Two questions about Public Enemy

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I was thinking about how "classic or dud" questions never involve hip-hop, but then I figured everyone agreed that PE are classic. So...

1) I'm interested in what everyone thinks of PE's legacy now. It seems like they had a lot more influence on white rock (Rage Against the Machine, etc.) than they have hip-hop. Their dense sound is nowhere to be found in current hip-hop, and the political lyrics are relegated to the underground. Why is that?

2) What do you think of PE's stuff since Apocalypse '91? At what point did you lose interest?

Mark Richardson, Sunday, 1 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I've never really thought about question # 1, but I just figure that hip hop moves fast, and dense-sounding political seriousness just ain't where it's at right now, and that it might very well resurface in a different guise eventually.

# 2 - I quite like what they do up to this day - He Got Game is probably my 2nd fave PE album, and even though they will never be innovators again, and their sound will never be as intense or feel as necessary, their music is still lively and catchy - it's not the latest new thing, but I don't hear a big drop-off in entertainment value in their songs at all.

Patrick, Sunday, 1 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

From what little I've heard: I thought there was something touchingly pathetic about "Are You Gonna Go Our Way", but I liked "Resurrection" and "Swindler's Lust". I don't think PE's political content has vanished forever from mainstream hip-hop; it's more in abeyance.

Robin Carmody, Sunday, 1 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

1) public enemy's legacy has offered more than 'dense' sound or bullshit politicism. it's not fair to reduce them to that. their entire archetype changed music forever, and while the 'sound' of public enemy doesn't seem to exist in current hiphop, it's a reference point to all modern music. anyway, if you're talking about influences, the coup have made a career of copying them circa apocalypse '91, and don't get me wrong, i love the coup and i think they've expanded on that role wonderfully, but the imitation is evident.

2) i had a theory once that if chuck d. had died right before the release of apocalypse '91 pe would be rightfully considered the greatest band of all time. they've been watered down since (although still releasing decent albums) and are pretty much diluted to the level of unimportance. i was actually excited about the rumours that chuck would be replacing the lead singer of rage against the machine because it would directly expose a generation of rock fans to one of the greatest mcs of all time and would divert him from his own shitty rap- rock band.

to sum it all up: 1) you don't want a legion of pale pe imitators; their influence is best felt indirectly. and 2) they're okay but not great. 'he got game' was heralded as a return to form, but i didn't like it much. isn't attacking sneaker companies a little hypocritical considering chuck's nike endorsement a while back?

ethan, Sunday, 1 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

While we're sort of on the subject, does anyone have / is there a web address for Harry Allen's RhythmCultural Institute?

DG, Sunday, 1 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

What a sadly neglected thread!

1) I dont know - I think PE's opening up of the hip-hop soundboard to density and noise hasn't completely gone away. You can hear echoes of it in the thick production on Stankonia, in all the quite harsh noises you get on 'ravey' hip-hop tracks. The big production schools that don't seem influenced by it are the J5 end of undie rap (which fairly much defines itself as pre-Bomb Squad in influence as I understand it); Dre's laidback and comical productions (which are too pop for the PE treatment); and the Timbaland school of micro-beat stuff (which is too interesting to benefit). So I think there is an influence still and it will return.

2) I thought "Give It Up" was a terrific single, "He Got Game" was a fun pop single....but the rest of Muse-Sick didn't do anything for me and I've not heard the '99 album. I find Apocalypse 91 a good deal less compelling than the previous records, even.

Tom, Thursday, 5 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

1) i think p.e. are very similar to my bloody valentine in that, musically at least, they seemed to influence very few artists within the genre. their legacy, again musically, is that of the "sound collage," and their disciples seem to be people like the chemical brothers and dj shadow, et. al. they've probably inspired many musicians but few have tried to follow in their footsteps.

lyrically and oft-times musically, i think that the goodie mob are the p.e. of the south, and i'd agree that outkast also have their occasional p.e. moments. i'm hard-pressed to think of anyone else, though. i think that they played an important part in defining what was and what could be hip-hop music by dint of their sound. whereas many were content to loop a james brown track ad infinitum, the bomb squad mixed things up and used whatever sounds they could find to build a track. so i suppose that for any artist since who's tried to sonically expand the horizons of rap, they owe a serious debt to p.e.

2) the further they got away from nations, up to a point of course, the more i loved the sound, and the best tracks on apocalypse, like "shut 'em down," "by the time i get to arizona," and "can't truss it," represent their pinnacle musically. unfortunately, the further they've gotten from nations, the more inconsistent and incoherent the message and records became. "give it up," as tom says, was a fine single, and i remember it oddly getting a lot of mtv support. "he got game" was a great pop moment, but i haven't really enjoyed an album of theirs since. perhaps it's time for chuck d. to retire the speaking circuit for good.

fred solinger, Thursday, 5 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

The question at the top of this thread says 'I figured everyone agreed that PE are classic'.

I'm afraid not. I think that Public Enemy are revolting and worthless.

the pinefox, Sunday, 15 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm not being funny, but is there a chance that someone is impersonating the pinefox? That 'revolting and worthless' comment doesn't ring true somehow. Or is he enjoying his attempts at raising the ire of certain factions more than I imagined? If it is you Joe, stop it at once.

Nick, Sunday, 15 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Oh dear. Once a hardcore Moz fan, always a hardcore Moz fan ...

(unless that is a pseudo-Pinefox).

Robin Carmody, Sunday, 15 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Now I think of it it might well be because of the extra letter in the email address, pinerfox@hotmail.com.

Robin Carmody, Sunday, 15 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Sorry about the mistype. I happen to think that Public Enemy are, from my POV, r and w. Others feel differently. Fair enough. I was disagreeing on a point of fact, ie a consensus which was claimed to exist and doesn't. People, one or two of whom I am very fond of, will no doubt go on talking about PE for as long as they want, and nothing I say or don't say will stop them, or start them for that matter.

If you think my comments are extreme, look at some of the bile poured on Lloyd Cole over on that thread; or at any number of other comments - whether positive or negative - anywhere on this forum, many of which are equally 'subjective', 'emotional', 'matters of taste', etc etc.

the pinefox, Monday, 16 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Sorry, Pinefox. It's the Earnest White Middle-Class Student (capital letters) in me.

Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link


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