THE TONY WILLIAMS LIFETIME C/D

oh hey dom - you be in chicago june 7-10? ill be in town and looking to record shop/drink beers.

this thread has inspired me to use the "why don't you mean what you say" lines as my voicemail greeting. well, but let me think about it

Eh, not if you're looking for Tony Williams' Lifetime-- though I suppose there's some connection in that Buddy Miles occupies the drum seat for THIRD, while having earlier played with Lifetime's Larry Young on McLaughlin's DEVOTION.

Tony Williams Lifetime ? Three Man Army.

Brain fart. My bad.

Never heard (nor SEEN, even) Ego, but those first two are SO SO classic, and Tony's nonsinging is just fine. (Don't much care for the harmony vox on "Via The Spectrum Road", tho.) A clever innovation/inversion: Tony's "lead drumming" in "Something Special" while the two melodists handle the rhythm chores. Why can't most ego-tripping hotshot rock 'n roll drummers (or drummer/bandleaders, for that matter) adopt this democratic technique, allowing the other musicians to vamp and back them up while they bash away to their heart's content. Makes for more creative possibilites. Drum solos need not be tedium!

Major fucking DUD: The liner notes to '82s Once In A Lifetime comp. Dunno who wrote 'em, but the guy's a jerk, making all kinds of barely concealed snide anti-rock comments while purportedly celebrating the invention of jazz-rock. He manages to backhandedly dis Jack Bruce ("an adventurous bassist by [sniff] 'rock' standards"), Bob Dylan ("all hail Bob Dylan for [finger quotes] 'democratizing' rock singing") and even the Stooges & Sex Pistols! (Seems that they stole everything they know about punk directly from Emergency! Wow, you learn something knew everyday.) Sez that among other rock musicians, only Jimi Hendrix could've managed to make the successful leap to jazz-rock. (And you just know that the guy wouldn't have praised Hendrix if not for Miles' seal of approval, basically making it necessary.) Finally, as to why Lifetime never made the commercial breakthrough: "Most rock fans couldn't quite follow Lifetime's direction"! Man, what an asshole!

[Obviously, that rant has been years in the making, waiting for the perfect opportunity to be unleashed. 'Twas worth the wait! Thank you.]

3.5yr later still love the vocals

Ihated them and returned Emergency. Pro'ly a mistake tho...

Hurting, you missed your opportunity to mention Ted D.

69 is hurting?

no 69 was squarecoats

Hurting posted 3 years ago. Now he is Hurting 2.

He seems to only post on one thread these days: i got a new computer and i really need speakers for it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko2Ijbcammo

Anybody else heard any stuff by Spectrum Road, the Lifetime-tribute-supergroup? Cindy Blackman, Vernon Reid, John Medeski, Jack Bruce.

Downloaded the album but haven't listened to it yet. Recently heard the third Lifetime album, Ego, though, and that's pretty hot. It was reissued on CD in Japan a few years ago and is, um, findable online.

Just came across this from Brian Enos Twitter feed of all places – a Bill Laswell remix/expansion of Turn It Over that Verve decided not to release in 1999:

http://bigozine2.com/roio/?p=1650

It's pretty great.

that is cool!
(that twitter feed is not actually brian eno, by the way, just a confusingly named fan account)

Expansion aspect is great, but I'm on the fence about the remix. There's more clarity, and it's a little brighter, but I'm not sure that suits the record. I always liked its dark Fun House-esque production.

That handle is about as close to an "official" Brian Eno Twitter account as we're likely to get.

Agree to some degree about the mix tho it's pretty much of a piece with Laswell's 90s-era remix work on Miles' music and Santana. I know in the case of Lifetime and Miles, Laswell believed that the original records were recorded terribly – people are free to disagree but I know he felt that like guys like Macero (and whoever engineered Turn It Over for Polydor) had no idea how to record rock instruments. Also, some of these tracks are expanded so extensively that it's actually a little hard to compare them with the original – for instance, Xgau favorite "Right On" goes from >2 min. to over eight.

There is a great live set as a trio in 69 that shows that was probably their best line up. The addition of Bruce means there's less space to play around each other or something

I've heard some Tony Williams before, but I just got a vinyl copy of Turn It Over and damn if the vocals are not the worst thing ever. And I have a pretty high tolerance for flawed vocals. Love the music.

