Honestly, what do you people have against flutes?

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Flutes are always in for serious bashing on ILM. Would any of the flute-bashers maybe care to provide some sort of semi-coherent explanation for their distaste? Is it a sense of "preciousness?" The cod-jazzy lilting they're often picked for? Or just the timbre of the instrument itself?

I happen to think flutes are lovely and underused in pop music: they fit really nicely into often-unused higher frequencies of the mix, they can provide clean melody lines that nonetheless have real texture and body to them, those melodies can be articulated (tongued or breathed) in fashions other instruments don't offer, and they can be very very subtle if used properly. I am very open to the idea that they've been used very badly in pop music -- but not nearly as badly as the saxophone was abused in the mid-80s, and I don't see knee-jerk sax instrumentism going on in here.

Dream combo: a flute, bassoon, cello, musette, clarinet and Moog, if they were willing to rock. Okay: maybe not rock, but then again Shelleyan Orphan managed to draw out some pretty rollicking chamber-pop, and I'd like to see someone pick up from "Shatter" and run.

― Nitsuh, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Flutes were used nicely on the first Soul II Soul album.

― Sean, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sounds like your dream combo is Univers Zero. That said, yes, flutes have a bad rap.

― dleone, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

doesn't Ptee love them?

― Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ich finde die Zauberflaut sehr shön.

― Sigmund Freud, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm a firm believer in the power of the flute - remember my devotion to "Autobahn" - but when it's bad, it's horrendous. It mixes very poorly with other instruments, I'd say - even if it's playing very low-key lines, it sounds like it's trying to take center stage.

And what little Univers Zero I've heard made me want to press a hot iron against my face.

― Clarke B., Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Despite the flaws of the flute, though, I'd rather listen to a flute than a clarinet ANY DAY. The clarinet has one of the queasiest timbres I've ever encountered.

― Clarke B., Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

luv a flute wiv a beat. i mean:

the beatnuts - watch out now

beastie boys - flute loop & the sure shot

jurassic 5 - jayou

how can you lose?

― minna, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You said **Honestly, what do you people have against flutes? Would any of the flute-bashers maybe care to provide some sort of semi- coherent explanation for their distaste? Is it a sense of "preciousness?"**

Anybody else think this Nitsuh person needs to lighten up? Semi- coherent? And your page long essays make any sense? Turn down that Shelleyan Orphan garbage and relax a little.

― Murray Head, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The flute is not one of my favorite instruments. I think it's mainly just due to the timbre and the fact that it's a very difficult instrument to play expressively. Compared to say, the sax, the possibilities to shape the sound in a distinctive way seem to be quite limited. It's a very bland and same-y sounding instrument to my hears. It seems like the choices are basically limited to: blow hard or blow soft. I have heard it used well, but not frequently. A few examples of flute that I like: "Space Moth" by Stereolab, "Bouree" by Jethro Tull - I know there are more, but can't think of them at the moment.

― o. nate, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hey Murray, they used to say to Charles Chaplin "Dude, get serious." Then he explained he wasn't funny all the time. Like when he's asleep he has dreams about existentialism and the ramifications of smiling on the facial muscles.

― nathalie, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This Nitsuh person?? Why, you got a better one?

― Curt, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Semi- coherent? And your page long essays make any sense?

Oh come now: I seriously doubt I've ever written anything that would fit on just one page!

― Nitsuh, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Flutes are great. Piccolo flutes, eh, I'm not convinced.

I love it when people do that singing/screaming while playing flute at the same time stuff, like Roland Kirk and Dave Valentin.

― Jordan, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Even the instruments I think of as ones I don't especially like, which includes many the instruments of the traditional symphony orchestra, can sound good used in certain ways. I like a lot of music with flute in it. There is wonderful flute work in a lot of the Sun Ra Arkestra reissues which Evidence has put out over the last decade or so (e.g., the albums "Angels & Demons at Play" "Fate in a Pleasant Mood"). Marshall Allen, the current director of the Arkestra, still picks up the flute occasionally during their performances. There's a great Jimmy Giuffre piece with flute in it (but I'm not sure of the name--very helpful). It's funny though, because what I think of as typical jazz flute playing kind of turns me off. Early Kraftwerk made nice use of the flute. (I don't remember it being in "Autobahn," maybe it's time for me to buy a copy of that.)

