Rockism comes to Bizarro-world, or, I suppose it was inevitable

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As readers of Wikipedia know, music journalist Ned Raggett predicted that "You’re not going to find anyone arguing FOR [rockism] any time soon, or at least coming out and saying so—but that’s precisely because of the terms of the discourse."

Any time soon is now.

We can ponder why this was inevitable later. First, the linky:http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=141472

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:vLzhMZTSEzXZaM:www.unf.edu/classes/freshmancore

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Thursday, 6 April 2006 18:21 (twenty years ago)

Rocksim is argued for constantly, in rehersal spaces and bars across the country, to say nothing of the whole "nu-rockism" idea.

― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 6 April 2006 18:24 (twenty years ago)

or on velvetrope.com

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Thursday, 6 April 2006 18:56 (twenty years ago)

I never grasped the implications of the whole rockism thing until I read reviews of Destroyer's Your Blues. Guy made his best album and the indie world was aghast because he used MIDI to do it...

― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 6 April 2006 19:06 (twenty years ago)

Rocksim is argued for constantly, in rehersal spaces and bars across the country, to say nothing of the whole "nu-rockism" idea.

Well yeah. But usually not qua Le Rockisme.

It's the notion of proudly claiming the label that has me baffled and amused. Mostly this particular poster seems naive, but in retrospect it strikes me as utterly predictable that a generation of proto-rockistes would discover the notion in stumbling upon the argument against. Idenitification with and outrage on behalf of follow.

Music used to meaaaan something maaaaaan.

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Thursday, 6 April 2006 20:50 (twenty years ago)

pop music is a bunch of fat people

― Washable School Paste (sexyDancer), Thursday, 6 April 2006 20:58 (twenty years ago)

I remember I had (what I considered to be) a pretty well-reasoned and logical argument in defense of "rockism", but then I realized that thinking about "rockism" in my free time made me, roughly, the world's biggest loser

― sixteen sergeants, Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:18 (twenty years ago)

The claim that white boys with guitars playing traditional verse-chorus based songs is irrellevant today is indeed a subjectivist, and as such rockist, claim.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:25 (twenty years ago)

That is, writing off Coldplay because "I don't like Coldplay" is not rockist, but if you write them of because they are a bunch of white boys with guitars playing melodic verse-chorus based songs, then you are being subjectivist, putting up some objektive criteria, which makes you just as rockist yourself.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:26 (twenty years ago)

http://www.lynwodemanor.co.uk/g/stress.jpg

― A Van That's Loaded With YSI? (noodle vague), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:29 (twenty years ago)

Geir Hongro you are OBVIOUSLY an idiot who can't understand that when the completely subjective criteria favor a minority of musicians, rather than a majority, it is TOTALLY DIFFERENT

― sixteen sergeants, Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:31 (twenty years ago)

Look at the current hitlists, for instance Billboard: Who is in majority?

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:32 (twenty years ago)

Billboard lists of the past 5-6 years, I mean

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:33 (twenty years ago)

No, please tell us yourself Geir, I'd like a nice long pointless thread sprung from this.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:38 (twenty years ago)

it should be called the geir page, this is most alarming : (

― gear (gear), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:44 (twenty years ago)

I'd like a nice long pointless thread sprung from this

I've got just the thing: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=141472

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:52 (twenty years ago)

There are no Billboard lists available on the Net, but the UK chart toppers are available, and I feel like the UK chart toppers (singles, of course) from the 00s back up my view rather well, even though 2005 is less typical than the rest of the 00s:

2000: 42 chart toppers, out of which 4 were by white guys with guitars writing their own (melodic) material

2001: 30 chart toppers, out of which 2 were by white guys with guitars writing their own (melodic) material

2002: 30 chart toppers, out of which 3 were by white guys with guitars writing their own (melodic) material

2003: 22 chart toppers, out of which 5 were by white guys with guitars writing their own (melodic) material (however, 3 of these 5 were by people who were either put together by managers or started their careers through a Pop Idol influenced show, and as such, they don’t fit with “rockist” criteria)

2004: 29 chart toppers, out of which 6 were by white guys with guitars writing their own (melodic) material. Out of those 6, 4 were by Busted or McFly, none of which fit with “rockist” criteria

