2006 Concensus Picks?

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So, okay, a lot people like the new Mission of Burma...but this is the first year in a while where there doesn't appear to be a pool of solid concensus albums. Usually by now there's a Kanye or a M.I.A. or whatever that everybody talks up and to death, but -- unless I missed it -- there's no comparable "event" record yet and nor is there one up ahead.

Discuss?

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 10:55 (nineteen years ago)

"Maneater"

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 10:59 (nineteen years ago)

Not read this week's Time Out then?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:00 (nineteen years ago)

"Nelly Furtado not as good as second hand book shops"

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:06 (nineteen years ago)

ILM has been accused of hivemindedness this year re 'Silent Shout'.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:29 (nineteen years ago)

Fishscale?

ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:30 (nineteen years ago)

Or perhaps The Drift?

ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:31 (nineteen years ago)

Um, a certain band's Rubies?

Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:35 (nineteen years ago)

Orchestra of Bubbles

"Crazy"

zebedee (zebedee), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:36 (nineteen years ago)

The Scritti album might have qualified but nobody seems to have got worked up about it one way or the other (I note it didn't even chart this week).

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:41 (nineteen years ago)

Offline here in London I've noticed a lot of love for the Raconteurs album and a growing word of mouth love for Hot Chip, much of it among people who declare that they don't normally like dance music.

Treblekicker (treblekicker), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:48 (nineteen years ago)

Any of it among people who don't work in the music business?

(I note with a chortle that the Hot Chip album failed to chart this week either)

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

Top 7

Burial
The Drift
Drowning in a Sea of Love
Silent Shout
Drum's Not Dead
Movements [Booka Shade]
Return to Cookie Mountain

Next Consensus

Triosk - The Headlight Serenade
http://www.posteverything.com/artists/release.php?id=14568
if Talk Talk or Bark Psychosis released this ILM would be all over it

Listen: to Triosk
http://www.myspace.com/triosk

Other Upcoming candidates

Junior Boys
Mastodon
DJ Shadow

the debut album from Cortney Tidwell
http://www.codaagency.com/cortney.html

When Cannibal Ox release their next album

DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:51 (nineteen years ago)

Hahaha, I think ILM is the wrong place to look for a consensus on the Racononteurs. At least a positive one.

Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

Racononteurs - RaCUNTers rubbish retro rawk rack off !

DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:05 (nineteen years ago)

if only Hot Chip had a vocalist like Cee-Lo perhaps they'd do better.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:06 (nineteen years ago)

racounteurs are about the worst band in history right now

hot chip isn't far behind

rizzx (Rizz), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:09 (nineteen years ago)

But we all love Wolfmother, right? Those guys bring the rock!

Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:19 (nineteen years ago)

No we do not, wrong.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:20 (nineteen years ago)

Any of it among people who don't work in the music business?

(I note with a chortle that the Hot Chip album failed to chart this week either)

I don't have any friends in the music business and I don't work in the music business myself. I mean, these are university educated late 20 somethings who largely live in West London and therefore I am prepared to admit are atypical, but It was just an anecdotal observation.

Treblekicker (treblekicker), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:22 (nineteen years ago)

Must say that "Steady As She Goes" is one of the strongest Supergrass singles for a long time.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:24 (nineteen years ago)

another contender for worst band ever

rizzx (Rizz), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:25 (nineteen years ago)

...so tell us what you like rizzx?

Treblekicker (treblekicker), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

ok, a mid year top 5

0. Scott Walker - The Drift
1. OM - Conference of the Birds
2. Magik Markers - A Panegyric to the Things I Do Not Understand
3. Liars - Drum's Not Dead
4. Comets On Fire - Avatar
5. Hototogisu - Prayer Rug Exorcism

these are all records I know I'll play next year, and the year after. maybe even 2 years from now...

rizzx (Rizz), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:37 (nineteen years ago)

maybe even 3 years from now

...i meant

rizzx (Rizz), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:38 (nineteen years ago)

Neko Case - Fox Confessor?

