Extreme METAL! C/D S/D

Yes, I'd say there's an aversion to male attitudes in bands like Manowar and Hammerfall but these are classic power metal bands from the 80s.

I also like this kind of stuff because it's getting away from the angsty whinyness of Linkin Park and sticking to the emotional yet energy-fueled style of old. There's also a "geeky" epic feel that I think everyone (secretly) likes about stuff like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings that comes through in the imagery of Bal Sagoth and Emperor. Though I make it sound bad, I find a lot of this imagery very inspiring.

The fact that it's extreme is rather refreshing. It manages to be fast and loud (and a lot of fun) without adhering to poppiness (like the nu-metal bands) or becoming "unmusical" (like noise etc.).

So to answer Minna's question, I woul say that yeah, it's a guilty pleasure for me as I gave up on hard rock a long time ago when I left my angry teen period but it's something I can share with certain people (as is common). Not sure about the gender question - I know that it does appeal to many women but I'm sure it is possibly a mostly male-orientated genre (unlike a lot of nu-metal).

Another question - would people say that this style of music could be counted as childish (I find a lot of bands - Blink182, SLipknot etc) to be very juvenile, though this style isnt for me.

After awhile I just got burnt out on the whole thing, especially when I realized that I could and did genuinely enjoy other styles of music. Certain aspects of the style just didn't work for me any more...it's generally monochromatic regarding dynamics (either you're OFF, clean guitar tone, or ON!!!) and textures (very rockist). Rhythmically it's all essentially the same feel (straight) and not many groups were doing any really cool stuff on that level. And of course 90% of it is focused on aggression, which gets old if it's all you listen to. I think a large part of it had to do with playing in a metal band for a good number of years and, besides getting into other kinds of music as result of wanting to extend my playing, just being sick of being so involved in a style of music that, broadly speaking, most people don't like at all. There's a scene, of course, but it's definitely more limited than a lot of styles. The guitarist/singer from that band moved on to punk rock, which made me realize that although punk and metal sometimes get grouped together, it's a much more populist thing and twice as easy to get gigs for.

There's probably 5 metal albums I still listen to.

In SF, people are just as likely to wear cardigans and MBV t-shirts and listen to this stuff than be long-haired Iron Maiden t-shirt sporting folk. A lot of the politics (esp. of the Norwegian Black Metal scene and of certain US metallers) is rather problematic (offensive/scary). I must admitt I do find it rather troubling and I am less likely to pick up a Darkthrone or Burzum album because of it. The more camp stupid, pseudo-Satan crap doesn't bother me at all, but killing folks, destroying churches, homophobia and flirting with (if not flat out advocating) Nazism (or some similar delusional Heathen/Pagan racial purist ideology) seems, to me anyway, pretty serious stuff and I'm not real keen on spending my money supporting it. And since guys like Panacea and Techno Animal and Fushitsusha are just as loud and cool sounding as Mayhem and have none of the thorny moral issues. . . well, whose albums would you buy? Of course, the Emperor guys aren't terribly nice so guess who's a big hypocrite? Oh, it's me.

Then after a few years of listening to a lot of this stuff - on my own - I realised that maybe it was not the most social thing to do and to be honest it got downright boring and two dimensional. I saw Morbid Angel last year and they were great theatre, but not something to do each week.

No one listenign to extreme will sustain it for too long. Dust down your Ivor Cutler and make it dark humour instead

i don't know if i'm on the right lines but what i was hoping for (based on what little i know about these bands) might be something like : celtic frost (is to mega therion or into the pandemonium the best?), sigh or amorphis.

RECOMMEND! NOW!

i was thinking of downloading an album called something like Imaginary Soundscapes - the one that's recommended on AMG.

is Dread Dreams better?

The more I listen to it, though, the better Gorguts's "From Wisdom to Hate" is, and I'm told that their "Obscura" is even better.

Oh, it definitely is. It doesn't even sound like the same band. All the best metal comes from Quebec.

-- bob snoom (bobwes...), April 3rd, 2002.

actually he does cowrite a lot of the songs, at least he did on their last album.

Our 20 Most Underrated Metal Albums
http://www.indieworkshop.com/articles.php?id=306

He certainly is.

Mike Scalzi of (Lord Weird) Slough Feg has a column on Invisible Oranges , and this month it is about extreme metal which you can read here

but this part stood out for me

The only possible conclusion I can come to is: I am judging extreme metal according to traditional Heavy Metal or traditional musical standards, and they simply don’t apply—i.e., it’s not about catchy songs, memorable riffs, vocal lines, inflections, etc. It’s either about something much more general, much more atmospheric (which is what they say about a lot of “ambient Black Metal”)—-and therefore any effort to break it down into its constituent elements misses the point, and/or it is enjoyed according to a completely different set of standards than Heavy Metal, Thrash Metal, etc. In fact I would not be surprised if someone who listened to a lot of industrial/noise or “new age music” would appreciate Death/Black Metal for reasons totally foreign to me as a metal fan. It seems to me that if you think of extreme metal as an extreme version of Heavy Metal, that is, as the next natural stage in metal evolution after Thrash Metal, that it still sounds ridiculous. If the people in the bands looked more punky and the band names were a little more artsy, perhaps it would not seem so mysterious. Is this the answer? Is extreme metal simply a different type of music altogether, not comparable to metal, but more to the likes of Throbbing Gristle, Einsturzende Neubauten, or even John Zorn?

I see Unperson has already posted in the comments section with some good points.

Do you think Scalzi is right in that line? I think I agree with him (even if the rest of the article is a bit old fart railing against the kids)

he looks like Chris Morris in the photo w/ the jukebox

pretty sure the boring-but-true answer to his question is basically just "some is, some isn't"

If extreme metal isn't a subgenre of rock, what is it then?

Can it be said, as a whole, to have intentions and overall coherency as a musical form?

I don't think the suggestion is that it's not a subgenre of rock, more that the lineage is more influenced from noise or jazz and some other subgenre rather than being straight from heavy metal. A lot of the thrash/grind bands came from punk anyway rather than trad metal, so it's not really unique that different styles have melded, the reason scalzi likes hardcore & metal is probably due to the structure of the songs with choruses as well as memorable riffs. With black metal, its obviously metal but it does take in other genres but the main difference is perhaps its not verse chorus verse like with the traditional bands Scalzi is talking about. It can be ,nowadays, more atmospheric too, less about the riffs. But perhaps someone with a musical or songwriting background can explain better what I am trying to say.

or not