2005: 28 chart toppers, out of which 9 were by white guys with guitars writing their own (melodic) material. In spite of 2 of those 9 being by teen idol McFly, 2005 was still the best years for “rockists” in the UK singles charts for ages.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:52 (twenty years ago)

http://www.szeps.com/images/despair.jpg

― A Van That's Loaded With YSI? (noodle vague), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:54 (twenty years ago)

http://myspace-295.vo.llnwd.net/00606/59/27/606227295_s.jpg
ROCKISM 101
Category: Music
People have criticized Rockism lately because they feel that a basic tennent of Rockism is that 'all manufactured music is garbage'. But this is a misconception about Rockism. If you take into account the puppetmasters behind the curtains that create this manufactured music most Rockists will acknowlede that their achievement deserves some recognition. Rockist have respect for any individual who perseveres in order to actualize their vision.
Another knock against Rockism is that people say that it sounds like nothing more than musical snobbery. Perhaps this is because Rockism involves defining qaulity. Rockist realize that there is a value in being conscious of certain things that can be appreciated on a deeper level than that of a catchy, flavor of the month pop song. The Rock of the 60s showed that a song could mean something a great deal more than 2 and half minutes of 'shaking your tail feather'. It can be poetry, it can be freedom, it can be revolution, it can be artistic expression of the highest form, it can be a source of mind expansion and new ideas.
The reason Rockism came into being in the first place is that in the early 1970s people needed a way to seperate "Rock" from "Pop". There was a time that Rock was so huge that the two were almost interchangable--this being sometime around the mid 60's. But as Rock and Pop began to go their own seperate ways some people had a hard time understanding this. The entire "Disco Sucks" campaigns in the mid to late 70's is an example of this misunderstanding. People who had formerly looked to Top 40 radio stations to get their music didn't understand that Rock was no longer Top 40. AOR emerged, but some Rock fans were still upset, and throughout the 70's the best Rock was becoming more and more unaccessable. New Wave Rock bands like Pere Ubu, Television, Talking Heads, The Modern Lovers along with Punk Rock bands like the Ramones, The Dead Boys, the New York Dolls were very rarely heard on either AOR or Top 40 radio. Meanwhile Disco (and Country music) was filling the air waves. So an ethos had to be developed, to help these folks who were looking for Rock in all the wrong places. Rockism was that ethos.
Enter the 1980s--a time when the need for Rockism was more dire than ever. Everywhere you looked you saw hairbands, synthesizers, drum machines, lip-synching, spandex wearing pretty boys and *gasp* choreography. Real Rock was deeply underground and DIY at this point. You could find it in the hardcore scene; Minor Threat, the MinuteMen. And you could find it on college radio; R.E.M, the Replacements, etc. In fact Rock was actually very strong, confident, and resilient through the 80s and by the end of the decade mainstream audiances would begin to take notice once again. Janes' Addiction, Sonic Youth and the Pixies signaled this reemergance, but it was the Seattle bands that blew the lid off of things. Here were an entire army of bands doing Rock pretty much the way it was supposed to be done. But this to became corrupted and therefore only lasted a short while before the best Rock went underground once again.

Since then the Indie labels are where you find the Real rock. Perhaps there will be another Rock explosion sometime in the near future, but for the most part Rock has grown to appreciate the cover provided by being underground. So much so that this now seems to be one of the tennants of Rockism--that the artists should be concerned with the music, not the Pop Industry bullshit that puts them in the public eye.
http://blog.myspace.com/paulewagemann

― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Thursday, 6 April 2006 21:58 (twenty years ago)

Because of course Geir, the only record that sells in any given week is that one that gets to number one, right? In 2005, 30% of record sales were "indie"/"rock". Compare this to, say, 12% "dance", 8% "R&B", or 6% "hip-hop". But, y'know, thanks for playing.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 6 April 2006 22:01 (twenty years ago)

one of the tennants of Rockism

http://www.nndb.com/people/751/000058577/neil-tennant.jpg

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Thursday, 6 April 2006 22:02 (twenty years ago)