Vornado (Vornado), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:42 (nineteen years ago)

who the fuck are mission of burma?

albums - booka shade, ellen allien and the knife
singles - nelly furtado and xtina

The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:49 (nineteen years ago)

if you don't agree with the consensus there you're basically completely wrong.

The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:50 (nineteen years ago)

I heard something from the Knife album the other day - not very good, I didn't realise they had an Einar though!

Like the new Xtina, and "Maneater" but not "Promiscuous Girl".

Like the Ellen Alium I've heard. About to buy it and Scritti.

That's about it for me and this thread.

Consensus = LORDI.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:53 (nineteen years ago)

who the fuck are mission of burma?

-- The Lex (alex.macpherso...), June 7th, 2006

Aren't you up on that Trap Hop?

ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:53 (nineteen years ago)

US rock band

Mission of Burma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_of_burma

DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:53 (nineteen years ago)

I've gone off Lordi a bit.

I heard some of that Booka Shade album on XFM on Sunday night. Wasn't that knocked out by it.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:56 (nineteen years ago)

The Booka Shade is good for quality control reasons - still a problem with far too many electronic albums IMHO.

Treblekicker (treblekicker), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:08 (nineteen years ago)

"Quality control reasons" mean nothing to me. What is still a problem with far too many electronic albums IMHO is the inability of critics to review them properly.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:13 (nineteen years ago)

Finney's Pitchfork review at least gives me a clear idea of what to expect, but as I'm not naturally sympathetic towards that brand of dance music I doubt I'll investigate further.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

It's a bad year, but Neko Case made a great record.

kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:15 (nineteen years ago)

I'd say there's some kind of concensus forming around the Knife album. Not sure whether it's on ILM or not, but I keep being surprised by the people I find enjoying and talking about the record

sovietpanda (sovietpanda), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:37 (nineteen years ago)

Um, Neko Case, Neko Case, Neko Case....


and The Knife, to a lesser degree.

Tronid K (tronidk), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:39 (nineteen years ago)

"Quality control reasons" mean nothing to me. What is still a problem with far too many electronic albums IMHO is the inability of critics to review them properly.

Very true!

Do you think that critics as a whole ever develop a vocabulary that describes touse and hechno as well as pazz and jop? :) You would've thought by now it wouldn't be a problem.

I dunno - it's just as a consumer I've bought far too many dance music records over the years with far too many duff tracks. The old three slabs of vinyl that could make one ace 12" phenomenon.

Treblekicker (treblekicker), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:40 (nineteen years ago)


xtina? which one? is there a thread?

sorry but god i'm really struggling without a radio. 15 minutes of jo whiley on someone's 'ghetto blaster' on the bus this morning was like a message beamed from another planet.

pisces (piscesx), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

Christina Aguilera's new single 'Ain't No Other Man'

it is AWESOME.

permanent revolution (cis), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

I just don't get that Knife record at all.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

I was underwhelmed by Neko Case after all the raves it got here. But I'll give it another go.

zebedee (zebedee), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

heh, the only real ILM consensus so far this year is that everyone hates that Sandi Thom thing

zebedee (zebedee), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 14:00 (nineteen years ago)

T.I.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

How about that Midlake, eh?

Steve Schneeberg (Steve Goldberg), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

xpost It's because you don't understand electronic music, Marcello.

Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

There has been a lot of talk about the Danielson album, I like it.

silence dogood (catcher), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

Scott Seward hopefully OTM.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 14:46 (nineteen years ago)

Singles - "Crazy Frog" by Kidz Bop Kids

Tape Store (Tape Store), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

"Quality control reasons" mean nothing to me. What is still a problem with far too many electronic albums IMHO is the inability of critics to review them properly.

This is an extraordinary thing to say. Is your responding and feeling for something really so inhibited by the various articles of criticism around it?

matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 14:59 (nineteen years ago)

One weird thing about this year is that it's been particularly strong for alt. countryish solo records from girls in popular indie bands.

Jenny Lewis made Rabbit Fur Coat, Neko Case made Fox Confessor, and now Amy Millan made the exquisite (fuck pfork's bratty review) Honey from the Tombs.

kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:08 (nineteen years ago)

Do you think that critics as a whole ever develop a vocabulary that describes touse and hechno as well as pazz and jop? :) You would've thought by now it wouldn't be a problem.

