Where do you draw YOUR irony line?

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What's so bad it's good, and what's so horribly awful it's unlistenable? Where do YOU draw the line? No meta-(meta-(meta-(meta-...)))answers, please.

― Shoes say, yeah, no hands clap your good bra. (goodbra), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

I draw it right here.

― I Hate You Little Girls (noodle vague), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

Irony is a safehouse for weak minds.

― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

You killed yourself with that last caveat, dude.

Anyway, Chromeo.

― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

"I don't even know anymore."

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

Oh right, I forgot that I actually have a mathematical formula for this.

I like ironic music. That said, it is possible for a piece of music to be too ironic, which point as a mathematical formula is: X/Y [is greater than] 1, where X represents the number of musical decisions made primarily because they seemed funny, and Y represents those that were not.

So let's do the math for, say, the first 20 seconds of Chromeo's She's In Control. In the X (funny) set, we have: cheesy spaceship landing noise, roto-toms, shaker, vocoded vocals, shout-out of the band name, said shout-out being vocoded. In Y, we have the hat, the snare, the bass line (eh), and the synth-bass (hmm). So X = 6 and Y = 4, with X/Y equaling 1.5. Too ironic. Can't argue with science.

I still kinda think this holds up.

― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

I loathe irony.

― Sean Braud1s (Sean Braudis), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

That formula cries out for some 3-d calculus to find the most ironic music possible.

― Shoes say, yeah, no hands clap your good bra. (goodbra), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

I know, I should apply some of my newfound graph obsession to that one.

― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

"So bad it's good" is a poor way of describing a real effect. The reaction (my reaction, anyway) is more accurately something like shock at audacity, or joy at gusto, or admiration at someone trying to bridge a vast technical gap by sheer willpower, or envy at lack of self-consciousness....

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

That formula cries out for some 3-d calculus to find the most ironic music possible.

HI DERE

http://www.harmarsuperstar.com/harmar_gallery/albums/album52/IMG_4947.jpg

― I Hate You Little Girls (noodle vague), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:41 (nineteen years ago)

har mar superstar

― gear (gear), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

haha xpost

― gear (gear), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

eppy's formula is good for tongue-in-cheek indie bullshit but totally fails to take into account the ironic appreciation (or lack thereof) of music made with non-humorous intentions.

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

The reaction (my reaction, anyway) is more accurately something like shock at audacity, or joy at gusto, or admiration at someone trying to bridge a vast technical gap by sheer willpower, or envy at lack of self-consciousness....

I think this sort of describes all the music I like these days, so either it's too broad or I only like music ironically. (For instance, I enjoy Sufjan Stevens in something like these terms.)

― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

Haha "music made with non-humorous intentions" can never be too ironic, at least for my money--that's why the formula works! Something can only be too ironic if the winking's too obvious.

― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:50 (nineteen years ago)

The closer your C/D ratio is to 1, the more perfect an example of supreme irony you are, I think.

― Shoes say, yeah, no hands clap your good bra. (goodbra), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

I think I meant it to be broad Eppy! I don't think irony is something you can separate easily from the rest of liking something. Unless it just means "pretending to like something", but "pretending to like something" does a fine job without needing the i-word.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:53 (nineteen years ago)

This is very true.

― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 25 May 2006 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not sure about my irony line, but I just discovered my cheesiness lies somewhere around the synth solo in Trans-X's "Living On Video".

― Herr Fahrstuhl (Herr Fahrstuhl), Thursday, 25 May 2006 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

I'd say about irony what Heraclitus said about anger --- whatever it gains for you it purchases with soul ----

irony kind of addresses the same situations as anger, right? "things are not right, incongruous, meaningless, but I'm gonna be plucky about it" ---- it's basically nihilistic ---

of the two I prefer anger.

― reacher, Thursday, 25 May 2006 15:43 (nineteen years ago)

shock at audacity, or joy at gusto, or admiration at someone trying to bridge a vast technical gap by sheer willpower, or envy at lack of self-consciousness....

I think this sort of describes all the music I like these days, so either it's too broad or I only like music ironically. (For instance, I enjoy Sufjan Stevens in something like these terms.)

I can imagine shock at audacity or joy at gusto applying to Sufjan, but the others, no way.

― Steve Goldberg (Steve Goldberg), Thursday, 25 May 2006 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

Loathing irony is the new irony.

― Ron E. Mexico, Thursday, 25 May 2006 17:22 (nineteen years ago)

I dislike irony in an entirely ironic way.

― max (maxreax), Thursday, 25 May 2006 17:26 (nineteen years ago)

irony was singlehandedly and forever killed by the tragic events of September 11th, 1975.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 25 May 2006 17:35 (nineteen years ago)

I suspect that many of the things that people claim to like ironically they actually like unironically, but the pretense of irony serves to insulate them from the appearance of having sappy or banal taste.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 25 May 2006 17:45 (nineteen years ago)

o. nate OTM

You know, I "like" this thread, but I'm much cooler than it is, nod wink, etc.

― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 25 May 2006 17:55 (nineteen years ago)

art brut

― darin (darin), Thursday, 25 May 2006 17:59 (nineteen years ago)

Nothing is "so bad it's good." Good is good, the rest is a largely irrelevant matter of the author's intent.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Thursday, 25 May 2006 18:05 (nineteen years ago)

Nothing is "so bad it's good." Good is good, the rest is a largely irrelevant matter of the author's intent.

I agree. Although I think something can be so bad it's funny; in that case I can get enjoyment out of it from laughing at it, but I don't think it's good by my standard criteria for good.

― Steve Goldberg (Steve Goldberg), Thursday, 25 May 2006 18:08 (nineteen years ago)

"I suspect that many of the things that people claim to like ironically they actually like unironically, but the pretense of irony serves to insulate them from the appearance of having sappy or banal taste."

Why, o nate, that's the Schaupenhauer approach to irony, isn't it?

Weirdly enough, ILM has killed a lot of "irony" for me, in that I now just like things that I like that I would have previously sworn off because they didn't match up with my fascist view of what "good music" was.

But for me, the too ironic point comes from the twee side. I like good pop music. Why can't twee folks just admit that they want to make good pop music without trying to dress it up in self-aware pretentious psuedo-naivete and ineptitude?

― js (honestengine), Thursday, 25 May 2006 18:16 (nineteen years ago)

Wait, are we talking about liking music ironically or liking ironic music?

― mike powell (mike powell), Thursday, 25 May 2006 18:26 (nineteen years ago)

i am starting to suspect that things most people like "sincerely" they actually like ironically but are pretending to be "sincere" about

― tom west (thomp), Thursday, 25 May 2006 18:27 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.loudbassoon.com/entertainment/images/uroboros.jpg

― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 25 May 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

"Oh, I don't even know anymore." (courtesy Simpsons)

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Thursday, 25 May 2006 19:21 (nineteen years ago)

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