Ben Folds Five- C or D?

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Essential late 90s voice of the outsiders, or smug Billy Joel wannabees who deserved to be filed next to Cake?

Judd Nelson, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Not classic. But not terrible either. Not as bad as Cake. Billy Joel has no sense of humour either.

electric sound of jim, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

oh - the 5 were the kewlest EVER! fievel goes west / bugsy malone with "thirtysomething" plotlines for lyrics. robert sledge's bass playing ooh it makes me wanna kreem my pants. folds on his own is now dull and does not have production that sounds "a bit punky" does he want to be randy newman? that's a bad idea.

bob snoom, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I say they're both. I love smug. So classic. Clever, tongue-in-cheek pop. Plus, I met them and they were really cool AND they bowed out while they were still good so no embarassing downward slide. A band that actually did slow songs as good as their fast songs. What is not to love?

EdwardO, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hey, I actually fit in here!

My conversion to the dark world of music obsessivism was the first time I ever saw the video to "Battle of Who Could Care Less" on the TV. As soon as it came on, I was hypnotised by these three geeky Yanks dropping pop culture references like it was going out of fashion.

A friend dedicated that track to me on his radio show recently, and I just remembered the occasion vividly.

Folds is an amazing pianist, a great lyricst, and his voice... even when he does sound a bit like Kermit the Frog, it's in a good way.

Jessee and Sledge were great musicians as well, it's a shame that they're gonna spend their days in minor US college bands.

All three albums own you, as does "Naked Baby Photos".

They split on my 18th birthday. That ruined the entire day for me.

Judd Nelson, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

whaddabout fIVE fOR fIGHTING?

Sterling Clover, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like cake >
That said BFF and BF himself hae a talent for songwriting, an elegant presentation and this meloncholy that moves me . They represent a legitiamte angst that is slightly after adloscenec. Songs like brick are a perfect example of this. They are genuine i think and nothing like the gloopy joel or the arch cake .
ACE

anthony, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Somewhere along the line, the smugness started wearing off on me, probably around the time "Army" was released. It's only gotten worse since I think, as "Rockin' the Suburbs" seems to me like the smuggest song he's done. I still like the first half of Whatever and Ever Amen though.

Vinnie, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Standard old fart answer: loved the first album, esp Julianne, but it started to get more slick and more like the influences he had...who really needed another B. Joel or E. John when both had such a broad catalogue already? Thought Whatever was mostly good, but Reinhard Messner was just dull dull dull. Didn't even bother with the solo album after hearing the single.

Sean Carruthers, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oddly enough I dug out the BF5 lps last night for the first time in ages. Don't sound as good as I remember them, but god they were refreshing a the time. Progressively worsened as their career progressed, but Ben's solo LP from last year has some fabulous numbers on it (tho I hated the single too). OK the smugness always stuck in the throat, but what exactly is wrong with wanningtobe Billy Joel?

And what do Cake sound like?

hw, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

D.

adam, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Suddenly Tammy did it better, sez I. Death to Ben Folds!

Ned Raggett, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Though the production has gotten slicker over the years, I think Ben Folds' solo album included some of his best work yet. Remove that g--ddamned novelty track "Rockin' the Suburbs," and he REALLY would've had something special.

Ben Folds Five: Not quite "essential," but clever, self-deprecating songwriters. Aside from the piano, I don't quite catch the "Billy Joel wannabe" vibe here, either.

Mark Ahhhhh, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Captain Jack" could have come from "Rockin' The Suburbs". Great album, even so. "Fred Jones Pt.2" and "Zak and Sara" (sample lyric: "Visions of pills that put you in a loving trance/and make it possible for all white boys to dance") rank alongside his best work.

Judd Nelson, Friday, 15 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

three years pass...
How do you explain the amount of press this guy gets? Is he selling a lot of records? In my mind he seems like a songwriter that everyone agrees is just OK.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:28 (twenty years ago)

Blame Shatner.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:32 (twenty years ago)

How do you explain the amount of press this guy gets? Is he selling a lot of records? In my mind he seems like a songwriter that everyone agrees is just OK.
same goes voor Jack Johnson, btw...maybe being "just OK" is in fashion right now?

