Christgau on Sonic Youth

All of which I find pretty exhilarating. Of course, you may not. When Murray Street came out in 2002, non-old Amy Phillips notoriously asserted in this very newspaper that since Sonic Youth hadn't made a good album since (1995's) Washing Machine, they should break up already. Who's to say her opinion isn't worth as much as mine? Me? Well, yeah. One concept the non-old have trouble getting their minds around is the difference between taste and judgment. It's fine not to like almost anything, except maybe Al Green. That's taste, yours to do with as you please, critical deployment included. By comparison, judgment requires serious psychological calisthenics. But the fact that objectivity only comes naturally in math doesn't mean it can't be approximated in art.

Sonic Youth new album "Rather Ripped"

Sonic Youth [Neutral EP, 1982]
You may not think Glenn Branca's proteges are a rock and roll band, but after all, why else would they essay a lyric like "Fucking youth/Working youth"? At their worst they sound like Polyrock mainlining metronome, at their best like one of Branca's early drafts. The best never last long enough. Not for nothing is the sonic grown-up so attached to phony grandeur. C
Confusion Is Sex [Neutral, 1983]
Back in 1970 I played Max Kozloff, a Cal Arts colleague of distinctly Yurrupean musical tastes, some singles I thought instructive--"Brown Eyed Girl," "California Earthquake," "Neanderthal Man," like that. The one he flipped for was "I Wanna Be Your Dog." So if you think the sonic cover here proves they're rockers at heart, you have a fine art critic on your side. The dull rock critic wants to mention that the cover doesn't rock too good. Of course, neither did King Crimson a lot of the time. C+

Kill Yr. Idols [Zensor EP, 1983]
Idolization is for rock stars, even rock stars manqué like these impotent bohos--critics just want a little respect. So if it's not too hypersensitive of me, I wasn't flattered to hear my name pronounced right, not on this particular title track--not pleased to note that, though "Brother James" is a dandy Glenn Branca tribute and one of the tracks lifted directly from Confusion Is Sex is a lot niftier than the other track lifted directly from Confusion Is Sex, the title cut's most likely to appeal to suckers for rock and roll as opposed to suckers for boho posers. Boho posers just shoot off their mouths a lot. With rock-and-rollers you never know. B-

amy phillips hates their later stuff

go figure
http://www.dogsinthenews.com/issues/0210/pictures/bowling_shrug230.jpg

there's some obvious truth in this -- too obvious, i mean duh -- but this kind of line is almost always trotted out defensively as a screen for subjectivity. "there is subjective truth and objective truth, and now i'm going to tell you some OBJECTIVE TRUTH." and the objective truth is that sonic youth is the best band in the universe, NO MATTER WHAT YOU OR AMY PHILLIPS THINKS. ho-hum.

it's a nice record. but since proving sonic youth's greatness doesn't mean anything to me, i don't feel compelled to give it much more than an appreciative shrug. which, obviously, is a lapse in judgment.

Also, approximation of objectivity is not objectivity. Brush up on your Raymond Williams, grandad.

No, a wildly successful ILM thread will likely only get to 1000 posts, it will get derailed into a semi-hilarious macro thread 1/3 of the way through it and will have the appearance of at least one irate indie-rocker who felt compelled to jump in and defend his band at some point. Then, and only then, does it earn a place alongside the other classics.

kill yr. idols
sonic death
it's the end of the world
and confusion is sex

kill yr. idols
sonic death
it's the end of the world
and confusion is sex

You fucking EARN it first, you absurd Alzheimer's free pass you.

But actually, it's not so surprising that he should harp on about God and objectivity so much to back up his subjective takes. You really can't subscribe to the idea that there are objective aesthetic judgements without making an appeal, finally, to God. And people who believe in God are subjectivists in objectivists' clothing. Who says so? God does, trust me.

there's some obvious truth in this -- too obvious, i mean duh -- but this kind of line is almost always trotted out defensively as a screen for subjectivity. "there is subjective truth and objective truth, and now i'm going to tell you some OBJECTIVE TRUTH." and the objective truth is that sonic youth is the best band in the universe, NO MATTER WHAT YOU OR AMY PHILLIPS THINKS. ho-hum.

But he never says this at all. He really loves Sonic Nurse and the new record, and according to him the band is on a hot streak; it doesn't mean they're the greatest band in the universe.

HAHA "BORING OR NOT"

Antirockism had no way of accounting for these bands, and now in effect claims that they never happened. After all, who did they reach? Sloppy American college boys and similar pretentious punters--not real people (or classy ones, either). I'm exaggerating, of course, although I do recall a U.K. Los Lobos review that took offense at their flannel-covered bellies. And certainly it's true that Amerindie garage orthodoxy, which is at least as narrow-minded as any more wittingly trendy musical ethos, seems close to the end of its rope. But Wild Gift and How Will the Wolf Survive? and Hard Line and Metal Circus and Let It Be remain. They impinged on me then, and they impinge on me now--I know, because I replayed every one while making this a book I can vouch for. For me, they hold up, stand the test of time, reveal new shades of meaning--all that stuff good art was supposed to do back in the modernist era. Rock lives.

...

