorifying bands with tragic deaths or suicides in their genes, so the skeptic in me came out when they labeled five albums by The Sound as absolute classics. I'll revisit the two albums mxyzptlk suggested if the chance arises.

Also, Ned, I was never really much a fan of The Chameleons, but I do understood where you were coming from with the anecdote about The Chameleons being somewhat inferior to The Sound, even if such a comparison wouldn't necessarily mean much in my book.

Oh don't worry, I wasn't taking your note as a response to mine, merely a starting point for discussion. Don't fret! The suicide issue thing wasn't weighing on my mind in my answer...

I'm actually now thinking I have my memories of the music of The Sound and The Names a bit mixed up... I don't know, it seems possible. I'm definitely going to look further into The Sound.

Adrian Borland's death is very sad and from what I've read of his life and his lyrics he seemed like an extremely gentle soul, so I withdraw entirely the suicide/journalism question in relation to him and Billy Mackenzie (The Associates).

Also, so I don't come across like somebody who doesn't care for the Chameleons from a post above; it's more that I'm not familiar with enough of their discography than that I have any dislike for them. Having only given Strange Times a couple of spins after a friend told me it was on the level of MBV's Loveless, I kind of dismissed them. I'm guessing it was a mistake.

Well, they're my second fave band after MBV, so there you go. But your mileage may vary, etc.

ALPHAVILLE!!!!

Tim said **Uncut, in particular, has a history of glorifying bands with tragic deaths or suicides in their genes, so the skeptic in me came out when they labeled five albums by The Sound as absolute classics**

No. Chris Roberts and Allan Jones have known Adrian since the early days. Roberts has been writing about them for 20+ years. I know that he was very proud of From The Lion's Mouth in particular, and I have a feeling that he didn't really think he could ever match those early albums.

The re-issues are out - I saw them in Sister Ray this week.

I second everything that's been said about The Comsats and Alexander's comments about The Scars. Also Modern Eon.

A gig which really remains fresh in my mind is The Sound/Comsat Angels/Blue Orchids at The Lyceum in 1983. The Comsats were playing the Fiction material and were thrown off course when the backing tapes for 'After The Rain', the first number, screwed up and kept stopping. The Sound were had just released 'All Fall Down' and tried some of the more experimental stuff off that album. It didn't really work out either. I prefered The Comsat Angels in smaller venues where they could really blast. I saw them in November 1980 after they'd just released 'Waiting for A Miracle' and they were unbelievably good - thunderous drums, churning bass and white-hot blasts of synth noise. Brutal.

That was my first year at Univ and in my FIRST TERM we had Echo and The Bunnymen, Comsat Angels, The Teardrop Explodes and U2. After Christmas we booked New Order/Section 25, Orange Juice, Vic Godard, The Fall and Magazine. Except Magazine split up the week before the gig. There was some sort of cock up with the agency after that, and in my second year we had to put up with chart has-beens like Darts, Gary Glitter, Sad Cafe etc .

Dr C.,

Regarding the latter half of your post:

Ummm.... a big jealous fuck you.

Tim: What Associates have you heard? I ask this because I thought the same thing as you after hearing the singles collection. My opinion was changed drastically after I bought all the reissues (plus the singles disc has awful sound). Also, give some of the other Chameleons records a shot if you can. I admit Strange Times is my least favorite of their three studio records, which has a lot to do with the production. It's a toss up between the others; I pbly favor What Does Anything Mean, even though it's a bit glossier and over- produced compared to Script of the Bridge.

I must also mention this: The Sound's first record was given five stars in Sounds (McCullough), NME (Morley), and Melody Maker (Sutherland) when it came out. Have (m)any other records gone 3-for-3 like this?

Point of order: NME and MM did not have star ratings for albums in 1980.

Hmm! C-o-n-spiracy! What's up with that? I found it odd at the very least that each would have five-star systems. (My source is a fansite.) Nonetheless, the three reviews in question were quite positive to say the least.

**Regarding the latter half of your post:

Ummm.... a big jealous fuck you**

I didn't know you liked Sad Cafe, Andy.

Hi Andy. My only experience with The Associates is the V2 reissue of 'Sulk,' but that's supposed to be their defining album, isn't it? I remember 'Sulk' having a bit too much of Joy Division meets Soft Cell at-a-sideshow feel for my taste. Those are two bands that I really admire (JD and SC), though it is getting harder for me to appreciate Joy Division's gloom as my hair grays. (That last part isn't an easy statement for me; pumping Joy Division through headphones in my younger days was magical). With 'Sulk,' I sort of remember that I wasn't really digging the Mike Hedges production; most Hedges production I've come across bothers me in some way I can't figure out--maybe there's not enough separation in the bass and treble. I think it was Uncut that bragged about some of the vocals being recorded through a vacuum hose or something goofy like that. I haven't given it a spin in a while, but I'll shuffle it back to my CD inbox to see if it works for me in the future. Thank you for encouraging me to get into the Chameleons. It does look like I started with the wrong album (Strange Times), because I do remember a sort of lifeless feel in the production department. I've been meaning to see if I went wrong with them. Pretty much the same thing with The Comsat Angels, though my mistake there was picking up one of their later albums. I'm really looking forward to The Sound reissues, from all the praise I've read here and all the glowing reviews of the reissues and the original releases in the UK press.

Joy Division meets Soft Cell at-a-sideshow

How beautiful that you describe this album in a way that calls to my heart. "No" in particular -- how can you not love it?

If JD's gloom gets to you now, focus on their tension and energy, I sez. But I would. What Does Anything Mean? is where I started with the Chams, and I'm very glad I did...

My recommendations added to The Comsat Angels, The Chameleons etc. The Comsat Angels especially I think were doing something very original and distinct and if it weren't for the fear of goth (which they never were, really) I think they'd be given much more credit. Sleep No More in particular strikes me as absolutely bursting with brilliance and ideas, an album that sounds as much at home with a lot of stuff from the late eighties and nineties as it does with its 1981 brothers and sisters - there's such an intense effort into sound construction hidden in what are quite emotionally debilitating songs. The Chameleons I'm sentimentally attached to even more but I also don't listen to quite as much these days. Still don't have a copy of Script Of The Bridge except on a tape that's falling apart.

Also, strange to hear people speak casually about Modern Eon, who for years were a group I was positive only existed in the form of a few songs on a tape I had. Love those songs - "Second Skill", "The Grass Still Grows", "Playwrite" - but I've heard perilously little else. Ooh ooh I'm forgetting "Euthenics" which is awesomely, crashingly huge and so full of ideas it's almost oppressive. Love the tribal-sounding drumming they used. And I love pretty much any group like them, Comsat Angels etc. who sounded constantly on the verge of discovering shoegazer.

Sad Lovers & Giants The Snake Corps

because I was in both!!!

Maybe not seminal, but wonderful anyway: Saqqara Dogs, 63 Eyes, Pandoras. Runner up in the One Really, Really Good Song catagory: Bored Cops ("Three Hearts"). Bands no one else knows about (and were kinda good, kinda so-so) but me, but I have an affection for anyway: Apple, Ozzfish Experience.

About Thomson Twins get the respect they deserve. "Quickstep And Sidekicks" has dated better than most of my 80s albums.