"Judy in Disguise (with Glasses)"

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Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 17:17 (nineteen years ago)

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:y56feacv-KQIbM:wings.avkids.com/Book/Sports/Images/discus_02.gif

DAVE, for #1 Hits of yesterday and today! (dave225.3), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

Yay Silicon Teens.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 17:21 (nineteen years ago)

TRUE STORY: John Fred wrote this song about his then-girlfriend Judy Sheinlein, who would go on to eclipse her beau's fame as JUDGE JUDY!

Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 17:25 (nineteen years ago)

often misheard as Judy In This Guy's Glasses

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 17:29 (nineteen years ago)

Or Judy in Da Skies (with glasses)

DAVE, for #1 Hits of yesterday and today! (dave225.3), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 17:30 (nineteen years ago)

Judy and the Dream of Asses

Steve Schneeberg (Steve Goldberg), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 17:35 (nineteen years ago)

What's up with the bridge?! Totally incongruous with the rest of the song.
Come to me tonight
Come to me tonight

Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 17:43 (nineteen years ago)

That bridge sounds like Boyce and Hart.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 17:53 (nineteen years ago)

Lemonade pie? WTF?
All comments aside, I love this song.

Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

As I have written elsewhere, former Louisiana State (or wherever) basketball star John Fred and his Playboy Band, who came from Shreveport and parodied the Beatles, clearly later turned into the Residents, who came from Shreveport and parodied the Beatles. (Also, this is one of the best songs ever made. And the album's good, too. I think the song called "McHenal Riot" or something like that had Yardbirds-style goth Gregorian chants in it, or something like that.)

xhuxk (xheddy), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 18:03 (nineteen years ago)

john fred in 2001:

http://cdbaby.com/cd/johnfred

xhuxk (xheddy), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

Great song! I googled the lyrics, cuz I never knew half the words to this before now. Lemonade pie, or icebox pie, is common in the Southern US, but "Chilly sweet sparrow with guise," WTF?

Judy in disguise, well that's what you are
Lemonade pie with a brand new car
Cantalope eyes come to me tonight
Judy in disguise, with glasses

Keep a-wearing your bracelets and your new rah rah
Cross your heart with your living bra
A chilly sweet sparrow with guise
Judy in disguise, with glasses

Come to me tonight, come to me tonight
I've taken everything in sight
Unzipper the strings of my kite
Judy in disguise, hey that's what you are
Lemonade pie, hey got your brand new car
Cantalope eyes come to me tonight
Judy in disguise, with glasses

Come to me tonight, come to me tonight
I've taken everything in sight, unzipper the strings of my kite
(Oh, Uh oh, Uhhh)
Judy in disguise, what you aiming for
A circus or a holiday, that's what you are
You make me laugh about you
I guess I'll just take your glasses

Daniel Peterson (polkaholic), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 18:43 (nineteen years ago)

I ruined that song for myself trying to download the exact great version I heard on the radio. There are at least 4 recordings. I'm pretty sure I downloaded about 6. There are subtle differences in instrumentation and production values, not to mention the singing!

make sure you get the right one! ruin the song for yourself by comparing for hours!

Uri Frendimein (Uri Frendimein), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 18:45 (nineteen years ago)

TRUE STORY: John Fred wrote this song about his then-girlfriend Judy Sheinlein, who would go on to eclipse her beau's fame as JUDGE JUDY!

I demand documentation

The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

Was this song written in response to Lucy in the Sky..?

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 7 June 2006 20:07 (nineteen years ago)

I believe so. Follow-up "Hey Hey Bunny" is also hot.