That's why the worst flatline of our president's Oval Office chat the night of the attack came when he avoided the King James version of the 23rd Psalm for one of the Business Writing 1 translations that palliate well-heeled fundamentalism all over suburbia. "The folks who did this" was mind-boggling enough. But how could even George W. have imagined that "You are with me" would get anyone's heart beating like "Thou art with me"? Just when we needed a jolt of moral certitude, the glad-handing frat boy grayed out like the policy wonk we wish he was. We vernacular fans can see the connection between "the folks who did this" and the hard-wired rootsiness that afflicts a gamut of fools from Pete Seeger to Lee Greenwood, just as we can connect "You are with me" to L.A./Stockholm megapop. And I hope we sense that in this time of unprecedented trouble the long-impacted grandeur of "Thou art with me" is the kind of vernacular we need. As a Bible-believing Christian turned convinced atheist, I never miss a chance to shout that rock and roll is secular music. But that hardly means it doesn't have religious sources or express religious feelings. I know, religious feelings got us into this hell. And I can now guarantee that there are atheists in the valley of the shadow of death. I doubt there was anyone without religious feelings last week. Death is every atheist's window on the eternal.

I hadn't yet pinned this down Tuesday when I finished retrieving my daughter from school in Queens. But I already knew I wanted to begin my next show on the Voice's fledgling Web radio station with the atheist's hymn: from "God is a concept by which we measure our pain" to "I don't believe in . . . ," John Lennon's "God" summed up a mood, and for Carola and me that was reality. Soon I figured out where I'd end, too: with Sufi shaikh and Istanbul medical professor Orüj Güvenç chanting "Bismillah ah-Rahman," one of the names of God. But though devising a playlist was the only way I could think of to pretend I had a use in the world without confronting my own inanity, finding the right songs was a lot harder than it was during the attack's geopolitical cause and CNN forerunner, the Gulf War. "What's Going On" seemed way corny, and "From a Distance," unfortunately, was no longer an apposite metaphor. This was a time for some of the rage music that I love as art and rarely need in life. Punk for sure, "Hate and War," but before I even got there I was on the only metal band I care for deep down, Motorhead.That's why the worst flatline of our president's Oval Office chat the night of the attack came when he avoided the King James version of the 23rd Psalm for one of the Business Writing 1 translations that palliate well-heeled fundamentalism all over suburbia. "The folks who did this" was mind-boggling enough. But how could even George W. have imagined that "You are with me" would get anyone's heart beating like "Thou art with me"? Just when we needed a jolt of moral certitude, the glad-handing frat boy grayed out like the policy wonk we wish he was. We vernacular fans can see the connection between "the folks who did this" and the hard-wired rootsiness that afflicts a gamut of fools from Pete Seeger to Lee Greenwood, just as we can connect "You are with me" to L.A./Stockholm megapop. And I hope we sense that in this time of unprecedented trouble the long-impacted grandeur of "Thou art with me" is the kind of vernacular we need. As a Bible-believing Christian turned convinced atheist, I never miss a chance to shout that rock and roll is secular music. But that hardly means it doesn't have religious sources or express religious feelings. I know, religious feelings got us into this hell. And I can now guarantee that there are atheists in the valley of the shadow of death. I doubt there was anyone without religious feelings last week. Death is every atheist's window on the eternal.

I hadn't yet pinned this down Tuesday when I finished retrieving my daughter from school in Queens. But I already knew I wanted to begin my next show on the Voice's fledgling Web radio station with the atheist's hymn: from "God is a concept by which we measure our pain" to "I don't believe in . . . ," John Lennon's "God" summed up a mood, and for Carola and me that was reality. Soon I figured out where I'd end, too: with Sufi shaikh and Istanbul medical professor Orüj Güvenç chanting "Bismillah ah-Rahman," one of the names of God. But though devising a playlist was the only way I could think of to pretend I had a use in the world without confronting my own inanity, finding the right songs was a lot harder than it was during the attack's geopolitical cause and CNN forerunner, the Gulf War. "What's Going On" seemed way corny, and "From a Distance," unfortunately, was no longer an apposite metaphor. This was a time for some of the rage music that I love as art and rarely need in life. Punk for sure, "Hate and War," but before I even got there I was on the only metal band I care for deep down, Motorhead.

ugh, don't i know it. an entire country of joyless drips.

maybe. people love the jolly mafia and their lighthearted antics.

Guilt is possibly the only thing that could save America. Political guilt, I mean, not the kind that makes entertainers pretend they aren't entertainers.

http://www.1199seiu.org/

As far as the "consensus" bit goes, he's just saying that your aesthetic judgement can be sharpened if you take into account what others (in SY's case, mostly critics, cause that's who likes 'em) have said.

And the first graf--including the "spiritual detriment" bit--feels purposely over the top, like "If some kid can say SY suck, I'm entitled to say they're the most awesomest thing in existence."

I wish he'd done the whole thing a little more gracefully, but it's a pretty clear statement of how he thinks criticism can work.

alfred said:

But he never says this at all. He really loves Sonic Nurse and the new record, and according to him the band is on a hot streak; it doesn't mean they're the greatest band in the universe.

christgau said:

So let me put it this way: Sonic Youth are the best band in the universe, and if you can't get behind that, that's your problem.

and if he ain't employing the good-ol' hyperbole stick in declaring sonic youth the best band in the universe than he's just being silly, 'cuz they're not.

no

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while both maybe true, i still loves me some "Incinerate"!!!
and fer the rekkid, "the Adversary" is also pretty awe inspiring...

"The new Obie Trice album has a song about the time he cried when his gay uncle died, the rest is the usual bullshit...Choice Cut?" "gurgle...*lifts thumb*"

I've never quite understood his huge hang-up w/r/t pretentiousness, self-indulgence, and art-wankery, considering he's such a big Pink Floyd fan.

Also: "the beautiful, serpentine guitar lines of 'The Empty Page' intertwined like copulating eels." Mmmm.