Yeah, I was skeptical when I read complaints beforehand, but when I finally checked them out, ugh. But Emergency! is still a stone-cold classic, and the terrible vocals on there account for a small fraction of what's a 70+ minute program.

O hell yes Emergency!, and both versions of Turn It Over are worth checking out. I've got a bootleg somewhere of the quartet in an NYC club, where really Bruce sounds like he's overloading the mix, or just about too---he's playing well, but sometimes it's soooo dense, like quivering solid heavy jello, not *bad* at all, though the trio is plenty heavy, dense and yet agile without him; they have more room to move. What the hell, you gotta hear it both ways. Williams made a bunch of records with various Lifetime and New Lifetime line-ups, incl. with Allan Holdsworth, and there are live boots from some of those tours, also McLaughlin and Young with Carlos Santana live sets. I have't heard their studio album, Love Devotion Surrender, but McLaughlin's Devotion, with Young and Buddy Miles and a good bassist whose name I always forget, is prob the best cosmic jazz-rock set not involving Miles or Tony.
Young's Lawrence of Newark is a trip too: he doesn't need a synthesizer, and neither does cellist Diedre Johnson or saxophonist Dennis Mourouse (okay, he does plug in sometimes). Also got Blood Ulmer, Pharoah Sanders, a lot of percussion but never too much. May have some abrupt endings early on, but hold onto your horsehead nebula for the homestretch/final third (it's only about 33 minutes, but action packed). He was as prolific as the other original Lifetimers, but this set is especially thread-relevant, boldness-wise.

Anybody heard Trio of Doom---Williams, McLaughlin, Pastorious--? Short-lived, one jam from the short-lived Havana Jazz Festival, and a few studio stabs, very eventually released as s/t album. Think I'll check the 'Tube (tomorrow, maybe).

Believe it, like Freedy Johnston, has a bad reputation.

This actually exists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNfy3Urhtsc

So the title credits clip is not the only thing from this session. Not sure what the misbehaviour that stopped transmission was. Doesn't appear to be in the performance.
& wonder how long the peoplevreleasing Beat Club stuff have had this. Thought it was a bit of a grail item for a load of people.
So has it just been discovered at the back of a cupboard?
I have a dream that when theyvinvent time travel somebody'll go back and stash things for later discovery somewhere they think will survive. Just to be subtle and not greatly disturb the timelinevlike. If that wete true do hope there's a lot morre stuff about to appear.

"Lifetime have behaved so badly and arrogantly in the studio that the work didn't lead to any presentable results and had to be cancelled."

Jack Bruce again?

This is an amazing discovery, but when you imagine what this would have sounded like coming through the average TV speaker in 1970, you can see why the technicians considered it unfit for broadcast at the time.

People have suggested that the performance was too sprawling to be cut down to bitesize pieces as they required.
Like I think it isn't easily neatly cut down to 6 minutes or whatever which I think is a duration I've seen from the time.
Do wonder if there is more going to appear. Am aware that when Lost Episodes was first appearing there were 20 minute sets possibly more unearthed.
But 10 minutes of it after years off the near sadistic dangling of the credits clip is a bonus I guess.

(xp) Why? It sounds fine to me.

I think the problem might indeed be the length of the pieces they played
- although, the famous Kraftwerk appearance from 1971 is one 11+ minute track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFzVv-5GZGs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRvJLb56cy4

Note Tony Williams looking at his watch at the end.

wonder if there has been a warning after the length of what the show is calling A Famous Blues and if the band is counting track length from the flub on and not including the previous couple of minutes. Which could tie in with one of the stories as to why the recording wasn't shown. sprawling song length like.

The track comes to a stumbling end too, just as it's starting to heat up, so definitely some clock watching going on there.

Liked to see Williams so casually flip his drumstick as needed to use the tip or the butt.

Was it Bruce's bass or vocal that caused them to restart?

so the 2 videos are going to be released on a Jack Bruce box set
https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/jack-bruce-smiles-and-grins-broadcast-sessions-1970-2001-4cd-2blu-ray-video-remastered-box-set/

holdsworth's playing on believe it ("fred"!) is superhuman

Bought (Turn It Over), Ego, and The Old Bum's Rush a few years ago for pretty cheap and enjoyed them all, but I've just now gotten around listening to the two albums by The NEW Tony Williams Lifetime and they're very FOR. ME. ...at least while I'm hunting a specific vibe this week. Don't think I'll end up owning these, but I'm glad they're out there for me to revisit from time to time.