I think it's likely that electronic music just doesn't need criticism in the same way as your former axis which is centered around vocal music and contains ideologies as a matter of tradition (spines of dylan, punk, etc) and electronics is insensible, incantationary and functional.

matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

OK. What about classical & jazz? I know they're not so functional but nevertheless...

Treblekicker (treblekicker), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

Matthew, I don't follow how one musical form can "need criticism" and another not.

Steve Schneeberg (Steve Goldberg), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

As noted upthread, Fishscale looks like the best reviewed thus far (and best selling as far as these things go).

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

OK then criticism can make a more pertinent contribution to ideological/vocal music than incantationary/instrumental music, because it uses some of the same techniques, it uses words. Maybe attracts, rather than needs.

matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

Herbert's Scale anyone?

The Drift
Rubies
Drum's Not Dead

I don't think very many people are going to care about Comets On Fire's "Avatar" except for Rizzx and I.

The Knife album is good only so far as they've developed a fairly unique tonal approach and production style, particularly with the vocal manipulations, but the songs sure don't stick with me.

Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

I think it's the association of ideology strictly with vocal music that doesn't make sense to me. I think don't think music with vocals has to express a particular ideology, and I think that music without vocals can certainly be ideological.

It's an interesting argument that music with words invites a response with words while music without words doesn't; I suppose reviews of instrumental music could be expressed with rhythms and pitches. But that doesn't strike me as very practical.

Steve Schneeberg (Steve Goldberg), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:44 (nineteen years ago)

I would expect a review made i pitches and rhythms is a bit of music made under the spell of another and is usually a more worthwhile response.

matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

Well, I'd certainly be interested in hearing something like a review-composition. Perhaps it could supplement a word-based review?

Steve Schneeberg (Steve Goldberg), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

I honsetly think that sounds dreadful.

matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

I heard something from the Knife album the other day - not very good, I didn't realise they had an Einar though!

haha their einar is the same as their bjork! (in that most of the time i think karin dreijer just pitches her voice down)

The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

One weird thing about this year is that it's been particularly strong for alt. countryish solo records from girls in popular indie bands.... Neko Case made Fox Confessor

Neko Case was making country albums before she was ever in the New Pornographers, and Fox Confessor is the least country of any of them.

kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:02 (nineteen years ago)

don't think very many people are going to care about Comets On Fire's "Avatar"

I expect pitchfork and the like to be creaming their pants over Avatar, or else...

rizzx (Rizz), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

I would like to think so, and after looking at the track record Comets On Fire has had with P-Fork reviews, you'd think Avatar would follow suit.

Comets on Fire: Comets on Fire
[Alternative Tentacles; 2003] Rating: 8.2

Comets on Fire: Field Recordings from the Sun
[BaDaBing!; 2002] Rating: 8.0

Comets on Fire: Blue Cathedral
[Sub Pop; 2004] Rating: 8.5

Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:28 (nineteen years ago)

T.I.

yeah at least among people who have commented on it, that seems pretty consensual. less detractors even than fishscale. also has a pretty strong consensus among paid-in-print critics (altho did rolling stone really give it 2 stars like someone said? really?).

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

I honsetly think that sounds dreadful.

Ha! Well is that not what you were advocating, then? I was just trying to give your idea benefit of the doubt.

Steve Schneeberg (Steve Goldberg), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

And critics say...