I find the Arabic ney (and maybe some other middle eastern flutes I don't know the names of) more immediately enchanting than the western flute. The sound just sort of drifts like incense.

What does "cod-jazzy" mean, or is that a typo for "cool-jazzy"?

I like the timbres that Univers Zero plays with (although I don't know why I should, since I normally don't like a lot of those instruments). They have a nice sound, but I find them tedious. I recently sold a copy of "1313" that I'd only had for a few weeks or something like that. (Yes, I could have given it more of a chance, but I already had a lot of exposure to U.Z. a while back, and I think I'm ready to forget about them.)

― DeRayMi, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nothing as long as Roshand Roland Kirk is playing it. Which brings us back to; beastie boys - flute loop & the sure shot

― Dave Beckhouse, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

rock the flutes. What is "Shatter"?

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Suzanne from Mercury Rev rocks the flute. That alone provides the instrument's justification.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i wonder if it is because it is perceived as sounding feminine? this is not a explanation, merely a suggestion. i am repulsed by the flute. why? its just not very rockkin. threatens to ruin "wild thing" by the troggs.

― di, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yes, Mercury Rev provides some decent flute moments. And Rollerskate Skinny probably put a flute or two to use... I know there's a whistle credit on 'Shoulder Voices.' That goofy drummer/percussionist in Pavement (they were all goofy, but I think it was Bob Nastanovich) played that kazoo/flute thing that made swirly noises. Surely it wasn't a flute, but it had flute-like implications. Lots of semi- digestible and sometimes enjoyable flutes, whistles, and windy gadgets in the Kate Bush back catalogue. Plenty of baroque minimalist fluting in the work of Michael Nyman. There's gotta be some nihilistic flutal destruction at play in Einsturzende Neubauten...

― Tim DiGravina, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

When you can hear it in the maelstrom, Isobel in Bardo Pond has some nice moments - so does that guy in Blind Mr. Jones.

― Chris Barrus, Thursday, 14 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah, DeRayMi, I'm pretty sure that "Autobahn" has some nice flute. But you're right, the flute on the first few albums is pretty great, too, especially the second song on 'Ralf and Florian' - utter beauty.

― Clarke B., Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

regarding krafwerk and flutes, both of which i love very much, the latter probably due in large part to the formaer, and both having been big components of my earliest music exposure, the song RUCKZUCK off their 1st or 2nd album (as kraftwerk) is one of the mightiest songs in the universe. the flutes aren't "soft" in it, they're "hard" and rhythmis. i mean, i'd say they rock, but i hate that expression!

― elizabeth anne marjorie, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Never gave much thought to flutes until I heard Anthony Braxton playing them. He is always taking these big breaths as he plays all his reed instruments but I feel its even more so when he's playing the flute, which seems to suggest he is stretching his technique even more than usual.

And that's all I have to say on flutes.

― Julio Desouza, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Your dream combo sounds like Henry Cow to me (or one of the offshoots like Cassiber or Art Bears).

Great flautists in jazz: Henry Threadgill, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Bob Downes, Sam Rivers, Gunter Hampel, Eric Dolphy, James Newton. Honourable mentions for Hubert Laws, Neil Metcalfe, Stan Sulzmann and Eddie Parker.

No one's mentioned Tijay wotsisface out of Love who played on Da Capo (Orange Skies, She Comes In Colors etc.); highly evocative.

And let's not forget Virginia Astley!!!!

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That flute bit on Sigur Ros' "Olsen Olsen" sends shivers up my spine

― phil-two, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Czech flautist Jiri Stivin. Sings along and harmonises when he should be breathing. Mental.

― Daniel, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have a nice jungle 12" on dope dragon called 'willow the wisp' that has a flute sample. Is a good tune - not jazzy wank at all, but a prety decent techstep

― Robin, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think it's mainly just due to the timbre and the fact that it's a very difficult instrument to play expressively. It was all going so well until...

Compared to say, the sax,

Carummba!

― N., Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think it's hard to deny that the sax is more expressive than the flute. Most great sax players have a tone that is instantly recognizable to their fans. Just think of Albert Ayler's wail; or Charlie Parker's hard, brittle alto; or Evan Parker's twittering; or John Zorn's squeals. You only have to hear a few notes to recognize them. I don't think there are any flute players you could put in that category - not because they aren't any good, but simply because the flute doesn't allow much distinctive shaping of the sound.