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 20:21 (nineteen years ago)

So where do John Fred and his Playboy Band fit, genre-wise? I stick them with the Swingin' Medallions (and the Soul Survivors? Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels? Young Rascals? All of whom were less Southern but maybe not so much?) in the "soul-influenced frat-rock" category in my head, but would anybody have classified them with those bands at the time, assuming anybody would have classified them at all? (I mean, even "garage rock" wasn't an actual category then, from what everybody tells me.) Thing is, "Judy in Disguise" seems somehow *artier* (or just less blatantly tossed-off-seeming) then most of the stuff those other bands did, right? So maybe its closest relative is "Let It All Hang Out" by the Hombres, Southerners with lyrics at least as consciously off-the-wall? (Where were the Human Beinz from?) (Joel Whitburn says...Cleveland!) Though I assume they all got played at school dances, which may be all that matters. (Also, how typical was "Judy in Disguise" for John Fred? Inasmuch as I remember the album it's on, I'd guess not very. Am I wrong?)

xhuxk (xheddy), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 20:42 (nineteen years ago)

..less Southern SO maybe not so much

...THAN most of the stuff those other bands did

xhuxk (xheddy), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 20:46 (nineteen years ago)

Were the Hombres considered "Tex-Mex?" The record "Let It Out" reminds me most of is Archie Bell's "Tighten Up."

I don't know what the heck genre "Judy in Disguise" is. Seems less "frat-rock" to me than Swingin' Medallions or "Farmer John" or something.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 21:39 (nineteen years ago)

What the heck genre was "Lightning Strikes" by Lou Christie, while we're at it? Seems like there were a lot of wild cards.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 21:41 (nineteen years ago)

Lou Christie: Same genre as Four Seasons (whatever that was).

Hombres: Not Tex-Mex at all in their sound (unlike Sam the Sham, ? and the Mysterians, Sir Douglas), just in their clothes and name.

Charles Joseph Tarcisius Eddy (xheddy), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 21:47 (nineteen years ago)

And the record "Let It Out" reminds me of most is "Subterranean Homesick Blues" (but the Hombres are better for dancing than Dylan).

oops I meant xhuxk (xheddy), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 22:00 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but the groove is kind of like "Tighten Up." They had that organ, but I guess 'Tex-Mex' is more frat rock and less Archie Bell (though Archie was from Texas ... ).

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 22:06 (nineteen years ago)

I've talked about this song/album too, before. the album is pretty great, my copy has this ancient "includes Judy in Disguise with Glasses" with "with Glasses" inside a pair of glasses.

I lump them in with not only the Box Tops (they do Penn/Oldham song, "Out of Left Field" as well as "She Shot a Hole in My Soul" which the BTs also did) [frat-soul-pop with its hipness factor being that "they do cool soul-music covers" so kinda like that whole Carolina Beach-Music aesthetic, except JF were residents of Louisiana]) and with any number of vocal groups like Harpers Bizarre or Spanky & Our Gang. Basically vocal groups who got psyched-out post "Revolver"/"Sgt. Pepper." And also like the Sir Douglas Quintet. JF were far more baroque and the joke was basically that there they were, posing for a picture with their matching uniforms and tubas, and behind them were the familiar hanging-moss LSU trees. They all look like they're stoned or getting ready to get stoned or drunk.
Relaxed about the whole thing.

Anyway, it's a really good album, every song is some kind of off-kilter thing, some drollery, and easily as good as 10cc or someone like that from the song titles alone: "Most Unlikely to Succeed," "Agnes English," "Judy in Disguise" and the killer, "AcHenall Riot."

What's great about "Judy in Disguise" is how it treats the overdone pop of the Beatles as ridiculously easy, the bass line is like a beginner's version of a soul bass line. To me, this is about as inspired as some of the tropicalist stuff being done at exactly the same time in another hot climate.

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 22:18 (nineteen years ago)

As far as musical namesakes (almost) go, not bad.

John Fredland (jfredland), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 23:37 (nineteen years ago)

"I've taken everything in sight" ?

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 8 June 2006 07:38 (nineteen years ago)

Speaking of the "tropicalist stuff": Rogerio Duprat does a fantastic cover version on his album (with car horns and lugubrious trombones).

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 June 2006 07:49 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, Marcello, I have that Duprat record. his take on the Cowsills' "The Rain the Park" is also aces. My copy of "A Banda Duprat" or whatever it is is the El version, which is all fucked-up sonically. I hear Universal is maybe putting out a new version of this?