Eva van Rein (Gaia1981), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:49 (twenty years ago)

Lyrically: When he was being smug early on, he didn't subvert it enough or something...like he wore his most recent inspirations on his sleeve. Battle of Who Could Care less transcended it I think, as he was more poinintg out how he didn't even fit with the outcasts. Valid. When he was being genuine, it worked. Later, his smugness borderd novelty, which was just annoying.

Musically, he's a good songwriter melody wise. For those to say "who needs another...", the answer is I do. Easy enough. The rough edges of BFF seemed genuine, although many expect rough edges to be done soley by ruffians. The lack of rough edges on his solo worked are mostly miss, although occasionally the production can work for him.

I really only enjoy their first two albums as wholes. The rest of his/their catalog is s/d for me.

PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

ugh that article on him in that new magazine PASTE is horrible. Well every article in that magazine is horrible; smug, irritating, completely UNINTERESTING writing about people that heaps on the praise but doesn't give you any reason to believe it, their article on Yo La Tengo even put me off Yo La Tengo for a week! and Ben Folds forever!

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

How do you explain the amount of press this guy gets? Is he selling a lot of records? In my mind he seems like a songwriter that everyone agrees is just OK.

A lot of teenage BFF fans circa Whatever are now in their mid-20s, and working as record company and press people. Their cult is not huge, but influential.

I only really love Whatever, the rest never quite connected with me, but what a record it is. "Selfless Cold and Composed", "Kate", "Battle Of Who Could Care Less" really evoke that mid-90s angsty period for me in a way that more lyrically obtuse rock from that time (Nirvana, Pavement) doesn't. (Hah, can you tell I just read the S/FJ New Yorker piece about The Mountain Goats?). "Rockin' The Suburbs" is the only song of his that I can think of that feels genuinely smug and insincere, though it did make me chuckle in spite of myself.

Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...
I dug out the first album, which I used to listen to a lot as a teenager and then sold in a fit of "ARRGH NO MONEY!" desperation. I'm actually enjoying it a lot more now than I did at the time and I think Folds has been dealt a poor deal in that it's obvious he was signed at a time when labels were searching around for whatever was going to replace Britpop and the answer to that was quirky American pop-punk bands like Offspring, Placebo, and *ewww* Presidents of the USA, which he got lumped in with. Sure the album isn't classic all the way but listening to "Boxing", "Julianne", "The Last Polka", "Sports and Wine" and of course "Underground" you can hear excellent musicianship and lyricism being displayed. I liked select tracks off the second album but never checked it all the way through.

wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 18 September 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

"Boxing"'s a great song; can't understand why nobody else picked up on it.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 September 2006 13:55 (nineteen years ago)

yeh it's my favourite on there - i'd completely forgotten about it when i re-listened. don't even remember ever having heard it. a true tear-jerker.

wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 18 September 2006 14:01 (nineteen years ago)

Ben Folds is also a serious bad-ass piano player. I've always kind of wanted to hear him do some sort of ill-advised jazz side-project.

a naked Kraken annoying Times Square tourists with an acoustic guitar (nickalici, Monday, 18 September 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

Placebo's an American pop-punk band?

Roz (Roz), Monday, 18 September 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

Or a Geordie post-punk duo, depending on your age.

In Britain Ben Folds has tended to suffer from the after-effects of being labelled a "Chris Evans act."

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 18 September 2006 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

ah that's right. hm, chris evans might be the factor that put me off a lot of acts in 96.

Placebo may as well be an American Pop-Punk band for all I care.

wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 18 September 2006 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

"Boxing"'s a great song; can't understand why nobody else picked up on it.