― o. nate, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think it's hard to deny that the sax is more expressive than the flute.

Archer, not the arrow?

― dleone, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

seeing as there are only about three famous jazz flautists (Herbie Mann, Paul Horn and Roland Rahsaan Kirk) and countless saxophonists the comparison is a bit silly. in (one of the few interesting bits in) Careless Talk Costs Lives, Herbie Mann mentions how the flute is rare in Jazz, but essential to music elsewhere in the world, which explains the fusion nature of the three artists I mentioned above, although particularly the first two.

Herbie Mann recorded a huge number of albums in just about every style around - off the top of my head can recommend 'Memphis Underground', 'Impressions of the Middle East', 'Herbie Mann At the Village Gate'

Paul Horn - 'Jazz Suite On The Mass Texts' (arranged by Lalo Schifrin) and 'Inside' (possibly the first New Age album, but don't hold that against it; recorded inside the Taj Mahal) are both very good

― michael, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

here's a history of the flute in Jazz, with some more names of flautists. personally i like all the non-typical jazz instruments, like the 'cello or violin ('Stuff' Smith is great!). is a shame you don't hear them more often

― michael, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one month passes...

Tubas are better.

― Tara, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two years pass...

flute in hip hop update:
Lil Jon & The Eastside Boys ft. Lil Scrappy - What You Gon Do? - probably only flute instrument on some keyboard, but still...
and don't forget the massive Dr. Dre ft. Knockturnal - Bad Intentions from Car Wash 2 soundtrack.

― karl76 (karl76), Saturday, 25 September 2004 07:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Answer to title question = (c), the timbre of the flute itself. Such a teeny-tiny tonal range - practically silent. There's been some OK stuff played on flute over the years by giants such as Eric Dolphy, and as the occasional seasoning in certain '60s pop songs ("Along Comes Mary", "She Comes In Colours"), but for the most part, only Rahsaan Roland Kirk could be counted on to regularly make it interesting. Ian Anderson, being the Roland Kirk of rock, would (if he were honest) certainly concur...despite his denial to Lester Bangs back in '73. Such an obvious, blatant lie - there's no way he could've expected to be taken seriously. He even covered Roland Kirk on the first Jethro Tull LP for chrissake!

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Saturday, 25 September 2004 07:51 (twenty-one years ago)

They're indispensable in Indian classical music and Western chamber music. The flute in Karnatak and Hindustani music is just beautiful for reasons similar to the ones Nabitsuh listed (Dr Ramani and Hariprasad Chaurasia, respectively, are good examples. The latter also worked really well with John McLaughlin's Remember Shakti). Also, it has a melodic dexterity that not all instruments or voices have. They can be a nice touch in rock (e.g. "Mogwai Fear Satan", MBV's "Swallow"). I love the clarinet, maybe even more, and am thrilled to hear it in rock or improv or jazz or modern chamber music. It's such a pleasant and 'conversational' (?) sound, with sort of a quirky humorous quality. Oddly, everyone here seems to think the flute is just great for jazz, which is the one context where I'm not totally sold on the flute - that's where it can seem a little too 'light' and precious compared to the sax, which has a much less (to my ears obv) immediately pleasant timbre than the clarinet or flute but this works for jazz.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 25 September 2004 09:02 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

On some of Eddie Palmieri's early recordings (like Lo Que Traigo es Sabroso, which, by conincidence, I am listening to at the moment), the only wind instruments he uses are flute and trombone. It works shockingly well. I don't especially like either instrument.

― LaRue (rockist_scientist), Sunday, 28 November 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

trombone
Have you heard of Fred Wesley?

Isn't there a flute in "Spill the Wine"? I like that one, but it's basically a Latin groove, so it doesn't violate the "no flutes in rock" rule of thumb.

― Ken L (Ken L), Sunday, 28 November 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Honestly, what do you people have against flutes?

― It's hard to kill a horse with a flute (AaronHz), Sunday, 28 November 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Honestly, what do you people have against flutes?

I have nothing against them.