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Thursday, 8 June 2006 12:34 (nineteen years ago)

Be nice if they did. Haven't seen anything about it on this month's Universal mailing list but will keep interested parties posted.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 8 June 2006 12:36 (nineteen years ago)

"Unzipper the strings of my kite"? I'm hearing "Except for the strings of my kite."

And considering Judge Judy is from Brooklyn and never lived in Louisiana (Fred's turf), and that she was married when the Fred song was written, I'm not quite buying that she was the Judy that was in disguise.

Dan Heilman (The Deacon), Thursday, 8 June 2006 14:23 (nineteen years ago)

when i was a kid i had this idea that this song was about some mysterious adult stuff that i'd understand when i got older. i guess i'm not old enough yet.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 8 June 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

xpost Tell it to Snopes, Maaaaan!!!

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 8 June 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

Lou Christie: Same genre as Four Seasons (whatever that is)

New Jersey Italian machismo in a high-pitched voice p'raps?

Who Are You... The Nerve... I Wanna Get Out, I Wanna Get Out (Dada), Thursday, 8 June 2006 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

Wasn't Lou Christie from Pittsburgh or somewhere? But yeah: Italian Catholic tough guys singing like total girls. What I don't get is: Did their fans think they sounded tough, or sissified? Confusing!

xhuxk (xheddy), Thursday, 8 June 2006 15:22 (nineteen years ago)

Walk Like A Man, Sing Like A Girl

Who Are You... The Nerve... I Wanna Get Out, I Wanna Get Out (Dada), Thursday, 8 June 2006 15:23 (nineteen years ago)

The girls couldn't get enough of him singing like a girl.

When I was very young and Lou Christie was in the charts I went under the severely mistaken impression that it was Lou Costello.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 9 June 2006 08:40 (nineteen years ago)

Ha ha, he was a bit of a hunk, Lou

Who Are You... The Nerve... I Wanna Get Out, I Wanna Get Out (Dada), Friday, 9 June 2006 08:46 (nineteen years ago)

His 1970 smash hit single "Hey Ab-BOTT!"

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 9 June 2006 08:57 (nineteen years ago)

I preferred him in his short-lived psychedelic group, The Susquehanna Hat Company

Who Are You... The Nerve... I Wanna Get Out, I Wanna Get Out (Dada), Friday, 9 June 2006 09:06 (nineteen years ago)

When he went on these package tours, I wonder if he kept asking his manager: "Who's on first?"

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 9 June 2006 09:25 (nineteen years ago)

Naturally.

Sons Of The Redd Desert (Ken L), Friday, 9 June 2006 12:17 (nineteen years ago)

Wasn't Lou Christie from Pittsburgh or somewhere? But yeah: Italian Catholic tough guys singing like total girls. What I don't get is: Did their fans think they sounded tough, or sissified? Confusing!

I always assumed that the appeal was that they looked like tough guys but had hearts of gold that could be divined through their singing. And as for the Four Seasons, women love it when men sing in harmony because it shows they're listening. (Did they have lots of male fans? I didn't think so, but maybe.)

Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Friday, 9 June 2006 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

i'm pretty comfortable in saying that this record is horrible. it's played a lot on chicago oldies stations (or was).

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:56 (nineteen years ago)

i mean the whole staccato

"judy in disguise. (bump) with gla-sses"

part is like the definition of a bad hook. to me, at least.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:57 (nineteen years ago)

i can however imagine a neat sergio mendes cover

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 9 June 2006 16:59 (nineteen years ago)

When I was very young and Lou Christie was in the charts I went under the severely mistaken impression that it was Lou Costello.
|Now I can't stop wondering if, Jacques Dutronc-style, Lou Castel ever made any records.

Sons Of The Redd Desert (Ken L), Saturday, 10 June 2006 00:23 (nineteen years ago)

TIM ELLISON: "Judy In Disguise" may remind you of "Tighten Up," but "Judy" was released first, I think...

Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Friday, 16 June 2006 02:54 (nineteen years ago)

CHUCK EDDY: John Fred did indeed fit into the "soul-influenced frat-rock" category...but that was with the earlier records. By the time they had their only national hit with "Judy In Disguise" in late '67, they were kinda easing into the "psychedelic bubblegum" thing (let's call it what it is), and milked that angle for a few more years.

Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Friday, 16 June 2006 02:58 (nineteen years ago)

Wasn't Lou Christie from Pittsburgh

Yup. And he remains huge there. I figure his success comes down to this: The older folks loves 'em some bel canto, or at least pretentions thereof, and the kids gave him cred 'cuz he sang about sex in "Rhapsody in the Rain."

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Friday, 16 June 2006 03:12 (nineteen years ago)

Lou Christie's last name is Sacco; yeah, Italian Catholic ("Lightning Strikes" him "again and again and again": thrill of desire and punishment); Richard Riegel knows a lot about him, and has met him, I think, and saw him perform not too long ago. (many of his best songs written by Twyla--can't think of her last name)(no, not Twarp). Yeah, I asked a couple of girls back then, "What the hell do yall it in that?" Meaning Lou, Four Seasons, the Vogues, etc (us guise despised). They said it was a sensitive style, greasers with heart.(And the Seasons did wear suits, so they were trying to go straight, honest). So now there's a hit musical about that, Italian Boy, featuring the music of Frankie Valli. Oh well, at least it was *amazingly, astoundingly* shitty, yet another curveball in the 60s. Edd, what's the name of the John Fred album you're describing?(xxhuxx, don't forget to mention that guy you were talking about, Butch Hornsby, who wrote for John Fred)

don (dow), Friday, 16 June 2006 03:15 (nineteen years ago)

But that's just based on my gut/kneejerk reaction at the time. I might like Lou now. But John Fred, Sir Douglas, the Hombres were instant faves. Mellencamp's video of "Let It All Hang Out" (Kim Basinger dancing with a huge fat biker) got me back into the whole thing, and now I suspect "LIAHO" was the basis of Martin Sheen's performance in Badlands, my favorite movie.

don (dow), Friday, 16 June 2006 03:26 (nineteen years ago)

>TIM ELLISON: "Judy In Disguise" may remind you of "Tighten Up," but "Judy" was released first, I think...>

No, I was saying "Let It Out" by the Hombres reminds me of "Tighten Up." Don't know which of those came first. Don, I think that album's called AGNES ENGLISH?

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 16 June 2006 03:42 (nineteen years ago)

Don, Twyla Herbert, right?

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Friday, 16 June 2006 07:34 (nineteen years ago)

Right. She was old enough to be his mother. Is she still around?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 16 June 2006 07:46 (nineteen years ago)

And she was suppsedly a gypsy... with red hair... and that's the extent of my knowledge about Twyla Herbert

Il mio nome e' Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 June 2006 07:56 (nineteen years ago)

I *like* the Four Seasons and Lou Christie. Always have.

By Don's request, this is from the rolling country thread last week:

so i've been listening to this 20-song 2004 compilation called *life and times* by a louisiana singer-songwriter named butch hornsby who apparently used to write songs (in the '90s i guess) for john fred, formerly of the playboy band fame. first nine tracks are identified as "malaco rough mix"es; not sure if that means he was making demos for the southern soul label, or recording in their studio (if they have one) or what. other stuff was apparently connected to a label (studio?) called deep south, and four songs are "mandeville bathroom session"s. anyway, the guy's pretty eccentric, a country soulster closest vocally to a young david allan coe (the similarity is most noticeable in "suddenly single"), but with a few wacko titles like "i ain't no chauffeur" and "don't take it out on the dog" and (my favorite so far) "rock bottom on romaine," which seems to concern being strung out in hollywood, and romaine rhymes with cocaine, so draw your own conclusions. except the liner notes allude, somehow, to hornsby meeting some kind of tragic end, and this bizarre cryptic part might be ABOUT romaine: "butch hornsby made people uncomfortable. tommy lorio tried to warn butch's wife carol. he use dried lettuce and food parts that were petrified upon his ceiling as a visible manifestation of that warning. carol didn't listen." what the? but carol's note (and john fred's) don't mention lettuce, and a google search to find out more left me high and dry.

actually there's also something about butch hornsby that reminds me of terry allen. (he even does a song called "the smithsonian," so there's a fairly good chance he appreciates art. "i have seen the universe," too.) and he sings way too good to just be a demo singer.

xhuxk (xheddy), Friday, 16 June 2006 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

What's up with the bridge?!