Tape Store (Tape Store), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:58 (nineteen years ago)

(I think that means the correct answer is Thursday -- A City by the Light Divided)

Tape Store (Tape Store), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:59 (nineteen years ago)

(altho did rolling stone really give it 2 stars like someone said? really?).

yes

deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 17:23 (nineteen years ago)

The Top 3, thus far (like I would even know):

1. El Perro Del Mar - s/t
2. Love Is All - Nine Times That Same Song
3. Ariel Pink - House Arrest

hank (hank s), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

T.I.

yeah at least among people who have commented on it, that seems pretty consensual.
__________________________________________
Kevin W gave it a 0:
This cd is a little too hyped because it is so whack t hat when I heard it I took a dump on it, cause it was the worst rap cd I had ever heard in my entire life. T.I. needs to get a real job instead of clucking too much and having 30 kids with this one girl from Atlanta who has been clucked so many times that her clussy is 8 inches wide...anyway this cd is NOT AS GOOD AS GHOSTFACE'S BECAUSE his raps arent as good as ghostface's but his productions is better than his. T.I. is too mainstream and white people are gonna be all over his nallots abd he is going to end up like 50 cent and be the wackest rapper ever once whittee starts liking him. Th

Marmotdeth (marmotwolof), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

Here's that Rolling Stone review:
http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/9486084/review/9597773/king

Marmotdeth (marmotwolof), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 20:16 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, Ghostface. Destroyer might be this year's Hold Steady - big in certain sectors but still a bit under-the-radar overall (I eagerly await their NPR segment, narf narf). As far as singles, "Crazy" seems to be the only real consensus-builder yet, right?

Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 20:18 (nineteen years ago)

- The Knife
- Ellen Allien
- Ariel Pink's Haunted Grafitti (though technically it's a reissue of a CD-R)
- Ghostface
- TI

And while I hate to break it to all of you Dan Bejar fanatics, Rubies is the least talked-about talked-about album of the year-- as in, critics and fans talk about it a lot. No one else does (thank God). Also, I don't know a single person who has heard let alone actively listened to ...Cookie Mountain. And I'm a college student who watched TVOTR explode at the beginning of my freshman year. Additionally, I've heard the album, and it is, without any reservations, one of the more boring albums I've heard in recent memory.

Finally, Booka Shade is much too divisive.

trees (treesessplode), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 20:34 (nineteen years ago)

Haha, ah yes, as opposed to the wide interest in Ariel Pink.

Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

I was under the impression that the new TVOTR album that everyone's had for like, half a year now contained some demo tracks that have since been reworked and fleshed out. If this is true, maybe the album isn't boring after all. Here's hoping.

cosmo vitelli (cosmo vitelli), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 21:16 (nineteen years ago)

Am I the only one completely underwhelmed by that TV on the Radio band? And am I the only one who thinks that Destroyer guy's stuff sounds like bad Robyn Hitchcock?


Anyone......?

Tronid K (tronidk), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 23:31 (nineteen years ago)

Haha, ah yes, as opposed to the wide interest in Ariel Pink.
-- Eppy (epp...), June 7th, 2006.

Eppy, baby, I think you've known me long enough to know that I can be a sarcastic fuck, too. I choose not to war.


PS- DAN BEJAR SUCKS.

trees (treesessplode), Thursday, 8 June 2006 00:42 (nineteen years ago)

Destroyer and Fishscale are so far the best bets for album of the year. But I expect Thom Yorke's record to get up there as far as end of the year lists go. Also Marit Larsen, perhaps the Pipettes as well? Shame about that Johnny Boy album, though.

Harrison Barr (Petar), Thursday, 8 June 2006 02:59 (nineteen years ago)

And while I hate to break it to all of you Dan Bejar fanatics, Rubies is the least talked-about talked-about album of the year-- as in, critics and fans talk about it a lot. No one else does (thank God). Also, I don't know a single person who has heard let alone actively listened to ...Cookie Mountain. And I'm a college student who watched TVOTR explode at the beginning of my freshman year. Additionally, I've heard the album, and it is, without any reservations, one of the more boring albums I've heard in recent memory.

Finally, Booka Shade is much too divisive.

-- trees (meltingglacier...) (webmail), June 7th, 2006. (treesessplode)

I think those comments regarding TVOTR and Destroyer are OTM, and I hate to break it to you, but the exact same applies to the first three on your list. It's only a certain subsect of music fans that are really digging Ellen Alien, Ariel Pink, and The Knife. Especially The Knife. It's not even available yet in the US, is it?

like murderinging (modestmickey), Thursday, 8 June 2006 03:19 (nineteen years ago)

I can't decide if Avatar is the best Comets record or the worst.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 8 June 2006 04:07 (nineteen years ago)

It's not even available yet in the US, is it?