― (Leelee), Sunday, 28 November 2004 02:00 (twenty-one years ago)

son of hip-hop flute:
Lil Ghetto Boy on the Chronic, might not be a flute but sounds like one
The 2nd of DJ Quik's grooves, outstanding.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Sunday, 28 November 2004 02:44 (twenty-one years ago)

search: jazz flute scene in anchorman

― cutty (mcutt), Sunday, 28 November 2004 02:46 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a flute on the Troggs' "Wild Thing"? I thought it was an ocarine.

That said, best flutes in rock/soul songs I've ever heard are on "Reach Out, I'll Be There" and Stevie Wonder's "Another Star."

And I do think that's a flute and harmonica in combo on "Spill the Wine."

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Sunday, 28 November 2004 03:01 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

flute has the most beutiful sound an instrument can produce. it is created by breath which also is the base of the life . it is meditative , lifts the spirit . and magical of you listen and more if you play

― vasudevan, Wednesday, 19 April 2006 04:23 (twenty years ago)

You are, of course, speaking for yourself there v.

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 06:11 (twenty years ago)

Dance beats and flute : Bobby Konders aka Massive Sounds aka Instant House, also available in devastating Claussell mix/dub version(s?). "Available"..

― blunt (blunt), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 15:44 (twenty years ago)

http://eil.com/newgallery/Herbie-Mann-Push-Push-307965.jpg

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 18:32 (twenty years ago)

The last song that made me hate flute - Mos Def 'Sex Love Money'

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 18:34 (twenty years ago)

in HS band, the flautists are all uppity chix and sorta slutty though not as slutty as the clarinets.

― andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 18:44 (twenty years ago)

What were the oboists like?

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 18:45 (twenty years ago)

oboists: nerdy chix who like it ruff in the sack, duh.

― andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 18:47 (twenty years ago)

it could be dudes too, i guess.

― andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 18:48 (twenty years ago)

OTM, my friend.

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 18:48 (twenty years ago)

oboists: nerdy chix who like it ruff in the sack, duh.

This is actually true.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 18:51 (twenty years ago)

as a shy/nerdy/arty french horn player, i outwardly disliked these people but secretly wanted to party and slut it up like them

― andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 18:58 (twenty years ago)

Were the trumpet players vaguely jockish dudes who wore basball caps and seemed kinda dumb, but weren't cocky jerks like jocks are?

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:29 (twenty years ago)

depends on the chair. the more solos you get, the cockier you are.

― andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:42 (twenty years ago)

this is an excellent reason to hate flutes

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:00 (twenty years ago)

Were the trumpet players vaguely jockish dudes who wore basball caps and seemed kinda dumb, but weren't cocky jerks like jocks are?

Yes! Yes!

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:01 (twenty years ago)

The Clarinet players were always the sluts! Andrew M OTM!

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:11 (twenty years ago)

clarinet players were the kind of girls who thought white boxers with school spirit messages airbrushed across the ass were appropriate schoolwear. of course this was mid-late 80s mississippi so who knows.

among the flautists, there were always one or two talented players and about 12 terrible ones. listening to them tune up every day was neither meditative nor magical.

― andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:17 (twenty years ago)

The question now is clearly: does your personality determine the wind instrument you play, or vice versa?

And what was up with the percussionists? Holy hell.

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:54 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, the percussionists were a mixed bag, obv. Slackers of all stripes.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 20:58 (twenty years ago)

The flute is the Coldplay of musical instruments. So offensive to my ears I wanna kill some fucker whenever I hear it.

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 21:01 (twenty years ago)

flutes are pretty awesome

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 21:20 (twenty years ago)

Have heard a lot more from flutes since that post in '02, and mainly from the classical music end of things (although a mention oughta be given to Trina's 'Tonight', came across that one via spizz, and falls in line w/Minna's post).

So, lots to be said for Chris Dench and Brian Ferneyhough's large scale works for the instrument. A rev for the latter's disc on Bridge ended w/one of those almost half-apologetic "if you think 60-70 mins of solo flute might be a bit much..", which is acknowledging the bad press the flute gets, but at the same time is not that encouraging, even in what ended up as a very positive review! Not heard it in a while - explores i think far more of what the instrument can do, the shapes it comes up with (and does) but also there's an added on sense of drama w/a sorta questioning of the performer and his/her capabilitites (as w/so much Ferneyhough when perf on other instruments but this is a quality to a lot of modern 'new music' flute in the way you can hear a struggle with each breath - the kind of tension which drives the disc).