I feel like chicken tonight, feel like chicken tonight
I've eaten everything in sight, unzipper the strings of my kite
(Oh, Uh oh, Uhhh)

PappaWheelie 2 (PappaWheelie 2), Friday, 16 June 2006 13:24 (nineteen years ago)

I like chicken!
yeah, Don, the LP I have is "Agnes English." I suppose now I have to put it on CD, since I've been listening to it a lot since this thread appeared. Once I do, anyone who wants a copy, I will oblige.

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Friday, 16 June 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

Butch Hornsby: so, Chuck, is there any biographical info on the CD you have beyond what you've mentioned? I found a reference to his apparently 1975 album cut at Malaco, here, at a website for a Baton Rouge promoter named Johnny R. Palazzotto:

Palazzotto engineered a recording agreement with ABC Records in Los Angeles for Louisiana country-writer-artist Butch Hornsby, whose album was produced by Cyril Vetter at Malaco Studios in Jackson, MS. in 1975.


at any rate, I got to find out more about this guy.

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Friday, 16 June 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

Yes please, I'd like one of those Agnes English CDs, Mr.Edd sir!And xpost Carolina beach music is a remnant of the time (also thee tyme) when every club band (well, maybe not every country club band, but a lot of them too) had to include some soul music. Nowadays, you can beg off including rap, cos we know too well, that not everybody can rap. But if you could sing rock, you were expected to sing some soul. With some interesting carryover (for inst the r&b elements in Stooges and MC5, or Jeff Airplane, featuring D.C.-area's Jack and Jorma--the Southern migration aspect helped, but not required: Gene Pitney certainly had his own twist on Italian American Soul, and was from Conneticut, just down the freeway apiece from Frank Kogan and Rivers Cuomo)(in other words, not Southern atall!)

don (dow), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

Here's some xgau from 1968:

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/cdrev/johnfred-rs.php

Sang Freud (jeff_s), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:32 (nineteen years ago)

I still only really know Lou C. courtesy of Klaus N. But the little I've heard of Mr. Christie is way all right with me.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

xpost thanks for the xgau find, Sang. (He did like some of the later Box Tops album tracks, but those came out after this review, on Dimensions, I think). So, this Judy In Disguise LP is (mostly, or all?) the same as xpost Agnes English? "Fool around a little": an ancestor of Big Star and solo Chilton, sounds like. Let's not forget John Fred's version of "Sweet Soul Music": "Hats off to Pete Townsend yall/Singin' Tommy can you hear me yall/Oh, Ye-ah, oh-oh ye-ahh."

don (dow), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

>Butch Hornsby: so, Chuck, is there any biographical info on the CD you have beyond what you've mentioned?<

None at all. Tribute notes from Palazzotto, John Fred, Butch's wife Carol, and two people named Cyril E Vetter and Duke Bardwell, but, frustratingly, nothing to inform people about his life who don't already know about it. A couple more thoughts about the music, though: There's a definite rockabilly (as in Elvis and Jerry Lee) influence to some of the singing, but none of it really sounds like rockabilly per se; the closest it comes is a sound that I'd describe sort of as a darker and more confused version of the carnival rhythms in Freddie Cannon's "Palisades Park," maybe. (Hey, anybody who wants to talk about Freddie Cannon on this thread, go for it! He was great!) Also, Hornsby's bathroom sessions (whether the bathroom was actually in a mental hospital or not) are the most skeletal and hard-to-hear four cuts on the album, as you might expect. Outside of "Rock Bottom on Romaine," my favorite tracks are "Since You Run Out," "100% Chance of Getting Me Down," "I Ain't No Chauffer," and "Suddenly Single" (the latter of which has some Gary Stewart in its sound, too, I decided, though still more David Allan Coe in it.)

xhuxk (xheddy), Friday, 16 June 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

Ooh man, that Christgau thing. John Fred is real! Like Alex Chilton and the Hollies! Not like Tommy James or the Ohio Express!