I am speaking of singles lists here. They represent the kids, they represent the future. Album lists are less interesting.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 6 April 2006 22:03 (twenty years ago)

So going after the last 50 or so #1 albums in the UK, what would you put the average age at for someone who bought the McFly album? Or Akon? Or Hard-Fi? Or Jack Johnson? Or even Robbie for that matter? The only two albums in the past year and a half that were specifically ADULT purchases were the Faithless best of and that new Dave Gilmour one.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 6 April 2006 22:12 (twenty years ago)

I mean, keep up Geir, these are post-iPod times we live in! Kids buy albums these days, adults buy singles, its a kinda crazy mixed-up world where Embrace outsell Ne-Yo!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 6 April 2006 22:12 (twenty years ago)

Actually, the rest of that thread (under the linky) is heart-warming - a whole bunch of people who never really thought about this stuff who eloquently voice their instant disapproval. The kids are all right.

― naranjito (Koens), Thursday, 6 April 2006 22:13 (twenty years ago)

The Gear Page in for world of fun:

GeirH
New Member

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1
Why?
Peter Frampton, Bruce Springsteen and Van Halen all have the following in common:
- They write their own songs
- They play their own instruments
- Their music is largely guitar based
- They make music that they, themselves, enjoy, and don't direct them at some commercial audience
I'd rather put the blame on mid to late 80s mass producers such as Stock/Aitken/Waterman, Jam/Lewis and LA/Babyface

― A|ex P@reene (Pareene), Thursday, 6 April 2006 22:25 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

I know the R word 'round here is grounds for "/\/\/\ suggest ban"-ery, but, well, fuck it.

Rockism vs. “dance purism.”

Rockism says: No synths/computers. It takes out all the soul/effort, makes it too easy, and anyone can do it. You have to use real instruments and play it by hand.

Dance Purists say: No computers. It takes out all the soul/effort, makes it too easy, and anyone can do it. You have to use real hardware and make it by hand.

Rockism says: Zep, Floyd, The Stones: This is the high point in music, all else is derivative, and should strive to match this sound.

Dance Purists say: Theo Parrish, Moodymann, The Belville Three: This is the high point in music, all else is derivative, and should strive to match this sound.

Rockism says: Respect the album format.

Dance Purists say: Respect the 12” format.

Rockism says: Prog/experimental music is all a bunch of nonsense that kills the real feeling of rock.

Dance Purists say: Contemporary dance music is all a bunch of sound-design nonsense that kills the feeling of dance music.

― Their time's limited, hard rocks, too (mehlt), Friday, 7 November 2008 00:21 (seventeen years ago)

I never really thought of the extent of how similar the two were until not too long ago.

― Their time's limited, hard rocks, too (mehlt), Friday, 7 November 2008 00:22 (seventeen years ago)

it's totally possible to be rockist about any kind of music (or any kind of anything). the way i see it, rockism is about using some kind of external framework (eg 'the album format is best' or 'only people involved in a certain local scene can make this kind of music properly') to judge things, rather than really thinking about your own reactions to the song/track/album/video/film/book/building/outfit/person/whatever itself. it's about appealing to the assumption of a shared higher authority rather than defending or attacking things on their own terms.

― WHALE WARS (jabba hands), Friday, 7 November 2008 00:54 (seventeen years ago)

i just posted about rockism. pls suggest ban me :(

― WHALE WARS (jabba hands), Friday, 7 November 2008 00:56 (seventeen years ago)

dunno chum, think most people already understand the idea that rockist attitudes can be applied to other genres than rock itself. dance spods are annoying, tho.

xxposts

― stone cold all time hall of fame classics (internet person), Friday, 7 November 2008 00:59 (seventeen years ago)

Yes, that's very true. It seemed a lot more novel last night, falling asleep. I get the impression, however, that a lot of those dance spods are among the type that still denounce rockism while being very self-righteous at the same time (and of course deny any such thing).

― Their time's limited, hard rocks, too (mehlt), Friday, 7 November 2008 01:20 (seventeen years ago)

pop music is a bunch of fat people
― Washable School Paste (sexyDancer), Thursday, April 6, 2006

^^^^ otm

― velko, Friday, 7 November 2008 02:08 (seventeen years ago)

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