Hearing Klaus K Hübler's recently discovered 'Sonetto' (for solo bass flute) really drove that home last night (except its almost comedic).

You can hear part of Dench's take on it (w/full-on write-up) over at Boston Microtonal w/ a sample of his 'Sulle scalle..' (the full versh is 10 mins), which may not end up as the thing to refer as a 'beautitful sound..' type guff; although of course it can have that, but Ferneyhough and Dench go for a wider range, i often think of how some of these riffs could be sampled (and looped? etc) on some track or other...

finally - If you wanna be in a flutes paradise type thing (or hell, which you might prefer i know i do) then hear Chaya Czernowin's 'ina' for solo flute and tape part made up of 5 flutes. xps

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 21:39 (twenty years ago)

Think I'm busy that night.

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 21:46 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

I'm partial to skin-flutes.

― Brock Landers, Saturday, 20 May 2006 02:43 (nineteen years ago)

In defense of the pop flute:
"Cash Money" by Prince Charles
"Gett Off" by Prince
"No New Tale to Tell" by Love & Rockets

― Eazy (Eazy), Saturday, 20 May 2006 02:52 (nineteen years ago)

Could be an apocryphal tradition (promoted by anti-flautists?), but supposedly Mozart hated the flute. He wrote for it of course, but under protest, and only for $$. He was more of an oboe or clarinet man. I'm sympathetic. But really, what did Mozart know? If he had a Herbie Mann to write for, things coulda been different.

― cosi fan, Saturday, 20 May 2006 06:06 (nineteen years ago)

Also, Frederick the Great was an enthusiastic amateur flautist. He composed for the instrument--something like 120 entirely forgettable sonatas--and he inspired many more talented composers who sought his favor to do the same. Frederick the flautist had a light and a very dark side: a seemingly enlightened humanist who yet suppressed other enlightened humanists and who laid the ideological groundwork for the nationalistic Prussian militarism that would come to dark flower in National Socialism.

So there's some valid moral highground for flute-hating aesthetes. There are some dissonant historical echoes in those dulcet flute tones indeed.

― cosi fan, Saturday, 20 May 2006 06:54 (nineteen years ago)

"THERE'S NO SOUND IN FLUTES!"
(Buddy Rich, whenever it was that tape was recorded)

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 22 May 2006 11:18 (nineteen years ago)

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
But The Flute Player Will Be Right Back After This Spoken Section

― dr x o'skeleton, Monday, 22 May 2006 11:25 (nineteen years ago)

I like the little bit o' flute in the new Andy Montanez/Daddy Yankee collaboration "Se Le Ve" (which I am mentioning wherever I can remotely justify doing so).

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 May 2006 12:12 (nineteen years ago)

I am listening to Eric Dolphy's solo on "Stolen Moments."

So stop ya PHin'.

― Keywords: revenge, knife, granddaughter, demonic-possession, rock-star, eel (Aus, Monday, 22 May 2006 13:08 (nineteen years ago)

Flaming Lips got some great flute on their two latest.

― strom (strom), Monday, 22 May 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

four years pass...

Flute, still underrated....

― Funye West! (u s steel), Thursday, 3 March 2011 14:04 (fifteen years ago)

Flutes are classic forever if only for the wonderful flute solo on "Supper's Ready".

― You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Thursday, 3 March 2011 14:34 (fifteen years ago)

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lc7lripoKe1qz4s6ho1_500.jpg

― StanM, Thursday, 3 March 2011 14:38 (fifteen years ago)

insert skin flute gag

― a murder rap to keep ya dancin, with a crime record like Keith Chegwin (snoball), Thursday, 3 March 2011 14:47 (fifteen years ago)

insert insert skin flute & gag gag

― ka£ka (NickB), Thursday, 3 March 2011 14:49 (fifteen years ago)

David Jackson's flute on Van der Graaf Generator eg "Refugees" is lovely.

― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Thursday, 3 March 2011 14:54 (fifteen years ago)

When you can hear it in the maelstrom, Isobel in Bardo Pond has some nice moments

YES

― Damn this thread seems so....different without ilxor (ilxor), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:04 (fifteen years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ0_r4oYjX0

jurrrrrr

― historyyy (prettylikealaindelon), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:11 (fifteen years ago)

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