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 16 June 2006 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

I think that's a misinterpretation of the Christgau piece. Read it again. He's saying John Fred is ambitious like Eric Burdon and Steve Winwood, not like Alex Chilton. This is 1968 remember; Big Star hadn't happened yet. By ambition, he's talking about the desire to replace filler with good songs, not some kind of quest for meaning and significance. In fact he criticizes the 1968-model Airplane and Stones for precisely the latter qualities. And for that matter in 1968 there probably weren't too many degrees separating the "realness" of the Hollies and Tommy James.

Sang Freud (jeff_s), Friday, 16 June 2006 23:00 (nineteen years ago)

Apparently no one here or on the rest of the internet hears it like I do, but I've always thought the line was rather clearly "come tickle the strings of my kite," a vaguely smutty line that helped make "Judy in Disguise" the third most uncomfortable oldie to listen to in my parents' company as a kid, trailing only "The Birds and the Bees" and "I Think We're Alone Now."

O-Keigh (O-Keigh), Saturday, 17 June 2006 00:45 (nineteen years ago)

That is certainly a better line!

don (dow), Saturday, 17 June 2006 00:49 (nineteen years ago)

It's still no "Louie, Louie" though.

nickn (nickn), Saturday, 17 June 2006 01:50 (nineteen years ago)

So the slighting of Tommy James had nothing to do with issues of authenticity and relevance?
And why exactly are the lyrics to "Judy in Disguise" OK, but not "Yummy Yummy Yummy?"

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 17 June 2006 07:33 (nineteen years ago)

>the third most uncomfortable oldie to listen to in my parents' company as a kid<

The one that disturbed me was "Come and Get It" by Badfinger: "If you want it, here it is, come and get it, but you better hurry because it's going fast." I wasn't sure what "it" was (sex? drugs?), but I was positive it was something I didn't want to think about.

xhuxk (xheddy), Saturday, 17 June 2006 11:04 (nineteen years ago)

Haha, Tim, wtf? All he says about Tommy James is that he makes bad albums. I'd wager that's less about "authenticty" and "relevance" and more about "not enough good tracks on the album." And all he says about the lyrics to "Judy In Disguise" is that they don't fit into either rock poetry or bubblegum tropes, which is only a value judgement on "Judy In Disguise", "Yummy Yummy Yummy" or rock poetry if you want it to be.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 17 June 2006 12:17 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know what this song is, but the title is now stuck in my head to the tune of 'Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds'.

chap who would dare to be a nerd, not a geek (chap), Saturday, 17 June 2006 12:21 (nineteen years ago)

Oh Daniel, you know that complaining about not enough good tracks on albums (esp. when you've got an album out with such whoppers as "Crimson and Clover" and "Do Something to Me" and "Crystal Blue Persuasion") was total early rockism! (Of course, the lyrics to "I Am a Tangerine" were closer to "Yummy Yummy Yummy" than they were to "Judy in Disguise," so that song wouldn't have figured into the equation when considering what an awful album artist Tommy James was, amirite?)

And I interpreted the line about the lyrics to "Judy in Disguise" as saying that at least they weren't as bad as "Yummy Yummy Yummy," but yes MAYBE I WAS WRONG.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 17 June 2006 16:27 (nineteen years ago)

"Writing about Tommy James and the Shondells as if they were as epistemologically significant as the Beatles...in the late '60s, to rock fans...was a...heinous, heretical violation." - Greil Marcus

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 17 June 2006 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

OK haha the Crimson and Clover album didn't come out until the following year - that joke's on me. (Was the Mony Mony album good?)