No one loves Howard Cossell.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 18 September 2006 14:24 (nineteen years ago)

I actually grew right in Durham, NC (Ben Folds Ground Zero), and I can say without hesitation that Folds' stuff has aged way way way way way better than most of the other stuff I listened to when I was 13 or 14. I remember Matos comparing the Scissor Sisters to BF5 back in 2004, and I think Ta-Dah only makes the comparison more apt - both of the second albums are way more articulate and studied as "proper songs", but they also prove that by far the most interesting and engaging aspect of the first album was the way they sound like they were made in outright Attack Mode (q.v. "The Last Waltz", although even the less beat-u-up songs like "Philosophy" have some fire behind them).

That being said, my favorite Folds album is still Reinhold Messner by a comfortable margin. My record collection is full of albums I can trace directly back to that one.

James.Cobo (jamescobo), Monday, 18 September 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

BFF & BF were great in their time. Rockin the Suburbs is awful but not truly representative of his work. Battle of Who Could Care less is a classic. Also they were great to watch live & their music is fun to play. Listening to BFF gives me happy memories of my youth. HTH.

vingt regards (vignt_regards), Monday, 18 September 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

Underground, Philosophy, Jackson Cannery, Battle of Who Could Care Less, One Angry Dwarf Classic, most else Dud.

g00blar (gooblar), Monday, 18 September 2006 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

"Boxing"'s a great song; can't understand why nobody else picked up on it.

Bette Midler ain't nobody!

marc h. (marc h.), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 01:55 (nineteen years ago)

jumped the shark:

sometime on conan o'brien, or other late night talk show, singing "Not the same" off of the first solo album, and FREAKING OUT on the "you were not the same after that" part, when he did NOT deserve to do so.

Zachary Scott (Zach S), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 05:59 (nineteen years ago)

There was a different version of "Rockin the Suburbs" that he did for the basically crappy animated movie Over the Hedge that has far superior lyrics (IMO):

Let me tell y'all what it's like
Watching idol on a friday night
In a house built safe and sound
On indian burial ground
Sham On

We drive our cars everyday
To and from work both ways
So we make just enough to pay
To drive our cars to work each day

We're rocking the suburbs
Around the block just one more time
We're rocking the suburbs
Cause I can't tell which house is mine
We're rocking the suburbs
We part the shades and face facts
They got better looking Fescue
Right across the cul de sac

Hotwheels take rising stars
Get rich quick seminars
Soap opera magazines
40,000 watt nativity scenes
Don't freak about the smoke alarm
Mom left the TV dinner on

Yet we're rocking the suburbs
From family feuds to chevy chase
We're rocking the suburbs
We muscles in our face
We're rocking the suburbs
Feed the dog and mow the lawn
Watching mommy balance the checks
While daddy juggles credit cards

[THIS IS THE SHATNER SPOKEN WORD PART]

We're rocking the suburbs
Everything we need is here
We're rocking the suburbs
But it wasn't here last year
We're rocking the suburbs
You'll never know when we are gone
Because the timer lights come on
And turn the cricket noises on each night
Yeah, yeah, we're rocking the suburbs
Yeah, yeah, we're rocking the suburbs

a naked Kraken annoying Times Square tourists with an acoustic guitar (nickalici, Tuesday, 19 September 2006 12:36 (nineteen years ago)

Some great songs. Lots of fun. Great harmonies at times. Slightly underproduced. Still certainly no dud.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 20:34 (nineteen years ago)

Ben Folds is UNDERproduced?

Zachary Scott (Zach S), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 02:02 (nineteen years ago)

The first album also has the lovely "Where's Summer B?" which appears to be underappreciated since it hasn't yet been mentioned.

And "Alice Childress."

billstevejim (billstevejim), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 03:29 (nineteen years ago)

Ben Folds is UNDERproduced?

For their genre, yes. We are speaking of powerpop here, a genre that is supposed to have a slick and perfect Jellyfish-production.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 07:37 (nineteen years ago)

And even their most important influence, Todd Rundgren, had more detailed and perfect sound on his classic albums, in spite of those albums being released 25 years earlier.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 07:37 (nineteen years ago)

eleven years pass...

'Thank God it's you, you know your timing is impeccable... Some dude just knocked me cold and left me on the sidewalk, took everything I had...'

brand new universal harvester (dog latin), Friday, 4 May 2018 06:55 (seven years ago)


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