ITunes. Almost since the original release date, I think.


Open up the chests of all our best men...We don't demand villainry-- we demand a new dawn.

trees (treesessplode), Thursday, 8 June 2006 06:10 (nineteen years ago)

xpost It's because you don't understand electronic music, Marcello.
-- Eppy (epp...), June 7th, 2006.

Wrong. It's because I like singers who can sing.

"Quality control reasons" mean nothing to me. What is still a problem with far too many electronic albums IMHO is the inability of critics to review them properly.

This is an extraordinary thing to say. Is your responding and feeling for something really so inhibited by the various articles of criticism around it?

-- matthew james (action_Respok...), June 7th, 2006.

Your last sentence was gibberish, as is the expression "Quality control reasons" in the context of a review. Here's my twelve quid; persuade me, in layman terms, why I should spend it on this record. Simple, really, isn't it?

I think it's likely that electronic music just doesn't need criticism in the same way as your former axis which is centered around vocal music and contains ideologies as a matter of tradition (spines of dylan, punk, etc) and electronics is insensible, incantationary and functional.

-- matthew james (action_Respok...), June 7th, 2006.

That's avoiding the real reason, which is that the majority of music critics are English Literature and/or philosophy graduates and are therefore capable only of assessing music in terms of its lyrical content, being by and large musically illiterate, so they cannot explain the mechanics of why a piece of music works musically.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 June 2006 06:22 (nineteen years ago)

Marcello, you often write v. well about electronic music, what do you consider yourself to be doing particularly different to other major dance music critics? Cos i would have thought there's a lot of dance music critics who understand (consciously or intuitively) that Lit Crit ain't gonna work - the issue is more whether they are a good writer and/or have good taste per se.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 8 June 2006 07:00 (nineteen years ago)

Haha Tim, I'm not a major dance music critic so it's unfair to ask me. As an interested punter, though, some basic description of the music would be useful rather than endless cognoscenti references because I look at what people have said about, say, the Breakage album on Dissensus and I'm still in a quandary in "what's it like, should I buy it or not" terms.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 June 2006 07:15 (nineteen years ago)

Also, not being a major dance music critic I'm not on any dance music mailing lists so the CDs don't get sent through to me :-(

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 June 2006 07:15 (nineteen years ago)

the expression "Quality control reasons" in the context of a review.

OK, but I'm not talking about the review (which I agree is meaningless) - let's be honest, these days for me, the review is about telling me what tracks I should download before I decide whether to buy the album.

I'm talking about quality control issues on the actual record. The best albums for me are the ones without duff tracks. Maybe that's an overtly novelistic way of looking at things and there are exceptions - the second Tortoise album for example (DJed and preciously little else gets listened to) but yeah, in a critical context it is meaningless. But that wasn't my meaning...

Totally agree about the overly logocentric nature of much music criticism. Too many albums with clever lyrics and boring music. Possibly a reason for the canonisation of Bob Dylan?

Treblekicker (treblekicker), Thursday, 8 June 2006 07:29 (nineteen years ago)

The major reason, I used to think...but I'm revisiting his back catalogue in some depth at the moment, and blow me if I don't think the music content is that boring. It's not new in the sensationalist sense, but you couldn't really imagine his words divorced from music and delivery.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 June 2006 07:36 (nineteen years ago)

"Haha Tim, I'm not a major dance music critic so it's unfair to ask me. As an interested punter, though, some basic description of the music would be useful rather than endless cognoscenti references because I look at what people have said about, say, the Breakage album on Dissensus and I'm still in a quandary in "what's it like, should I buy it or not" terms. "

I think that's more an issue with a certain type of music discussion - I think it's presumed on the Breakage thread that you won't be reading unless you're already deep into contemporary d&b breaks revivalism.

I imagine that if I subscribed to the kosmiche mailing list or some free jazz or heavy metal mailing list I'd run into the same problem almost immediately.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 8 June 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)


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