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 17 June 2006 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

Crimson and Clover and Cellophane and Symphony are both good albums.

The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Saturday, 17 June 2006 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

Well, the thing about *that* kind of rockism (if it is that) is that, uhm, I think it's ok. I mean, it'd be lame to say "Tommy James sucked 'cos he had bad albums" or "this Tommy James single is good, but it's not worth discussing because he has bad albums", but to mention someone having bad albums in an *album review*, that I think is ok. I mean, it's just a heads-up, innit? This band has released a pretty good album in a sub-genre that isn't known for having those.

Tangent: I often wonder about that whole 60's ultra-rockist prog-loving, lyrics-focused, album-orientated school of rock criticism, because it seems to me that its foremost representatives aren't very canonised today. I mean, all the big guns of the 60's and 70's - Meltzer, Marcus, Christgau, Dave Marsh, Lester Bangs - pretty much position themselves *against* this sort of ideology, in one way or another. And sure much of that might just be revisionism, but what vintage stuff of theirs I've read doesn't seem to confirm that.

Anyway, I'm sure Tommy James has lovely albums! I've never heard a track by him I didn't like.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 17 June 2006 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

"One does not expect a good album from a John Fred. Even the Box Tops, a Top-40 group that has never released a second-rate single, make terrible albums, and the Tommy Jameses are much worse."

Doesn't there seem to be some sort of hierarchy here? I mean, he's saying the Box Tops and Tommy James both have album filler, but Tommy James belongs to "the Tommy Jameses" group of bands whose albums - with their filler - are not just terrible but much worse than terrible.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 17 June 2006 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

Anybody who likes the quirky intense blue-eyed rock-soul thang, a la Butch Hornsby, in xpost xxuxx's description, should check out Eddie Hinton. (Edd, did No Dep ever run your review of the Mighty Field Of Vision collection?) Vol. 3 of his demos do mostly just sound like demos, despite being good songs, well-arranged, but much better to start with Vols. 1 and 2, Dear Yall and Playin Around: kind of Sir Douglas (even Mouse and the Traps, at times!), if he were hardcore late 60s-to early 70s Muscle Shoals. Main weakness is, re the vocal impulses implied by those comparisons, he does tend to shred his throat sometimes, but that impulsiveness adds a lot, and he's winsome-yet-solid songwriter, arranger, keybist, guitarist, even drummer, on occasion. Sometimes he did tighten up the tonsils too much on finished product, so I'd start with Dear Yall and Playin' Around (or Mighty Field Of Vision, which has a lot of the same tracks, and some others I haven't heard).

don (dow), Saturday, 17 June 2006 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

Doesn't there seem to be some sort of hierarchy here? I mean, he's saying the Box Tops and Tommy James both have album filler, but Tommy James belongs to "the Tommy Jameses" group of bands whose albums - with their filler - are not just terrible but much worse than terrible.

Well, he's certainly saying that The Box Top's albums, though bad, are still better than those by Tommy James, sure. And the use of "even" in regards to the Box Tops, who have "never released a second-rate single", does seem to imply that the Box Tops are the cream of the crop of that sort of sub-genre, which means he probably thinks they're better than Tommy James in general, yeah (though that doesn't necessairly imply that he thinks Tommy James is worthless.) I still see no need to frame all this into terms like "realness" and "authenticty", which Christgau never really used in that review. I mean, let's face it, pre-Big Star, rock snobs probably hated the Box Tops and Tommy James in equal amounts.

Boy, parsing Robert Christgau's sentences just never gets old, does it?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 17 June 2006 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

I'm only speculating about the realness and authenticity parameters of the argument. : )

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 17 June 2006 19:09 (nineteen years ago)

Judee in da woods (with glasses)

http://www.stupidlyhappy.com/archives/judee%20sill.jpg

timmy tannin (pompous), Saturday, 17 June 2006 21:09 (nineteen years ago)


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